Help with idiomatic translation ...

@DominicB
Do you know why Polish dywan (rug/carpet) has a diffferent meaning to English 'divan'. The latter meaning is used in diffferent languages actually.

It's called "semantic drift" ("dryf semantyczny"). The meaning of words changes over time, especially when words are borrowed by one language from another. That's why false friends exist between languages, like prezerwatywa and preservative, or poligon and polygon, or szalet and chalet. Or my favorite, Polish talon and English talon.

That is weird. In this case Polish is the odd language out, everybody else sits on a divan. Some years ago I read something that untangled the history of the word but I forget the details.

In Sumerian, it originally meant a clay tablet, the kind you see cuneiform written on. Then it meant a list of soldiers written on such a tablet. Then a list of government officials. Then a royal court. Then a throne room. Then a raised platform or bench along the walls of the throne room. Polish got it in the sense of carpet that covers such a platform.

@kaprys

This is an excellent example of semantic drift.

Remember that in much of the world, people sit and sleep on carpets.


If you need to, and doubtless you did. Most people reading knew already.

@Wulkan,

Like so much Polish word stock.

What is a Polish 'stock'?

"stock" = zrodlo aka source or origin

:-)

przelom.pl/14403-o-dywanie-kobiercu-i-tapczanie.html

An article about dywan/kobierzec/tapczan in the link above - when I'm not being lazy ...
As for the semantic drift, would English 'tart' apply? From a sort of cake, through a sweet girl to .... well ...

..even a *****/"kurwa", at least in the UK.

From French/late Latin and perhaps somewhere before, a sweet and decorated thing, first edible, then female.

In English there are some words (togs, gadger, cushty, charver/chav, pal) from Romany - I wonder if there are many expressions in Polish that come from Romany languages.

There's also mush, in English from Romany and from a Slavonic root before that. I wonder if it'll one day come full circle...

@jon357
And do these come from Angloromani? I believe there are different dialects within the Romani language.
Also English travellers seem different from Polish Romani.
As for borrowings from their language into Polish, I don't know. They have been living here for centuries so there might be some. I tried googling them but didn't find anything.

I've been wondering about that for years and have never come across even a single example of a true loan word from Romany into Polish.

Perhaps because there are not many non-Romani people who speak the language and Romani people are in fact bilingual doing great in Polish and speaking Romani to other Romani only.

Yes, they do.

I do know a couple of Poles without gypsy roots who speak a little of a Roma language, however they are people who've always lived close to Roma and grown up near them.

Pretty sure that only the first (if it means clothes) and last would be widely understood in the US, chav might be understood by some but not the majority I think.

I think it's interesting that Romani in Poland usually speak to each other in Romani in public but in Hungary (where there are many more) they are more likely to use Hungarian with each other. I'm not sure why that's the case....

I used to know a Polish gypsy family ... in London. The woman was half-Polish but grew among Romani people. She told me about some of their customs.

Interestingly enough, they have two names: one formal and one Romani. They also speak Romani to one another - I've noticed that with that family but also here in shops etc.

All I know is that "gajo" means "foreigner" or "outsider" aka anyone who's not Romany.