Phonetics' Question Regarding the Production of the 'r' sound in Polish.

Hello everyone.

I have several questions regarding the production of the 'r' sound in Polish.

Having read the archived discussion on the issue, as well as consulted some other sources (and there are very few sources on Polish phonetics, unfortunately), I see that there is a disagreement on whether the 'r' is meant to be rolled or tapped.

If the 'r' is to be rolled, then I understand that the manner of articulation should be as follows:
The back of the tongue needs to be stiff, while the front remains relaxed. The sound is then produced by air being exhaled through the mouth.

When I try to roll the 'r', it sounds like a softer version of the Spanish rolled 'r', but when I try to do pronounce it that way, it comes out exaggerated.

So, how do I position my tongue to produce this sound? Where exactly does the tip of the tongue sit? Loosely between the teeth, behind the teeth, on the palate (closer to, or farther away from the teeth?).

If, on the other hand, I try to tap the 'r', it has no vibrato whatsoever and is sometimes difficult to pronounce in certain words and sound combinations (especially when a word ends with an 'r' and is followed by one beginning with the same sound).

Please, if anyone could help me out with this, I would be infinitely grateful.
Thanks,
Stan D.

hi Stanley - Polish r is definitely a trill but quite a short one (with around three not very pronounced taps) - if you are trying to pronounce it the Spanish way (very trilled) it sounds unnatural in Polish - those Poles who can pronounce the trill can pronounce the R's the Spanish way but they don't normally do so in Polish - hope that helps

btw I had problems with the R sound myself as a kid up to about 6 years of age

oh well - and I have trouble getting around to pronounce R as a single tap (which some languages require)

Hey gumishu. Thanks for the clarification. I suspected this is probably the case. Apparently I struggle to produce a shorter trill. Is weaker emphasis the only difference here, or is the sound actually produced in a slightly different manner (dental as opposed to alveolar, etc.?)

Thanks again,
Stan D.

hmm I am able to pronounce a trill with my mouth open so the tongue doesn't touch either the teeth or alveolar bridge but from my observation the tongue should be rather in a dental than alveolar position to pronounce R the Polish way

@gumishu

Fantastic, I've just had a breakthrough thanks to you! Turns out I unnecessarily pressed the tip of my tongue against the bridge/teeth.

I can't thank you enough!

As I mentioned before, the Polish trilled or "flap" -r-sound is the ONLY acknowledged standard, in most dialects I've encountered as well. Donald Tusk DOES need a speech pathologistLOL

If a Pole hears another Polish speaker (not necessarily a native) pronounce a uvular aka French 'r', they'll probably think that indeed the other person is a foreigner, either French or German:-)

that's an exaggaration - most Polish people are aware of the fact that some of us Poles have problems with pronouncing trilled R's

This is called 'speech impediment'. Speech impediments are quite common (but not that common), so everyone in Poland has had at least several occasions to hear Polish people with the impediment re trilled 'r'.

On the other hand, I wonder what kind of speech impediment Jarosław Kaczyński has when pronouncing the -ą ending improperly. In most cases he says -om rather than -ą. Any thoughts?

Former US-President W aka "Bush '41", typically mispronounced "nuclear" as "nucULER". This though is syllabic rather than phonetic, therefore on second thought, not an applicable analogy.

:-)