Biernik czy narzędnik (Accusative or Instrumental)

Poproszę małą kawe


Pije wodę mineralną z cytryną

Także "Proszę o (małą) kawę.", nieprawda?

-:)

I've used "Poproszę" though as well.

After o why don't you use locative. eg. mówimy o kawie.? We are talking about coffee.

As others have already told you, it should be wysokiego mężczyznę and polskie piwo, the rest is fine.
Mężczyzna ends with -a but is masculine (as kolega) and piwo ends with -o so is neuter.


Seems that's a different o, like there are two kinds of z.
In English that would be, relatively, for and about:
proszę / walczę / staram się o kawę, sukces, uczucie - I'm asking for / fighting for / striving for... - Acc.
mówimy / śpiewamy / piszemy / myślimy o kawie, matce, książce - we're talking/singing/writing/thinking about... - Instrumental

Thanks Strzyga. The examples were a great help, I understand now.

ofc it's Locative, not Instrumental, sorry, but you'd know it anyway :)

Thanks.

No prob. Cheers :)

.........pod choinką

or

.........pod choinkę

which is correct and why?

Co dostałeś/łaś pod choinkę? Looks like accusative

pod stołem is nardzędnik

after pod we use nardzędnik usually?

zacznę od końca:

pod takes narzędnik - pod kim, czym - pod stołem, pod choinką (pod choinką leżą prezenty) - when talking about location; something is located under something else. The question is where.

gospoda Pod Mocnym Aniołem - from a book by Jerzy Pilch
it's a traditional type of name for inns, pubs etc. - Pod Smokiem, Pod Jaszczurami, Pod Pijakiem, etc. (under the sign of...)

but: co dostałeś pod choinkę?
treat it as a fixed phrase, "for Christmas", the same as: co dostałeś na urodziny/na rocznicę ślubu/na Gwiazdkę/na zakończenie szkoły... etc.

then it's Accusative.

So, co dostałeś pod choinkę, catsoldier? :)

Nic ciekawego ałe bawiłem się dobrze. Nothing interesting but I had a good time.

Thanks for your help.

German also has those kinds of 'multi-rectional' prepositions, e.g. "unter", "auf" = "pod", "na" etc.. "Pod choinkę" to be honest didn't look that strange to me at first, since I simply figured, without translating, but rather, trying to think IN Polish, it makes all sorts of sense.

)))

Merged: Accusative or Instrumental Case

Can I ask anyone to check these answers to these:

I have to put the correct forms in the blanks... (my answers are in bold)

1. Kiedy czekam na autobus, czesto spotykam z nim. (Marek).
2. Lubie spotykac sie ze znajomymi i rozmawiac z mini o polityce. (znajomy - liczba mnoga).
3. Marek czesto chodzi do klubu i zawsze spotyka tam przyjacielami. (przyjaciel - liczba mnoga).
4. Teraz mam czas i szesto spotykam sie z przyjaciolami (przyjaciel - liczba mnoga).

In my book it has the folowing text in a box...

UWAGA!

nie planuje spotkania
spotykac + biernik
znajomych
kolegow
przyjaciol

planuje
spotkanie
spotykac sie + narzednik
ze znajomymi
z kolegami
z przyjaciolmi

What is this trying to tell me. Does it mean that if I plan to meet (in this example), I use verb + instrumental case. If I don't plan to meet I use verb + accusative? I'm puzzled. Can anyone give any examples...

spotykam go or spotykam się z nim


ok


przyjaciół


z przyjaciółmi (that one' a bit irregular)


One thing is that spotykać kogoś and spotykać się z kimś take two different cases - respectively, Acc and Instr.
Another is that negation changes the case into Gen.
widzę stół (Acc) - nie widzę stołu (Gen)
planuję spotkanie (Acc) - nie planuję spotkania (Gen)
jem jabłko (Acc) - nie jem jabłka (Gen)

Planuję spotkanie z Markiem - nie planuję spotkania z Markiem.
In this sentence, the case of "spotkanie" changes from Acc to Gen.
The instrumental "z Markiem" remains the same.

Planuję spotkać się z Markiem - nie planuję spotkać się z Markiem.
Here "spotkać się" is a verb so there's no case change.

thank you stryga!

I'll have few more questions I'm sure!

ale: "Widzę psy/koty (NOT: psów/kotów!!!) na drodze." Here accusative, because "pies" and "kot"are virile, NON-HUMAN, animate masculine nouns. cf. "brat", "ojciec" or "nauczyciel", to name but a few random virile HUMAN animate masculine nouns:-)

....so... what is the different between

Planuję spotkanie z Markiem - nie planuję spotkania z Markiem.

and

Planuję spotkać się z Markiem - nie planuję spotkać się z Markiem.


I get that spotkac sie is a verb, but what is 'spotkanie/spotkanie' in the first example?

Practically none. The first one sounds a little better but the difference is neglectable. Very often there's more than one way to say something in Polish.


a noun
Think: a meeting vs to meet - the same story, a noun and a verb. I'm planning a meeting with Mark vs I'm planning to meet Mark.

As with biernik, narzędnik collocates with certain verbs in Polish with which either one (or even BOTH!!) of these two cases is required, cf. German "two-way" prepositions with which certain verbs are governed by either the Dative or AccusativeLOL

Sticking to Polish however, I still have to think for a moment whether or not a particular verb requires which case, e.g. "interesować się" = to be interested in or "władać" = to master:

Interesuję się językiem polskim. = I'm interested in Polish.
Władam kilkoma językami. = I've mastered several languages.
etc..

... ok i have another question relating to the Nominative/ Instrumental cases.

I understand that words I look up in a dictionary are in the nominative case. that's fine. And they usually answer the questions of 'Kto' 'Co'.

For the Instrumental, I believe it's 'Kim' 'Czym'.

So, when I say 'I am English' I say 'Jestem Anglikiem', and 'You are Polish' 'Jestes Polakiem/Polką'. I undestand that good, BUT if say 'Peter is handsome' it is 'Piotr jest przystojny' is przystojny in the nominative case, or instrumental. and 'Adam is a boy' it becomes 'Adam jest chłopakiem'.

I undestand that the Instrumental case is used in relation to the verb 'to be'. so, if i had statements such as ..

He is ....for example nice...?on jest mily
She is ...ona jest mila
They are ..."
We are ..."
It is ..."
I am ..." the adjectives that follow are ALWAYS in the instrumental case?

I did't think I had so much trouble with this, but any comments would be appreciated!!!

The rules are different for nouns and adjectives, and you're mixing them up here, hence the confusion.
In English, "English" and "Polish" are adjectives (I am English, I am Polish).
But in Polish you use the words Anglik/Polak, which are nouns, so in this sentence they take Instrumental.

Jestem + Noun --> Instrumental
Jestem + Adjective --> Nominative
Jestem + Adjective + Noun --> Instrumental

so it's:
Jestem chłopakiem
Jestem przystojny
Jestem przystojnym chłopakiem.

The case of the adjective is determined by the presence/absence of a noun. When a noun follows, the adjective takes the same case as the noun. If there's no noun and the adjective stands by itself, then it's in the Nominative case.


ona jest miła, ono/to jest miłe, oni są mili, my jesteśmy mili, wy jesteście mili, oni są mili

but: ja jestem miłym chłopcem
ty jesteś miłym chłopcem
on jest miłym chłopcem
my jesteśmy miłymi chłopcami
wy jesteście miłymi chłopcami
oni są miłymi chłopcami

Is it clear now?

In colloquial Polish, one can nonetheless hear (even among educated Poles) "On jest Polak." rather than the grammatically standard "On jest Polakiem."

It can happen in lazy speech, but I'd rather expect to hear "To Polak" then.

I as well, Strzyga:-)

Oh thank you so much stzyga!!!!

That was a fantastic reply. It is so clear now. Please forgive me for asking so many elementary questions. I like to understand and always like to perservere!

Thanks again strzyga.... more questions will follow

(and thanks to everyone else who's posted their helpful comments) :-)

No worries, Chrząszcz - ask until you're sure you understand. It's the most sensible part of the forum anyway :) Just remember you owe me a beer when you get your B next year!

I won't forget!!! There's only another five or six cases to get my head round. I'm well under way (re)learning my vocabulary for the re-sit....

Something totally unrelated,,,, but what does 'Może być' mean. I often hear it being said by Polish. If it's nonsense please ignore...

ask until you're sure you understand

so.... if I want to say 'I am lazy' (which i'm not :-). It would be Jestem leniwy (nominative as it's an adjective).

They are lazy would be 'Oni są leniwy'.

They are lazy people 'Oni sa leniwym ludzym' (adjective + noun)?

I will get this!

"It will do" or "ok". Acceptance, but not very enthusiastic.


right


leniwi - it's plural


leniwymi ludźmi


You will :)

Hi strzyga. Just a real quick question. in the above 'leniwymi ludzmi', why does ludzmi not end in '-ami', as in 'ludzami'? I'm using Hurra!!! Po Polsku 1 and in an Narzednkik: Liczba Mnoga table it has

koncowki

adjective/przymiotnik
-ymi
-k, -g + -imi

noun/rzeczownik
-ami

How come the noun ending (people) is not 'ludzami'. Am I missing something here. Soz for the trivial question.

It might be trivial but I've no idea - it just is so :)
Well, probably some phonetical/morphological/historical processes are responsible for the irregularity, I suppose it might have something to do with the palatalization of "z" (or, rather, "dz") into ź/dź, but I'm no expert on Polish historical grammar so I won't even try to explain it.

All I can say is, Polish's full of irregularities. Accept it, memorize it, love it - or leave it :)