Mam silnego kaca! Why is this genitive/dopełniacz?

Mam silnego kaca! Why is this genitive/dopełniacz? Maybe I am mistaken?

it's just that genetive and accusative are the same for some nouns - all virile masculine nouns and a whole group of other masculine nouns (but only in singular - among them are all masculine living things (the gender of noun matters not the actual gender))

One sometimers hears: 'Daj młotka!' Is that OK?

sure it is ok - because it creates no ambiguity - it;s actualy broadening of virile noun type of declination onto other masculine nouns

Thanks Gumishu.

There is a list on page 78 of this

polish.slavic.pitt.edu/grammar.pdf

You can also add "iPhone" and "email" !

Super dzięki.

Przy okazji - wydaje nam się, czy ta dziewczyna ma zeza?

To be honest I still don't get it, I don't understand the gramatical reason.

Mam kota. Kot is a living thing and it is a masculine noun, even if the cat itself is feminine, I still use: Mam kota.

Pomysł, not a living thing.
Mam pomysł.

Zez is not a living thing.
Mam zeza. If I was to follow the pomysł example it should be Mam zez.



I found Mila Kunis pic when searching for zez etc.

I don't why buy most health related masculine nouns behave like virile masculine nouns. Mam raka (tfu, tfu), mam mięsaka, mam syfa, mam tluszczaka, mam guza, mam siniaka..... but mam odcisk, mam łupież, mam zarost. Perhaps somebody smart here can explain it.

But to confuse you even more: mam Mercedesa, mam Fiata, mam Volkswagena ( I guess some people think a car is a living thing..lol).
Also some mushrooms (why? , I have no clue) Znalazłam prawdziwka, znalazłam podgrzybka, maślaka.

Masz papierosa? Tak, mam papierosa.

Zatańczymy poloneza, a moze walca lub foxtrota?

I think I confused you enough. You are welcome :)

Thanks, it is good to know that there are many more of these nouns out there. I am sure that I will come across it again and come back to it.

I am not sure about the rest of Poland but in Krakow we don`t say silnego - strong. It sounds very unusual to me.

Some foods: jem banana, pomidora, arbuza, kotleta, pączka.

But: jem tort, szaszłyk. Torta and szaszłyka sound like bad, sloppy language.

I really can't tell you why. It might have something to do with declination patterns. I think Gumishu had some theory on it once.

I can't remember now where I got it, but it is probably from the internet. Thanks.


You must be a native speaker of Polish if you know how it should be but not the grammar. For me it is the same with English, I know how it should be but not why. :-) When I am "learning" Polish I often have to learn a little bit about English grammar also.

Thanks Strzyga.

Yes, it is there, but almost all links direct you to a disco polo song by MC Makler. They used silnego to get a rhyme for browara zimnego - cold brew.



Normally you would say: straszny, potworny, potężny, zajebiście mocny. These expressions are much stronger than silny for a good reason - unless the hangover is splitting and rips your head into pieces, it is useless for Poles to talk about it - waste of time.

PS. BTW, a nice song. :):):):):):)

Thanks Pawian, the cats are nice.

Yes, isn`t it? :):):):)

I forgot about one collocation: ogromny - immense.

In Lublin it sounds ok...


oh yes, that helps a lot. at least the basic knowledge of grammatical categories. people who don't know anything about grammar of any language struggle a lot more and have to do double work.

still, the grammar for native speakers is different than for foreign learners. different scope. I'd probably go crazy if I had to learn all the declension patterns of Polish by heart, from a book. I gave up on German when I was supposed to learn the article + adjective + noun declension patterns :)

Thanks for reminding me. I have to visit this beautiful Polish city at last.

Maybe it's just an exception like "Kupiłem Forda." or "Zamów mi shake'a". It's language after all and is full of exceptions.

Strzyga dear, you ain't seen nothin' 'till you've tried Icelandic:-)

At least among extant European languages, it's considered by linguists to be even tougher than Basque, Welsh or Lithuanian, precisely because of its inlfectional exceptions and quixotic vowel mutations, even within the same declension pattern and noun class!!!!

Hi Patrick, as a native speaker you know when to use Forda and not Ford because it just sounds right but a learner would need a rule or be told that there is no rule. Thanks anyway.


Yes I struggle because of this.

I suppose so. but no, I'm not aspiring to study Icelandic, at least not in this lifetime, thank you very much. I've got enough challenges in my life as it is.

although I admit I have a soft spot for Welsh. maybe when I'm eighty-something and have lots of time on my hands. then I'm going to be sitting in a corner mumbling to myself something reminiscent of these llachllqellwach sounds. at this age, you're allowed to go a little crazy :)


just to get it straight, the car makes should not be capitalized in Polish. it's ford, mercedes, toyota.

Thanks.

I'm not a native speaker, but my Polish Polish teacher in the States said that cars take genitive. If I were a native speaker, I wouldn't have mead the error that strzyga pointed out.

A Polish friend in Poland said that while ordering food genitive is also used, although I don't know if I believe that. She gave me, however, the example of "Zamow mi shake'a". Maybe it's just genitive for fast food restaurants. :)

Many Poles make this error too, treating the makes as proper names. Well they're not.


Ordering or eating, it doesn't matter, it's just that some foods take the genitive and some don't. Zamów mi shake'a, hamburgera, loda, kebaba, drinka, kurczaka, but: zamów mi sok, napój, barszczyk. Anyway, uncountable nouns don't take Genitive.

In this case, as in cases listed in previous posts we use partial genitive (dopełniacz cząstkowy).
Partial genitive is used when you talk about indefinite part of a whole or about something abstract.
When you talk about something definite and considered as a whole, you use accusative.

The general rule I use is if something is inanimate and doesn't sound Polish, then conjugate.

Chce drink'a, kebab'a, hamburger'a, SMS'a, etc.

It doesn't explain things like pomidora but more often than not, non-Polish words are conjugated like this.

I always got a kick out of certain animate conjugations like "kot" and "pies". You conjugate "kot" with "Mam kota" or "pies" with "Mam psa", but once you pluralise it, it no longer gets conjugated:

"Mam psy"

Bizarre how case is sometimes dependent on quantity.

I must read more about this but it looks like the answer.
Thanks alligator.

It is conjugated. Psy is in accusative.

there's no change, whether you say, "Mam psy" or "To sa psy". it's the plural form of "pies" in both cases.

there's a declension with the singular form, pies becomes psa: "Mam jednego psa", but "Mam dwa psy". no declension in the plural form.

Because accusative of virile (męskożywotny) singular noun takes the form of genetive.


Accusative of virile plural noun takes form of nominative. It is declinated.
...just another example of how easy Polish language is...