UK, Ireland / Polish immigration in UK [491]


Yes but then I'd be here all night like you... hang on, thats because you have no life...

DMcGee, at the same time, do you think you could do a report on the mis-informed who believe the Polish are to blame for most of Britain's problems? It would be nice to have some of their concerns addressed so they could realize Eastern Europeans are not to blame for everything bad in the UK.

DMcGee, at the same time, do you think you could do a report on the mis-informed who believe the Polish are to blame for most of Britain's problems? It would be nice to have some of their concerns addressed so they could realise Eastern Europeans are not to blame for everything bad in the UK.

Travel / Regular UK visitor to Krakow - How to meet people and make friends? [56]

Don't you worry, you'd be my last choice. Old boring bigots are not my preferred travelling companions by a long shot.

Travel / Regular UK visitor to Krakow - How to meet people and make friends? [56]

Aww you are angel :-)

If I can't find a way to bribe the POH, I might just take you up on that!

UK, Ireland / Polish immigration in UK [491]


Thansk for your concern, but its my lunch break... not my fault if I type 60wpm

UK, Ireland / Polish immigration in UK [491]


Okay let us clear up some basic faults with your comments; citizens from the old commonwealth, specifically Australians, New Zealands and Canadians cannot claim assistance including social security, housing, or benefits. It is part of the entry requirements for any permit we can obtain that we can support ourselves financially without assistance from the State (e.g. government).


There are approximately 208,900 Bangladeshis in the UK; and almost four times that number of Poles. Only 7,687 Poles are claiming Income Support but 22,979 Bangladeshis are. The same picture is visible through the statistics on ethnic population versus assistance received in the UK. It makes a mockery of your claims that Asian immigrants are supporting the rest of the UK as well as the EU.

The figures I refer to are taken from 'Britains Immigrants: An Economic Profile' published by the IPPR in September 2007, and are the most up to date figures available on ethnic groups in the UK in relation to unemployment and economic contribution. The report can be found (insert URL), but here is a breakdown for you in case you are too lazy or ignorant to work it out;

As of Quarter 4, 2006 the population by country of the biggest beneficiaries of tax payer assistance are;
Somalia
82,300 - 81% not working (Approx. 66,663 unemployed) - 39% claiming Income Support (approx. 32,097) - 80% in social housing (approx. 65,840)
Turkey
69,400 - 59% not working (Approx. 40,946 unemployed) - 21% claiming Income Support (approx. 14,574) - 49% in social housing (approx. 34,006)
Bangladesh
208,900 - 56% not working (Approx. 116,984 unemployed) - 11% claiming Income Support (approx. 22,979) - 41% in social housing (approx. 85,649)
Pakistan
306,400 - 55% not working (Approx. 168,520 unemployed) - 11% claiming Income Support (approx. 33,704) - 15% in social housing (approx. 45,960)
Iran
60,900 - 48% not working (Approx. 29,232 unemployed) - 10% claiming Income Support (approx. 6,090) - 33% in social housing (approx. 20,097)

For comparison, the figures for UK Born are;
UK Born - 52,980,100 - 22% not working (Approx. 11,655,622 unemployed) - 4% claiming Income Support (approx. 2,119,204) - 17% in social housing (approx. 9,006,617)

And finally the figures for Poles are;
Poland - 768,700 - 15% not working (Approx. 115,305 unemployed) - 1% claiming Income Support (approx. 7,687) - 8% in social housing (approx. 61,496)

The top five drains on the UK by ethnic group are; Somalia, Turkey, Bangladesh, Pakistan, and Iran. The combined population of these five groups in the UK is 727,900. The total unemployed for these five ethnic groups combined are 422,345 or over 58%. Income Support Claimants total 109,444 or 15%, while those living in Social Housing total 251,552 or 35%.

Perhaps if these groups (i.e. Somalians, Turkish, Bangladeshis, Pakistanis, and Iranians) stood on their own two feet rather than relying on the tax payer - which includes the Poles - they might find life in the UK a lot less cushy and there would be enough money to help those who truly deserve it (the elderly being a good start). I believe there should be restrictions placed on immigrants claiming support from State sources for five years from date of entry. This would promote a 'sink or swim' mentality, and would discourage large groups from immigrating to the UK purely to sit on their backsides as it appears a significant portion of immigrants from Somalia, Turkey, Bangladesh, Pakistan, and Iran do.

LennyD you continue to spout the same rot without listening to the answers.
If a business cannot obtain labour at a reasonable cost, they don't increase their labour budget - they simply move the jobs off shore. No company can be made to hire employees if they are not economically viable.

You would be better off retraining for a higher skilled job that cannot be outsourced (the knowledge economy).
Migration Watch has been linked with the BNP. Given the BNPs attitudes towards immigrants, I would struggle to believe there are no ulterior motives hiding beneath Migration Watch's statements.

UK, Ireland / Polish immigration in UK [491]


But the thing is, why should an immigrant come to the UK and sit on their arse taking money from the government? Overall, no one who is capable of working should be sitting on their arse, but if you choose to move countries, then you have a responsibility to support yourself without relying on the government of your host country.


A minimum standard of English is usually a requirement for employment. Hopefully the Pakistani and Iranian 'cashiers' have higher standards than you...


As previously stated before, Somalians, Bangladeshis, Pakistanis, Iranians and Turkish immigrants are the most likely to be reliant on a benefit. Why on earth are you bringing religion into this?


Ahh yes you would prefer to believe the propaganda peddled by 'Migration Watch' rather than hard facts.


Lets make this very basic for you; if employers can't find labour for a reasonable rate, they move jobs offshore. Jobs in the UK provide employment - admittedly at a low rate - and tax income by way of personal and company taxes.


Companies pay what is affordable to allow them to make a profit. If goods are priced too high - due to high labour costs - then they don't sell, meaning no jobs. However I do believe an increase in the minimum wage is warranted.

As many have said to you before, do you understand the basic fundementals of a 'market economy'?

UK, Ireland / Polish immigration in UK [491]

I don't despise the tax system; if you work, you are expected to pay tax, which is the natural order of life. I also pay a considerable amount of taxes, but understand that the tax rate is part of working here. If I want to pay a lower rate of tax, then I would choose a country with a lower tax rate.

Women like me?? I don't live in a council house, and neither do any of my friends - nor are any of my friends claiming any benefits. Also, for your information, I cannot have children.

The top five foreign national groups claiming benefits in the UK are (in order of number);
Somalia
Turkey
Bangladesh
Pakistan
Iran

There are no doubts about my facts and figures which are all taken from reports independently certified.

As for 'my own mess', I'm a New Zealander; New Zealand has the third lowest unemployment rate in the developed world. New Zealand is not perfect (we do have some terrible faults in our society), but we do have a strong economy.

Polish nationals are allowed to claim child benefits under EU law, the same as other EU nationals. I admit however I don't agree that they should be able to claim British benefits for children not in the UK (as I feel this is taking unfair liberties) however under law this is possible, and other EU nationals also do it. I do however hope that there is a 'tidying up' of this law as soon as possible. Even so, the fact remains that Polish people do not partake of social welfare payments and support to the extent of other, mainly Asian and African, nationals.

UK, Ireland / Polish immigration in UK [491]


My friends are already educated, just like me :-)


Actually the story on the Polish walking off the job in Liverpool in support of Royal Mail workers was published in a Facebook group by a white British born Royal Mail worker..

UK, Ireland / Polish immigration in UK [491]


I have no need for an inferiority complex, as I'm very confident of my own abilities. And the colony ended over a hundred years ago... As for working in the UK, how about you ask the tens of thousands of English immigrants to NZ the same?


There is no shame in having any job, because people should take pride in their work. Even those who are unemployed should have pride in themselves if they are doing their best to find work. Only those who sit on their backside sucking money from the public purse because they are too lazy to find a job should feel shame. Considering you feel the need to mock me, I can only deduce that you suffer from an inferiority complex.


I have never claimed anything from the British government, and never would. However going on basis of nationality, a Pakistani is twice as likely as a Pole to claim the unemployment benefit, and an Iranian is five times more likely than a Pole to claim the unemployment benefit.

UK, Ireland / Polish immigration in UK [491]


Apparently not.. they advertised through the UK and EU for three months without success, and its well above minimum wage.


There are plenty of nationalities that live multiple occupants to a house, not just the Poles, and given that there wasn't a minimum wage in the UK until 1998, I struggle to understand how you can blame the Poles for the level of pay.


Rightly or wrongly, the British worker has an established worldwide reputation as being shirkers, and the Poles have one as being diligent hardworkers. I don't feel that the British deserve a shirker reputation, as most do actually work well enough, but the Poles in my experience do work very hard. For the majority of the Poles, they want to earn money, and will go where the work is, including weekends and evenings.

As for the trade unions, you have Margaret Thatcher to blame for that, and as you may have seen recently in the media, she is now cosying up to Gordon Brown, so I can't see any political party supporting the unions in the future.


Recently during the postal strike in Liverpool, Royal Mail tried to bring on extra Polish workers to do the work being done by the strikers, but the ringleader of the Polish crew caught on very quickly to what Royal Mail were doing, whistled to his mates, and off they went to the pub, shaking hands with the strikers on the way.

I also know that support crew in our offices, who are mainly Polish, do belong to a union, because every once and a while we get a sign up saying 'Union Meeting', (although I admit I don't know which one).


Migration Watch is anti migration, so don't you think that what they publish is likely to be skewed?


Given that you were posting that at 10.45pm on a Friday night, I'd say that marks you out as boring where as I was out having a good time :-)

UK, Ireland / Polish immigration in UK [491]


I know :-( Unfortunately for some, their views are possibly based on perceptions from the media or fear of the unknown... I'm very happy to hang out with the Polish, or indeed any nationality. Tonight will be two Irish, two South Africans, two Polish, an Australian, three English, two Scots and a Welshman.

UK, Ireland / Polish immigration in UK [491]

I don't slag the British off or Great Britain... if you would like to read my posts, I've said there are plenty of things that are good about the UK and its people. What I don't like about some members of the British population is their desire to blame the Poles for everything and anything that goes wrong. There are immigrant groups who are actually drains on Britain, but they are not the Polish. However, it does seem to be fashionable to blame the Poles anyway rather than looking at the evidence.

Meanwhile just for your future reference, going through my family tree I can identify English, Irish, German, Serbian, French, and Maori blood. New Zealand is a country of immigrants, and we're proud of it.

UK, Ireland / Polish immigration in UK [491]

The Imperial Troops were not needed to fight the Maori until after the Treaty of Waitangi was signed in 1840 as the British made promises they did not intend to keep. As soon as the treaty was agreed (thereby giving control to the British rather than the French, who were settled in Akaroa and who were also in negotiations with the Maori), the British began to impose their way of life on the Maori, including removal from their land (which brought about the Maori Land Wars in the mid 1800's).

However, to answer your question, yes I am of Maori descent and I am registered on the Maori electoral role under Ngai Tahu.

Almost everyone in the world is an immigrant, including the British; the UK has been repeatedly settled by immigrants including the Romans, the Celtics, the Saxons and the Jutes.

UK, Ireland / Polish immigration in UK [491]

Lenny, I'd like to see your source, as the various economic reports I've read have shown that Polish immigrants make contributions to the British economy whereas other ethnic groups are bigger drains on Britain. If you are Somalian, you are five and half times more likely to be unemployed than a Polish person, or four times more likely to be unemployed than a British person. A Turkish person is four times more likely to be unemployed than a Polish person, or two and half times more likely to be unemployed than a British person - and the Turkish gangs are responsible for the majority of heroin imports into the UK.


Lenny, you are completely ignorant. I've stated many times on this board that I'm not Polish - I'm from New Zealand. I had a permit to move to Ireland, but the company I work for could not recruit anyone to do my job as well as I do, so they asked me to stay. My boyfriend is in Ireland, so understandably it had to be made financially worth my while to stay in the UK and to encourage him to give up his job to move here, so don't you think if the company thought they could find a British person to do the job, they would have? I'm all for people getting jobs, but they have to have the skills to actually do the work, and in my case, there wasn't


My family has actually fought in several wars on behalf of the United Kingdom. My paternal great grandfather was born in Ireland, and my maternal great grandparents were born in Lancashire. Two of my great uncles, my great-grandfather and one of my great aunts on the maternal side died in WW1 on my as part of British army, and my grandfather on my paternal side spent seven years away from his family, coming back a shell. Great Britain got more than its pound of flesh from New Zealand - and my family. My extended family (stepmother, step grandparents, step great grandmother, three sisters, three husbands and fourteen children etc) are all English, but despite being recent immigrants to NZ, are benefiting quite well from New Zealand, so given that New Zealand has absorbed 20-plus English people, I think gaining me is a very good deal for the UK.

Travel / Regular UK visitor to Krakow - How to meet people and make friends? [56]

I found the Irish embassy when I was in Krakow... full of tourists, but they were friendly. Otherwise I was a bit crap at meeting Polish people, which is a shame. I want to go back again for Easter next year (the next time I will have any holidays), but can't find anyone willing to go with me..

UK, Ireland / What do Polish people think about Wales and Welsh people? [191]

As a Kiwi, I have a great affinity with the Welsh... both nationalities get mocked for the sheep population, plus they are one rugby team we are guaranteed to beat :-)

Love / Are there Polish women who date black guys? [281]

Some Finnish friends had a preference for black guys... and have to admit, it seemed like there were some black guys who had a preference for blonde, blue eyed girls.. So I'm sure you'd get a Polish girl or two with a black man preference.

UK, Ireland / Polish immigration in UK [491]


He only JUST gets his point across... Its hard to see amongst the rambling and the mistakes.
But thanks for the career suggestion :-)

UK, Ireland / Polish immigration in UK [491]


Its a shame that on your travels you haven't learnt a basic level of English, allowing you to communicate effectively.
How do you know they are Polish? Are you going up to each and every one requesting their nationality status? Somalians, Bangladeshis, Pakistanis, Chinese, Iranians, Portugese, Indians - are all more dependent on the UK's social services than the Polish.

For my own curiousity, what nationality are you?

Food / Pierogi Dough [30]

I tried once to make pierogis... not very successful at all (although my boyfriend did eat them - bless his heart).

One day I think I'm going to hire someone to teach me how to cook some traditional Polish food...

UK, Ireland / What do you hate about England and English people? [142]

Are you still current? If so, then you may be working with my brother.

But since you're here, any explanation why they offer the leaves on the line excuse for an underground line? Or state staff shortages when its a safety concern?

UK, Ireland / What do you hate about England and English people? [142]


Its not Network Rail but TFL that make that decision, in conjuction with the maintenance companies Metronet and Tube. The Victoria line (which is where I've twice heard the excuse of 'leaves on the line' in the past couple of months) operates fully underground.

Unfortunately there is a history of giving commuters false excuses as to the real reason for delays on the Tube. Recently we had issues on the tube where they stated to commuters that there were staff shortages when we were all sitting there reading the newspapers where drivers were saying they refused to drive the trains due to brake issues.

UK, Ireland / What do you hate about England and English people? [142]


I don't want sales assistants who immediately think behaving as though they are your best friend will boost their sales commission, but the ones who just grunt and don't offer a simple 'hello', 'That will be £xx.xx' and 'thank you' are the ones who get on my wick.


Flights are getting cheaper though...

And it could be worse - its 27 hours by plane for me to go home for a visit (one way)

UK, Ireland / What do you hate about England and English people? [142]

I hate the 'Its not my job' mentality.. usually involving call centres and long queues.

I also hate waitresses and sales assistants with no manners

(one gem of a waitress in Wigan actually pulled her ringing mobile out of her apron pocket while taking our order, had a quick chat, put her mobile back in her pocket, and continued taking our order... ignoring the fact we'd just heard her evening plans with her mate's boyfriend)

Stupid excuses on the tube.. including leaves on the line, sunshine in their eyes (they're on bloody tracks!), tracks too hot, tracks too cold, tracks covered in snow, staff shortages... lots and lots of excuses.

But mostly the UK isn't too bad... though a bit more deodorant on the tube especially in summer wouldn't go amiss.

UK, Ireland / How many of your co-workers in the UK are Polish? [30]

Burmese, Sri Lankan, Malaysia, Romanian, Indian, Pakistani, English, Scottish, and one lone Kiwi... well at least in my department

UK, Ireland / How many of your co-workers in the UK are Polish? [30]

I think it depends (unfortunately) on the industry... I work for a huge company (FTSE-100) so I would be here until Christmas 2198 working it all out, but there are no Poles in my team. However our company cafeterias are many staffed with Polish, and I know of about six other Poles in my building working in 'white collar' roles, two of which were originally working the cafeteria, but successfully applied for new roles.

UK, Ireland / Polish immigration in UK [491]


Tories renew call for migrant limit as diligent Poles impress Britons

news.independent.co.uk/uk/politics/article3121176.ece
ComRes survey


Its not relevant, but my Dad left school at 15 as he wanted to be a jockey; all went well until he was 21, when he fell during a race and copped a hoof to the eye socket, blinding him in one eye. He couldn’t ride anymore, but didn’t have the education to go into office work or go to university. He worked hard, possibly had a bit of ‘right time, right place’ luck, and he’s now a supervisor manager… Dad might not have bunch of papers hanging on his office wall, but he ain’t stupid, and he’s achieved what he wants to do (plus he sometimes gets to train horses in his spare time, which keeps him happy). I guess that’s why I don’t believe that low skilled or even low educated necessarily has to mean stupid. Dad always drummed into us ‘You’ve got two arms, two legs, and a brain, so you work’, and touch wood, my siblings and I are sticking to that.


If it helps, when I do back home, I am hoping to do a TEFL course as well; we have a large, mainly Asian, immigrant population. I can’t remember where I saw it, but a few places do offer it by correspondence. If you do decide to go ahead and do it, let me know how it goes?


The majority of British people are really good... like most things, a few bad eggs spoils everything and gives a bad reputation. There are all sorts of generalisations and stereotypes of different nationalities, but as I travel, I’ve been fortunate to discover that the majority of people are good people just wanting to be happy in their own way.

UK, Ireland / Polish immigration in UK [491]

In the 1960s and 1970s there was huge amounts of immigration to Australia and New Zealand by Irish, English, Scottish and Welsh nationals, and it impacted on the salaries of Australians and New Zealanders. Those same countries also received large amounts of displaced persons after WWII (which is how most of my family ended up leaving Europe), and during the 70s and 80s, Polynesian Islanders also began chasing the opportunities in New Zealand, and to some extents, Australia. New Zealand is now host to the largest Polynesian city in the world (250,000 plus and counting), and there are now four times as many Niueans in New Zealand than there are in Niue. Both Australia and New Zealand have embraced the opportunities that migrant labour can bring, strengthening their work force, and now have some of the lowest unemployment rates in developed world maintaining strong economic growth. However they do place restrictions on benefits and social housing, in that migrants cannot claim for benefits and housing until they have been there for between two to five years; possibly that might be something Britain could look at?

A study published last week stated that 69% of British people believe that Polish employees work harder than British employees. On the flipside, they came last in a list of nationalities British people would like to spend a weekend with.

For many years, the world has been talking of a ‘global economy’, and now the global economy is coming to the UK, in the form of the EU worker.

UK, Ireland / Polish immigration in UK [491]


Yes, and they need to have motivation to change it. I'm not up to date on the number of people receiving the minimum wage in the UK who are eligible to vote, but I would still hazard a guess that there are enough to make a difference. If they were vocal about increases, perhaps then the government would listen. From my experiences in the UK, it seems that the major political parties listen a lot to corporate business, but not to the 'Joe Average' worker. The minimum wage in my native country has doubled in ten years; in the same period for the UK it began at £3.60 (April 1997) and is currently £5.52. If it could rise to £7.20, it would be a great help to the low paid worker in the UK.


It is the same in many countries unfortunately, not just the US or the UK. I do support higher taxes for those in higher income brackets; realistically does someone need a 100k bonus on top of a 400k salary? Perhaps if there was some correlation in company tax in relation to staff wages, it would motivate employers to pay more reasonable wages.

UK, Ireland / Polish immigration in UK [491]

The hard story would have been giving the full details rather than the bare bones..


Low skilled doesn't mean an idiot, and I apologise if I've given you the impression that I thought that. I don't know how old you are (so please don't get offended), but I understand that a couple of decades ago, it was possible to leave at 15 or 16, and settle in for a job supposedly for life. I understand that the world has changed, and there are some who have experienced bigger changes than others, such as yourself it appears.


Thats a healthy attitude to have; I only wish it was valued more in a financial sense. I really don't understand why the minimum wage is so low, as there are bigger corporates who are making good money who should be spreading a bit more of the wealth around (which is not the fault of the Polish).


I can understand there are some lazy jobsworths who are more interested in massaging the figures, so they put dole bludgers on courses to make them look like active job seekers instead of bums (unfortunately it happens in many countries). Any chance of doing training by correspondence, depending of course on what you would like to do. It does seem as though you're happy to use your brains and you seem smart enough from your posts on here; what about doing a TEFL course, and perhaps teaching English to the Polish in your area (although I'm not sure what the pay rates are for teaching English as a second language in the UK).