Posts by amipolish8

amipolish8

23 Feb 2017

Law / Polish/EU Citizenship by Descent [88]

She's not incompetent, but she's not all that enthusiastic about our case. We've been taking forever to get all the paperwork and she doesn't think we're serious. Also, the fact that my dad doesn't really want to do this makes her think that nothing is going to come out of all this effort, because he has to get a Polish passport before we do. It's mostly me, my sister, my mom and a friend who's been helping us get all the documents. My dad is willing to sign all the necessary documents but he doesn't really want to get involved, so we have to do all the work.

amipolish8

23 Feb 2017

Law / Polish/EU Citizenship by Descent [88]

Really? :o didn't know...

amipolish8

23 Feb 2017

Law / Polish/EU Citizenship by Descent [88]

Waiting until I've learned enough of the language to be able to communicate with the "Urząd Stanu Cywilnego" is going to take waayyyy too long. We've already spent 8 years trying to get a Polish passport. This process is sooooo long and complicated.

amipolish8

23 Feb 2017

Law / Polish/EU Citizenship by Descent [88]

The thing is that I can't call them because I don't speak Polish and they don't speak English. I don't have access to a fax machine either, so the only way for me to get in contact with them is to ask a lawyer to do it for me, which is probably going to cost more than getting Lithuanian records translated.

I really want to be a Polish citizen but the Polish government is making it so difficult. We've been working on this for 7-8 years and haven't even started the original process yet. Our lawyer has given up on us like a thousand times and we've practically had to beg her to continue working on our case.

amipolish8

23 Feb 2017

Law / Polish/EU Citizenship by Descent [88]

Complete fiction? Does that mean that it's not legit? The problem is that the "Urząd Stanu Cywilnego" office requires everything to be in Polish. I'm finding it really hard to navigate their website because it's all in Polish and Google Translate doesn't seem to work very well. The only way for me to communicate with them is by email, because emailing them enables me to use google translate, but I it doesn't seem like they have an email address. Also, things often get lost in translation. Getting documents from the Lithuanian archives is so much easier because their website is in English and I can email them in English. Also how can I pay the "Urząd Stanu Cywilnego" for the records if I don't have a Polish bank account? I'm happy to pay them using Paypal, a credit card or a wire transfer but based on what you said they don't accept these forms of payment.

amipolish8

23 Feb 2017

Law / Polish/EU Citizenship by Descent [88]

"1) both of your paternal grandparents' birth certificates from the Urząd Stanu Cywilnego in Warsaw,"
My family got my grandfather's birth certificate from Lithuania ("Lietvus Tarybu Socialine Respublika") in somewhere in the 1970s. It's in Lithuanian and Russian. Do you think this is good enough, or do I need to get another birth certificate from the "Urząd Stanu Cywilnego" in Warsaw because the one I have is from Lithuania?

amipolish8

23 Feb 2017

Law / Polish/EU Citizenship by Descent [88]

So if I want to claim Polish citizenship for my father based on both my grandparents, what additional documents do I need to get? I'm assuming that I need to obtain my grandmother's birth certificate and death certificate. Are there any other documents I need to get?

amipolish8

23 Feb 2017

Law / Polish/EU Citizenship by Descent [88]

"If they had lived together as husband and wife, it makes a good case that your grandfather had recognized your father as his son. I don't know what exactly a Polish judge would decide, but this is the kind of problem that a good lawyer solves, since both parents were Polish citizens, thus the child must be a Polish citizen. The 1951 citizenship act spells this out more plainly, but it is the clear result from the 1920 Act as well."

My father was born after 1951, which means that the act of 1951 was in effect when my dad was born right?

"They might have been married by a rabbi somewhere without a civil record, and then lived the rest of their lives proclaiming themselves married."
My grandparents joined the Jewish partisans at some point towards the end of the war. Do you think a partisan Rabbi could have married them? If so, do you think there's some way for me to get their marriage certificate?

"You would need to explain that the DOB discrepancy was the result of lying to the Nazis to avoid extermination. It is a rather compelling explanation."

I think that's why they lied about their DOB, but I'm not sure. It's also possible that the people who took down their information to issue their new ids when they arrived at the refugee camp miscopied their dob. Documents weren't computerized back then, so it's totally possible.

amipolish8

22 Feb 2017

Law / Polish/EU Citizenship by Descent [88]

The documents that have the wrong dob make it very clear that my grandparents are married and that my uncle is their son. If only there was some way to correct my grandparents' dob in these documents...

amipolish8

22 Feb 2017

Law / Polish/EU Citizenship by Descent [88]

I'm not sure what "legally recognized his son" means, but I'm pretty sure that my father's birth certificate lists my grandfather as his father and my grandmother as his mother.

I also have my uncle's Italian birth certificate but it only has has my grandmother's name on there.

amipolish8

22 Feb 2017

Law / Polish/EU Citizenship by Descent [88]

I found my great grandparents' (my paternal grandfather's parents) marriage records on jewishgen.org. They got married in Vilnius 16 years before my grandfather was born. I also found an internal passport record where the comments say "The German Passport ... was issued in Vilnius in 1916". There's another record indicating that my great grandfather worked in in Kaunas between 1927 and 1939. Do you think these records could be helpful?

amipolish8

22 Feb 2017

Law / Polish/EU Citizenship by Descent [88]

I really appreciate your help and all the information that you've given me, but I don't think that proving citizenship through my maternal grandfather is going to work. We've been working on this whole Polish citizenship thing for a 7-8 years now. We've been working on it for so long that the lawyer I mentioned before has pretty much given up on us because she doesn't think we're ever going to be able to find all the necessary paperwork. I'm pretty sure someone in my family looked into trying to obtain it through my maternal grandfather at some point and was told it wasn't an option. I don't know if the lawyer I mentioned before told them that, but I'm pretty sure it's not possible.

amipolish8

22 Feb 2017

Law / Polish/EU Citizenship by Descent [88]

Can I submit my paternal grandmother's birth certificate instead of the marriage certificate? I'm pretty sure she was born in Vilnius in the early 1920s. But regardless, I though female ancestors didn't count when it came to Polish citizenship. Someone told me that getting Polish citizenship through my grandmother isn't an option because the Poles only consider male ancestors for citizenship by descent.

Alternatively, can I use my dad's birth certificate to show that his parents were married when he was born. I'm assuming birth certificates have the parents' martial status on them, do they not?

I think my maternal grandfather mentioned that he served or was ordered to serve in the Polish Army and then left or escaped to join the Soviet/Red army. I'm not sure exactly what happened when, but I'm assuming this probably happened at some point after he left Zamosc.

amipolish8

22 Feb 2017

Law / Polish/EU Citizenship by Descent [88]

Thank you for your help. Do you happen to know if is there some way for me to email the Urząd Stanu Cywilnego to ask for the birth certificates? Does the Urząd Stanu Cywilnego in Warsaw have an email address? Also, I'm assuming that they don't speak English or do they? Does the letter or email I send them have to be written in Polish?

Also, there's basically no way for us to get my maternal grandmother's records because we don't know her real date of birth. I don't even know if we can get her real name and place of birth. She moved out of Poland when she was 3 years old and for some reason her parents changed her name and dob. She never actually knew what her real dob was.

I've emailed several Servizi Semograficis in Italy asking if they happen to have my paternal grandparents' marriage records. So far none of the offices I've emailed seemed to have it. Honestly, I don't really know what to do. There's a chance that my grandparents got married during the holocaust before they were transported to Italy. If that's the case, I'm not sure who to contact. All that I do know is that my grandfather's A.E.F Registration Record from Jan 1946 says he's married, which means that my grandparents probably got married before then.

amipolish8

22 Feb 2017

Law / Polish/EU Citizenship by Descent [88]

"The birth records of the Second Polish Republic still exist in Poland, although in rare cases those documents may have been damaged during the wars. You are making a mistake if you haven't requested those records from the Polish records office"

Even if I could get my other grandfather's birth cirtificate, I'm not sure that I'm going to be able to get all the other required documents. Sadly, my grandfather is no longer alive. We don't have access to his stuff because his wife (my step grandmother) really hates us. Also I think my grandfather served in 5 different armies or something and back when he was still alive he made it very clear that he'd lost his Polish citizenship.

amipolish8

22 Feb 2017

Law / Polish/EU Citizenship by Descent [88]

War criminals :o. Srsly?? They lost their families in the holocaust and ran for their lives.

The lawyer said that the process of obtaining citizenship for someone who passed away is extremely complicated but since he was alive when we started the process when he signed this document in polish and since we got this other citizenship form from the government we don't need to go through that. Given what she said, wouldn't the death certificate complicate things?

Why do I want to claim citizenship through both my parents? It's going to take us forever to find all the documents for my maternal grandfather. I don't even know if it's possible given that he lost his entire family in the holocaust so his birth certificate was probably burned or buried by the Nazis.

Interesting... I just google translated part of my grandfather's birth certificate and it says "Lithuanian Soviet Socialist Republic" ("Lietvus Tarybu Socialistine Respublika"). His birth certificate doesn't have anything filled in for his parents' nationalities (Nationality : -)

amipolish8

22 Feb 2017

Law / Polish/EU Citizenship by Descent [88]

My mom was definitely never a Polish citizen because her father was stripped of his Polish citizenship during WWII. My father was because his parents never really lost or renounced their polish citizenship and they didn't serve in a non-polish army.

amipolish8

22 Feb 2017

Law / Polish/EU Citizenship by Descent [88]

"Prolly because he joined the Red Army in the war time treason and such were taken seriously. In that case go for Lithuanian passport."

But my paternal grandfather from Vilnius didn't serve in the army, so he should be eligible.

But if Poland refuses to consider me a Pole than shouldn't Lithuania grant me citizenship?

amipolish8

21 Feb 2017

Law / Polish/EU Citizenship by Descent [88]

"Why can't you find your grandparent's marriage certificate? Where were they married?"
I'm trying to find a way to obtain it. The thing is that they got married somewhere in Italy between 1945 and 1948, but we don't know exactly where. Up until recently we thought my grandparent got married in Verona, but we're not so sure anymore. I recently contacted Verona city hall (Servizi Demografici) but they couldn't find my grandparents' marriage certificate. I need to email Servizi Demografici in Milan and Cremona to check if they have it.

"Have you actually applied for citizenship, or are you basing your opinion on what the lawyer has told you?"
All the info I gave you is based on what the lawyer said.
Basically she said that we can't submit an application until the following issues are resolved:
1. The dob mismatch issue
2. We need my grandparents' marriage certificate

That was my other grandfather from Zamosc. He's certainly not Lithuanian. He left Poland when he was 15 because he knew the Nazis were coming and feared for his life. His family didn't believe him and they refused to leave Zamosc. I don't know if he knew he was going to join the Red/Soviet Army when he left but I do know he left because of the Nazis and was right to do so because his whole entire family was murdered in the holocaust. It was totally a survival thing. A few years after joining the Red/Soviet Army he joined the british army. When I asked him about obtaining a polish passport he told me that he was stripped of his Polish citizenship because he didn't serve in the Polish army or something.

amipolish8

21 Feb 2017

Law / Polish/EU Citizenship by Descent [88]

Here's a list of the documents that we have:
Correct DOB:
Birth certificate - dob: 1915 (correct DOB)
Other citizenship certificate from 2014 stating that he was born in Poland - dob: 1915
Most recent ID - dob: 1915
Another recently obtained document (census?) - dob: 1915
Incorrect DOB:
A.E.F Registration Record from Jan 1946 - dob: 1919 (incorrect DOB)
Immigration & refugee camp related documents stating that my grandfather was deported to Germany for forced labor - dob: 1919 (incorrect age). These documents also state that my grandmother is his wife and that my uncle is his son. The dob that is listed for my grandmother is also incorrect.

Other documents:
A letter from the government stating that he didn't serve in the military.
Statement or document in polish that he signed in 2014 when he was alive. Since the document is in Polish I have no idea what it says.

My uncle's birth certificate

amipolish8

21 Feb 2017

Law / Polish/EU Citizenship by Descent [88]

Sorry the dob on his birth certificate is actually correct. The dob on his Polish ID and refugee camp documents is incorrect. We have so many documents that I'm getting a bit lost and confused.

amipolish8

21 Feb 2017

Law / Polish/EU Citizenship by Descent [88]

Thank you so much for your help and suggestions. The thing is that I don't really want to move to Poland for 3 years. I'd be happy to move there for a few months, but 3 years is a long time.

I didn't know you could actually submit an application directly to the president. How long does it take to process? Do I need to pay a lawyer?

I'm not sure how I can ask Jewish community in Poland help me if I don't know anyone who lives there. Also, Vilnius is part of Lithuania now, isn't it? So maybe I should try the Lithuanian community? I don't really know anyone there either. We got the documents with the incorrect dob from the International Tracing Agency in Germany. Do you think there's some way to get them to correct it?

amipolish8

21 Feb 2017

Law / Polish/EU Citizenship by Descent [88]

He was when we started gathering the documents and the lawyer said we got all the documents we needed other than my grandparents' marriage certificate and that the dob is the main issue. Sadly he passed away a couple of years ago close to his 100th birthday.

amipolish8

21 Feb 2017

Law / Polish/EU Citizenship by Descent [88]

Re:#2
Thank you so much for your response. Yup, that's pretty much what my maternal grandfather did. He joined those armies in order to survive and because of that he lost his Polish citizenship.

My other grandfather did not serve in the military before 1962 so he never actually lost his citizenship. The uncle I mentioned above is his son. I've discussed my case with a Polish immigration Lawyer and she said that the dob issue has to be resolved in order for me to be able to apply for citizenship. The thing is that I have no idea how to fix this. The only thing that comes to mind is using my uncle to show that my grandfather is polish and that he has different documents with different dates of birth on them.

amipolish8

21 Feb 2017

Law / Polish/EU Citizenship by Descent [88]

All 4 of my grandparents were born in Poland so I feel like there should be some way for me to obtain Polish citizenship by descent (or at least some other EU citizenship). My maternal grandfather lost his citizenship when he joined the red army. A few years later he joined the British army (doesn't this count for something?). My maternal grandmother left Poland before the holocaust and she lost all of her documents.

My paternal grandparents were born in Vilnius. They fled the country when the holocaust happened. As jews who were trying to survive, they had to leave Vilnius. I managed to get copies of most of the required documents (e.g. birth certificate, refugee camp documents that state they had to flee the country, etc.). These documents clearly state that they're both Polish. The thing is that my grandfather's dob on these documents is incorrect and it doesn't match up with the dob on his current ID. I think that my grandfather changed his dob during the holocaust because it was necessary for his survival. Does this mean that I can't get a Polish passport?

The documents I mentioned also mention my uncle and clearly state that his Polish by descent even though he was born in Italy. We have a copy of his birth certificate. My uncle's dob is THE SAME in all the documents including his current ID. I don't think my is aware of this because he doesn't have a Polish passport. Can I use this to prove that my grandfather is Polish? If so, would my uncle need to reobtain his Polish citizenship first?

If Poland refuses to accept these documents, can I get a Lithuanian passport since my grandparents were born in Vilnius (which is now part of Lithuania)? Also, if Poland refuses to accept these documents restore my uncle's Polish citizenship, wouldn't it mean that my uncle is Italian because he was born "stateless" in Italy?

My grandfather was born in Vilnius late 1915, back when it was occupied by the Germans. Does this mean that my grandfather was also a German citizen because he was born in what was "Germany" at the time? Can I use this to obtain German citizenship or PR based on en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_nationality_law#Victims_of_Nazi_persecution?

If you were able to get this far, thank you for reading all of this. Any information would be greatly appreciated.