Too many English words in the Polish language!

Magdalena, Boletus,
Mr Jędrzejko is the one insisting his own name shall not be declined ;-)

gumishu,

Jeżdżę do Rostocku, Berlina, Kolonii, Hamburga, Frankfurtu nad Menem czy nad Odrą, do Drezna też, czasem zahaczę o Kilonię, pracowałem w Duisburgu, z Hannoveru zamawiałem książki, w Ratyzbonie nie byłem, w Norymberdze jadłem lody; niemniej w Solingen nie udało mi się trafić na koncert, moja przyjaciółka spędziła młodość w Monachium, nie mam pojęcia jak dojechać do Bremerhaven, wystawę van Gogha oglądałem oczywiście w Essen.

Diabeł za tym nie trafi,

How about "widziałem pana Kowal" "idziemy do pana Kowal", "wypiłem setkę z panem Kowal"? Unfortunately, this happens more often than you think! ;-(


To mnie akurat nie martwi ;-)

ale do Cottbussu to chyba nie jeździsz :P :) tylko do Cottbuss

I really do not encounter such forms.


Do Chocieburza :P

a figę - do Chocieborza :P:)

Probably because you are not in constant contact with officialese and its numerous ugly offspring ;-)

Neither do I.

Although "panem Kowal" sounds bad but "panią Kowal" seems more acceptable because the -owa, and -ówna are no longer in popular use. My great aunt never married, and she used to carry with the -ówna form until in her sixties, when she decided to drop the ending - realizing that her age did not go well with the -ówna. Yes, she had to change her "dowód osobisty" as well. Does anyone recently heard the -żanka form? Barbara Ludwiżanka, for example?

Try declining Miss Kupaga in the obsolete form with -ówna ;-)

Below are some excerpts from D R Hofstadter's "Le Ton beau de Marot", section "Mixt Tongues, Blent Names", p. 320. They seem to be very relevant to the recent discussion here:


Then he goes on with few examples of such appropriation by French: "Michel-Ange", "Jean-Sébastien Bach", etc.


He goes on and on with some examples and then asks the question:


He then gives some examples and counterexamples taken from music world.


Just few thoughts for consideration.

Wrong. It's "Malá Noèní Hudba" in Czech.

Returing from a trip to Kraków, noone refers to having seen the 'Fabric Halls', but instead, to the Sukiennica, UNTRANSLATED!

Perhaps in less multicultural times turning foreign names into native ones was more necessary because unilingual populations wouldn't understand them otherwise. In English the Maid of Orleans is named Joan and even today English speakers would be loathe to call her Jeanne.

:-)
The author I quoted also says this:

i thought it was 'cloth market'

Fabric Halls sounds like a good translation, as fabric = płótno, tkanina

Wroclaw is right... it's known as a cloth market... fits best...

Well, it's known primarily as Sukiennice. :p

Have you also had time to visit the Kazimierz part of Kraków, the Jewish district?

Jak wiedziesz, że jestem żydowskiego pochodzenia, Antku? Nie, niestety jeszcze nie byłem w Krakowie, nawet w Kaziermierzym Dolnie LOL

I've heard these textile places are quite impressive.

"Skąd wiedziałeś, że jestem żydowskiego pochodzenia, Antku? Nie, niestety jeszcze nie byłem w Krakowie, nawet w Kazimierzu Dolnym" and you are doing better and better Lyzko, at least trying!

The story goes like this: University students had to attend a Military Academy, and there was one in Kraków in 1987. During my service there, I was doing my best to get as many leaves from the barracks as possible. So I was getting leave to see the dentist, or I was rewarded for "excellent military conduct" because I knew you had to be firm, barking right answers to army officers loudly, saluting smartly and so on when you were impressed to the Army ;-) Kraków is magnificent but I really admired the Kazimierz quarter. I was going there whenever possible. Having the Army hat on helped. No problem to find a head cover when entering the Synagogue or the cemetery there ;-)

You gonna see that!

"and you are doing better and better, Lyżko."

Nawzajem, Antku! Twój angielski coraz będzie lepiej-:) Kilka błędów w Twojim tekscie, ale małe!

Twój angielski będzie/jest coraz lepszy :) Jest kilka błędów w Twoim tekscie, ale są małe (mało znaczące).

Sorry, i had to add my few cents :)

I agree. My English professor called the English language a whore. Bestsellery is the worst I have seen so far. Next time you hear someone speak in Polglish like this, ask them what language they're speaking.

bestsellery (the basic form of the plural of bestseller) is a pretty word - and it has firmly grown into the Polish language - it is no polglish thus - there is no one-word Polish term to replace it (and even that two word term appears to be clumsy in use - so bestseller wins in every aspect)

My English won't be any better, Lyzko ;-) I can promise that to you! ;-)

I happened to visit Kraków, including Kazimierz, in a five day stay in March. In the English-language guide-book I had bought there, they have "Cloth Hall" for Sukiennice.


Kazimierz is quite an interesting place. A very good bookstore in one of the former synagogues there where I came across a few books [in Polish only, however] giving very moving accounts of Jewish life in provincial Poland before and during the WWII. My biggest surprise in Kazimierz, however, was when I saw a young Jewish priest in his very religious dress in one of the other synagogues, so authenticly Jewish that I thought the man had just come from Israel. But his unchallenged Polish - the moment he started to speak - and the number plates of his car undoubtedly gave him away as a Polish national living in Kraków. Another interesting place in Kazimierz to realize the continuing Jewish presence there is the Jewish cemetery on the outskirts of the district where you can find contemporary tombs with inscriptions both in Hebrew and Polish. Overall, there are approximately about 700 people of Jewish origin living in Kraków at the moment, most of them in the said district.

That's irrelevant because they treat it as a proper name. They certainly don't think of it as any kind of fabric hall or market anymore than they realize that the name Kraków comes from an old possessive form (Krak's (I forget if it's Krak's city/castle/compound or what)).

On a side note: the name Sukiennice was formed on the noun 'sukno' which doesn't exist in contemporary Polish and which - as far as I can say - meant exactly what the English 'cloth' means. The word has been 'preserved', however, in the word 'suknia', which has now a much narrower meaning, although it used to have a broader meaning before, as shown in the saying "Nie suknia [today we say: szata/ubiór] zdobi człowieka". The evolution has been therefore: sukno [cloth] --> suknia [dress in general sense] --> suknia/sukienka [skirt].

sukno may not be in every day use now but it is still a living word - maybe with a bit specialized meaning (or actually a couple specialized meanings - if you google it)