Dwa vs. dwie in Polish

Next time I see it, if I do, I will try and copy it, i.e. photocopy it and put it on the forum, if I would have the technical knowledge to do so, that is! It is rather a shame that I started this discussion in the first place, maybe it is simply boredom, as there are few interesting debates on this forum these days so we are limited to 'ku Warszawie!' No, I would not say that I am an expert at Polish grammar and would have to look up a lot these days as it is not a language I use any more, except ocassionally when I help people out in Tescos! I speak the language every day of my life but the written form is beyond me these days since my state examinations so many years ago. Rather a shame but as we say in Russian takawa zhyzn! Sorry to you mate.

lol.. 1850s..

Yes, indeed, you should have seen my with my horse, sword and helmet riding in against the cannon balls.

An interseting topic so I decided to bump it.


Yet another home grown lingustic comedy authored by one Englishman, nickenamed Michal.

Neither is a derivative or simplification of the other. The two languages have the same origin, ie. PIE and Old Slavonic. Both contain complexities not found in the other, but just to show how stupid your statement is, let's look at some basic fatcs:

Russian has 6 noun cases, Polish has 7 of them. I find it hard to see how adding more linguistic elements makes things simplified.

Now let's look at some conjugation. I will use the "~" symbol to denote elements which are NOT found in one language, while they are present in the other. If they are found in one of the languages, but not in the other, then I will use bold font to indicate this:

(to be, present tense)
Polish | Russian

byłem | был~~
byłeś | был~~
byvaś | была~
był | был
była | была
było | было

byliśmy | были~~~
byłyśmy | были~~~
byliście | были~~~~
byłyście | были~~~~
byli | были
były | были

Of course it is apparent that the Russian conjugation of the word in plural shows exactly the same word form for all persons, unlike in Polish where each person is conjugated differently, and further, it differs among genders.

So, for singular, there are 6 dsitinct forms of the verb "to be" in Polish, while in Russian there are only 4. For plural, in Polish we have 6 distinct forms of the same verb "to be", in Russian there is only one for for all persons and genders.

To sum up, in Polish there are 12 distinct forms of the verb, while in Russian there are only 5.

The conjugation of the same verb in the present tense in the Russian language is even more interesting. While there is exactly the same number of forms in both languages (есмь, еси, есть, есмы, есте, суть), in Russian (unlike in Polish) they are not always used. For instance:

Polish - On jest Rosjaninem - He is Russian
Russian - Oн ~ русский - He Russian ("is" not used).

Does that really look like Polish is a simplified form of Russian? Or is it that you recieved a simplified degree from Moscow University?


There must have been some new developments in the Russian language I probably missed. The last time I checked (about last week) it was "takaya zhyzn" (такая жизнь).


As for ku, it is an archaism and russicism, sometimes used in poetry, but general use is rare, although not completely absent. The expression 'ku Warszawie!' indicates someone who decided to learn Polish from some pre-WW I manuals.


I agree. There are no problems with any Polish words. The problem is when and how you sometimes use them.

darius, Michal speaks old country, "village" language. Perhaps, the same as his wife, hence the "ku". I believe he has no clue about russian language as such, besides learning some at school...There was a perfect "name" for him in the past in regards to the type of polish language that he uses... :)

Based on some "russian" phrases he utters sometimes here, he would is not able to put a correct russian sentence or two even if he'd know how to get the Cyrillic letters from Word...

You're the only one.


So you are a Ruski.

I would not have a clue how to get the Cyrillic letters from Word. Why should I? Do you know Russian?

he also uses sealing wax and a pigeon to send it ku polsce.

Is a knowledge of Russian a compulsory qualification for entry to the Forum?

As you write prubować its rich of you to talk about 'village language'.

It's not at all. But since you continue to describe Polish as some simplified/bastardized form of the Russian language then the assumption is that you have some knowledge of Russian, and that might further lead some to thinking that in fact you are capable of writing in Cyryllic on your PC.

How do you write in Russian on a PC?

Many ways.
One of the most convenient for those using US or UK keyboard is this:

auburn.edu/forlang/russian/cyrillic-setup/cyrillic.html

This is great stuff guys i just love this. But i dont come here often and i must praise michal on his last augusts fresh carrot. i have never heard it before. LOL LOL brilliant.

....because it is one of your pretend nationalities? lol

(don't care to comment on anything also)

I have no need to write in Russian and why should I? Does your friend 'The Lady In Red' write in Russian on a day to day basis? Why must I?

Polish is part of the Lechitic branch of west slavic languages and is most certainly NOT derived from Russian, or a simplified version of Russian.

Merged: The number 2

How many forms of the number two are there in Polish?

dwa, dwie, dwoch, dwoje, dwoma, dwiema, dwaj, dwojge,...? I know there are more.

I could be wrong on a couple of these. It's been 15 years since I've had a Polish grammar class.

Dwojga

dwaj, dwie, dwa, dwóch, dwom (dwóm), dwoma, dwiema, dwu, dwoje, dwojga, dwojgu, dwojgiem

So is it 12 or 13?

12 = dwanasty

13 = trzynasty itd... all end in '-nasty' up till 20 = dwa/dwudzieście (...'cuz 11-19 are so nasty, he-heLOL [groan])

dwUnasty


dwAdzieściA
:)

....woulda been my second guess, sorry 'bout that there

actually there are 23 but some are used for more then one gender/case:

dwa, dwie, dwaj, dwu, dwóch, dwom, dwóm, dwiema, dwoma, dwoje, dwojga, dwojgu, dwojgiem, dwójka, dwójkę, dwójki, dwójce, dwójką, dwójko, dwójek, dwójkom, dwójkami, dwójkach

CInek

In-freakin'-sane!

It is because he wanted to impress you; it looks no as bad when categorized into patterns (personal-masculine, live-masculine, feminine, etc.) and then sorted according to declension cases.

Here is something interesting...
Polish dialects: Declention of the numeral two.
Translated from: gwarypolskie.uw.edu.pl/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=161

Declension of the numeral two divides Poland into two areas - north and south. Dialects of the majority of Mazovia, Suwałki dialects, Chelmno-Dobrzyn, Kociewie (from Kościerzyna, Złotów, Kutno, Ciechanów to Ostrowia Mazowiecka, Grajewo, Suwałki) do not know the form of "dwie". Instead, they use the masculine numeral two "dwa", for example, "dwa kaczki, dwa krowy" (two ducks, two cows). Similar form appear in a small area in the south of Spisz, as a result of Slovak influence.

Old Polish division of forms: "dwa" for male, "dwie" for feminine and neuter forms is retained in the Silesian dialect and nearby slangs of adjacent Lesser Poland (west of Zywiec, Chrzanów and Lubliniec). Compare "dwa konie" (two horses), but "dwie kury" (two hens), and "dwie cielęta" (two calves). Other dialects are basically consistent with the general language overall, but they do not use the personal masculine forms "dwaj, obaj" (two, both). In Silesia there is personal masculine form "dwo": dwo bracio, dwo ludzie (two brothers, two people). They also do not use the collective numerals, replacing them with the main numerals, as in "dwa sąsiady", "cztery dzieci" (two neighbours, four children).

Just read two minutes ago a newspaper headline: "DWÓCH POLAKÓW ZGINE£O" (Two Poles die)
Presumably, these were collective Poles or individuals in a collective accident:-)

Go figure PolishLOL

I didn't. I just wanted to answer the question precisely.
And I agree that while not so difficult when explained properly, still a bit over-complicated.

Cinek.

I know, I forgot to append the smiley sign. Those of your past posts that I read were always very informative.

The news media uses the infinitive [die] when it really means they just died (past tense).
Once you use the person had died and others will miss them, you use the verb 'umiera' (singular) umierają (plural).
When writing the year of a person's death you use the verb 'zmarł (male) zmarła (female). np: Szopen zmarł w 1849 roku. (Chopin died in 1849).