Lets not forget that English is the global language and in many instances when it is spoken it will be non-native speakers speaking English with non-native speakers. Both of which will speak English in their own way and neither of which will speak 'perfect English'.
It's not about speaking English perfectly. It's about communication, as has quite rightly been pointed out.
..and what then is 'communication' other than the fluent, at the same time, accurate, transfer of ideas? Nobody's even speaking about 'perfection'!!! -:)
If person A from Albania can't effectively understand person B from Lithuania, is this real 'communication', or more accurately, 'approximation'?
Think of all that's being missed by the former definitions of communication, the more the very standards of language, in this case English language, become eroded?!
Is it really always a guest/host relationship or something else I'm missing?
Maybe they just resent being made to feel as if they were in the classroom? Unless of course this actually WAS a classroom situation, of course. Otherwise, I'd just let them be. To each their own. If someone doesn't actually ask to be corrected, why hound them? As long as I understand what they mean, I have absolutely no problem with someone's less-than-perfect English or whatever other language.
I haven't either. Why then do many foreign native speakers treat US in our own home turf as though it were a classroom?? Doesn't seem quite equitable now, does it?
I'm fine with people not knowing....so long as they realize it and are curious about knowing more, be it sports scores, philology or sex!!
..and what then is 'communication' other than the fluent, at the same time, accurate, transfer of ideas?
Communication doesn't demand fluency or accuracy. It just needs to be sufficient for meaning to be understood. The degree to which you need to be competent in a language depends on the complexity of the message you are trying to communicate.
If person A from Albania can't effectively understand person B from Lithuania, is this real 'communication', or more accurately, 'approximation'?
Approximation may well be sufficient to communicate your message :)
in this case English language, become eroded?!
Eroded or evolving?
If someone doesn't actually ask to be corrected, why hound them?
How peole react to uninvited correction depends on individual and cultural factors. I would be extremely sensative when offering uninvited corrections
I'm fine with people not knowing....so long as they realize it and are curious about knowing more,
But you have to accept they might not be curious. I am totally uninterested in sport, for example.
Why then do many foreign native speakers treat US in our own home turf as though it were a classroom??
Don't quite follow your drift there, I'm afraid. Do you mean tourists walk around NY or Houston and force the natives to explain the finer points of English grammar to them, or what? ;-)
...I mean simply, that we Yanks, educated as many of us are, are for whatever reason not encouraged to correct, say, French tourists visiting or travelling here in the States. The latter, on the other hand, take the greatest pride, often in belittling in the guise of 'correcting' our conserted efforts to speak good French. They may mangle our pronounciation so that it's no longer recognizable to it closest living realtives, we though, must hook every cedilla and sharpen every accent aigu.
Just attempting to even the score, that's all.
In addition, there are many out there who are seemingly immune to 'organic learning', that is learning by example. Either they psychologically resist the correct model, be it vocabulary, grammar, spelling whatnot, or they are just plain incapable of learning. I say then, "Face it!" I speak your language better than you speak mine! Give it a rest!" (....but without SAYING the last sentence, of course!)
Is language which is 'evolving' in a downward spiral, more like 'devolving', really doing nothing other than 'eroding'??
The latter, on the other hand, take the greatest pride, often in belittling in the guise of 'correcting' our conserted efforts to speak good French.
Oh that way you mean. Well, the easiest and most effective way out is to simply tell them you're not interested in their corrections. Unless, of course, you are. I don't think trying to "even the score" would prove constructive in any way. Some people want to learn by example, others don't. Some are overzealous in their linguistic crusading, some couldn't care less. Getting worked up over it won't help ;-)
People are a stubborn bunch and the more you try to change them for their own good, the more they resist.
that would be 'practising', since it is a verb ...
(sorry, but you really are so extraordinarily arrogant that it had to be pointed out ... if only for poor old Magda, whom you have given a very rough ride!)
oh, unless that bastardization of English which is 'American' has seen fit to remove the (essential) distinction between the noun 'practice' and verb 'practise' ... ? do enlighten me ; )
(and on my lack of capital letters ... it is a very conscious choice)
British and American, Pipeczko, have variant spellings, as I'm sure you're well aware. 'organize' vs. 'organise', 'practice'/'practise' etc...
Magda, a "rough ride"??? (Chuckle! -:) I hardly think so, considering the "arrogant" treatment we well-intentioned Yanks get abroad, every time we endeavor to point out a thing or two regarding English grammar, often so gleefully mutilated by others.
Wouldn't hurt us Americans either to instill a little more language pride into ourselves. If you send out pollution into the air, you'll get the same foul air right back in your face, kind of like blowing smoke at someone. Now that's not nice, is it??
"Arrogant"? I've been called a lot worse, thank you! Why yesterday, someone called me a Republican!
If you send out pollution into the air, you'll get the same foul air right back in your face, kind of like blowing smoke at someone. Now that's not nice, is it??
...and pray, were have I (metaphorically of course) "sent out pollution into the air"? I asked some questions, voiced some opinions, and got told off. That's how I see it. The questions remained unanswered.
Oj, Magdo, Magdo!! Bardzo mi przykro. I wasn't suggesting that you were sending out pollution. You misunderstood me. If anything, I was/am blaming the slovenliness of US education which trains its pupils so poorly in their mother language, not to even mention a foreign language, that the rest of the planet merrily follows our lead, unquestioningly mimicking everything we do or say, the way we dress (or undress, as the case may be) etc., with no sound yardstick of aethetic judgement, i.e. if it's from Hollywood, it's got to be good! -:)--:) LOL
Perhaps the Poles could stand a little more 'Hollyłódź', and a little less of the former.
No czujesz się lepiej, Magdo! Teraz wszystko porządku a wciągle porozmawiamy o język polski, o 'trudny język polski'. --:) LOL
Never take what I post personally. It's all done for effect. Actually, I rather enjoy the exchange. Imagine, sparing with a real Pole. The idea is quite appealing. don't you think?
Bodmer's 'The Loom of Language' (original German title: 'Sprachen der Welt') reports a mere -:) LOL one-hundred-and-seventy-nine multiple verb conjugations, i.e classes, in ancient Sanskrit!!!
That may be a record. I'm not sure though. Paging Mr. Guiness!
I'm a Polish native speaker and I must say that this language must be one of the hardest to master, as even within the polish society there are few who can call themselves "masters of the language".
But to be honest every language can be found difficult. I've learned english for quite some time now, and although reaching the basics is quite easy becoming a master in it is quite opposite - especially if you would take under consideration the more subtle "poetry english".
Marek: "No czujesz się lepiej, Magdo! Teraz wszystko porządku a wciągle porozmawiamy o język polski, o 'trudny język polski".
Quite a major mistake. A bit of humility would do you good.
Podziwiam tych wszystkich szalencow, ktorzy chca sie uczyc naszego pieknego polskiego! Moje doswiadczenia, a raczej doswiadczenia moich znajomych sa takie, ze idzie im to jak przyslowiowa krew z nosa, ale chca sie dalej uczyc :) Za co ich bardzo podziwiam :) No i jak tylko moge to cos tam zawsze im pomagam.
Anyways, good luck to you all with Polish! And please ask more questions here on the forum :) Don't hesitate!
