UK, Ireland / Why can't unemployed Polish people on benefits just leave UK and go home please? [240]

@Maybe

You raise some interesting and valid points my friend and as I said before I have no problem with Polish people per se.

I do, however, find it incredulous that we even allow foreign nationals to claim benefits here - that just doesn't make sense! But then neither does paying British pensioners resident in Spain and other warm EU climate areas a winter fuel allowance. My beef is with our government. As you say the problem lies in the system, OUR system! It is complicated, weak and IMHO not 'fit for purpose'. It needs a total overhaul.

To be honest, I just wish someone would get into government that really had the balls to be straight up honest with the public. Our country is near to meltdown and its borrowing is crippling us, why - well IMO its simple it costs more to run the country than the government is raising in taxes! Its not rocket science and I just wish we had a PM who would stand up and say something like "People of Britain, we have failed you, not just this party but every party since the 1980's [only since that is as far back as I can recall] we have been "vote winning" by promising tax cuts. Tax cuts that we delivered. Admittedly we also increased stealth taxes and indirect taxes to try and compensate but it just isn't working. The Truth is there isn't enough money in the pot to run a first world country if we continue like this. You have two choices, we can continue to make crippling cuts to public spending affecting everything from healthcare, policing and refuse collection. Or, you can accept that providing these services, living in a civilized world comes at a price, we can increase taxes and get this country back on its feet".

I for one would rather see a return to an income tax rate north of 25% perhaps as much as 30% as it was in Thatchers era. BUT only on the proviso that we also saw a return to some of the benefits we saw then. VAT at 15%,FREE dental check-ups, eye tests and prescriptions, etc.

The fact is it does cost money to run a country and if you want all the luxuries and creature comforts that made this nation great then you have to accept it comes with a price tag attached. A Price tag weALL have a responsibility to pay towards.

However I have drifted off topic (I do love a good debate). I agree that there are many Poles who come over here and integrate, work hard, pay their taxes etc. But there are also a disproportionately high number of lazy benefit cheats and criminal elements that 'milk the system'. And as I also point out in my original post, there are also many White British 'chavs' doing exactly the same. They are all nothing but'Oxygen Thieves'Pondlife Scum that doesn't deserve to live!!!

Sadly, however, I do object to some of those hard working Poles who come here to better their own lives as I do believe that they are taking up jobs that could be filled with British workers [if the system was changed to incentivize the lazy Chav Bas**rds to work]. Not that all the jobs being dome by Polish workers are menial, I am sure there are may jobs that British would gladly do IF they could get them. And herein lies part of the problem. I also object to the outpouring of funds from OUR economy to foreign lands, Polish or otherwise! Money earned in Britain should be spent in Britain. How else are we expected to get our country back on its feet?

Right, rant over. Time to put the soap box away...... For now anyway.

UK, Ireland / Why can't unemployed Polish people on benefits just leave UK and go home please? [240]

Absolutely, as I hope I made clear in my post, I AM NOT RACIST!

It does sicken me that ANY foreigners are able to come over here and just go on benefits but as I made clear the fault lies with OUR government. No-one could blame anyone for wanting a better life. When I lived in Morocco I witnessed DAILY tens of young boys, some as young as 8 maybe, climbing under lorries and hanging on for dear life in the vein hope they would make it through the port onto the boat and across to Spain / Europe. Its perfectly natural to want a better life, especially if you own is pretty sh!t.

My anger is with the system, I bear no grudge to the poles or any other race for that matter. Although I do think that the Pakistani community do take particular liberties coming over here and then bringing half their village with them claiming they are 'family'. Now those guys really know how to 'milk the system' here in the UK! Worse still our government in their 'wisdom' seem to think its our responsibility to waste millions of public money printing all sorts of official documents in their language!

There is much wrong with my country and IF I had my way there is much I would change. Like for example the issue of asylum seekers, by definition they should seek refuge in the first safe country they come to - International law demands this! But no they manage to get all the way from Afghanistan or Iraq or Albania to the UK. Surely they didnt just hop on a plane. 99% of the time they must have come over by Lorry / boat so they must have come through Europe. As a matter of interest is Poland flooded with these Economic Migrants, sorry I mean 'Asylum Seekers'?

UK, Ireland / Why can't unemployed Polish people on benefits just leave UK and go home please? [240]

Well this thread has certainly been an interesting read. Aside from the very obvious racist slur from the uneducated BNP'esque brigade, It would seem that there is definitely an anti-Polish sentiment across a large proportion of British society but as per usual the Brits are too damn lazy and complacent to actually do anything meaningful with their frustrations. Oh, and I AM British by the way.

Here's my two penny worth;

- First off, In my opinion there does seem to be a very large number of Polish who come to the UK and 'milk the system', however I don't feel this is necessarily the fault of Polish people. It was OUR government that made decisions resulting in legislation to let them in. And who elected OUR Government? Yes, YOU!!! Britons. Or at least those of you who could be bothered to vote!! If you read the link posted by a previous poster with the DWP report it seems that Somalians are even greater offenders along with Pakistanis but that isn't being discussed here.

- I consider myself quite Patriotic and it makes my blood boil that our country is getting 'milked' left right and centre not just by Poles but by every nationality immaginable. I blame this largely on the incredibly lax immigration policies of the last labour government and the fact that Britain is seen the world over as a "soft touch" - which it is. Just look at the evidence, we have immigrants coming from all over (both legally and otherwise!), Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Somalia, Senegal, Poland, Romania, Bulgaria, Pakistan, India, etc, etc. The question you have to ask is WHY are they coming? Obviously life here is PERCEIVED as being better than in their homelands, and I don't doubt it is, especially given one previous poster's comments about the polish attitudes likening British Prisons to Spa's!!! Take Romania and Bulgaria for example, when they joined the EU almost every other country placed restrictions on them coming to work in France, Spain, Germany, etc but not Britain - Why are we so afraid of being labelled as racist - NONE of the other EU countries faced any criticism for their controls!!! How is it OUR government were too stupid to realise that if poorer nations like BG & RO joined the EU they would come flooding in in droves?

- I am not just aiming these comments at Polish people, but ALL foreigners (and no I am not racist) I just believe quite simply that the welfare system should be for British people as it is provided BY British people. There should be a simple entitlement test for any EU national that is supposedly entitled to benefits here that goes like this - Have you paid full NI for ten years solid? No, then you get nothing!!! Its that simple.

- Don't get me wrong, I am equally incensed by the numbers of BRITISH people 'on the dole' who just refuse to work. Again where to apportion blame is an entirely different conversation but I can't help but feel that our own government have created a culture of entitlement by the pure nature of the benefits system. For example, when I lived in Spain, if you were unemployed (and Spanish) you were entitled to at least 800€ per month (sometimes more - depending on what you'd paid into the system) BUT only for a maximum period of time like 12 or 24 months. Lets face it ANYONE can find a job in that period IF they REALLY want to!! I think it should be the same here.

- Yes there is an argument that says there would be more jobs for British workers if there weren't so many foreigners working (or as some people say "taking all our jobs") and I agree this is also true. I believe we should be more like the Australians or Americans where a company has to prove they have exhausted every possible option in the local labour market BEFORE they can employ a foreigner. It works fine for them and they are not labelled racists. However, I also appreciate that every argument has two sides and it is also probably true that some migrant workers are willing to do menial jobs that British people don't want to do (but how would their attitude to accepting these jobs change if the alternative was NO BENEFITS?). Likewise I am sure there is probably some truth that some foreign workers will work considerably harder than us Brits! Sad but true.

- What I do object to is the way our government allows our economy to operate like a sieve and yet seems blind to the consequences. For example I know both Polish and Pakistani people (and I am sure many other nationalities too) who work here and send money 'home' to their families. Money that would be spent in the British economy IF their jobs were filled with British workers!!! Who is to blame people - sorry but it is OUR 'BRITISH' government!!!

- And as for the height of stupidity, why on earth does our welfare system pay out benefits to EU nationals for children who are NOT EVEN RESIDENT in the UK??? Seriously what's that all about??? Come on UK wake up - this is ridiculous!!! Someone please explain the justification of this. And it seems this really is a Polish thing with 2/3 of the £36M of overseas child benefit going to Poland!!! To be fair its no more stupid than how we pay UK pensioners a "winter fuel allowance" with their pension EVEN WHEN THEY LIVE IN SPAIN!!!

- And the stupidity doesn't end there. No, if I have researched this correctly any EU citizen can claim benefit in another EU country (so it starts to sound fair - wish I knew this when I was in Spain) with each host nation claiming back the money paid from the home nation of the claimant. But it seems Britain doesn't bother claiming money back from the other nations - we just pay out to them! Now I have only sketched over this subject quickly so I admit I may be misinformed here but I am willing to stand corrected.

- Then there is the issue of crime and how a disproportionately high number of offenders are foreign nationals. Why do they do it. Maybe because they see our system of law and punishment and our police force as weak? Look at how the Police can't use their battons in defence without coming under fire these days. Ever watch those documentaries about police in places like the USA and Spain? Try mouthing off to one of those officers and see what you get. Why we put foreign criminals in our already overcrowded prisons is beyond me. Send them home with a permanent ban on entering Britain again, EVER!

I myself have lived abroad, in Morocco and Spain, and I have seen poverty and I have seen police states where ordinary citizens actually fear the police (not necessarily a bad thing - our crime problems here are a direct result of our 'soft touch' attitude and lack of willingness to punish, but that is another argument entirely. My point is this, When I was abroad, if I needed financial aid (when I lost my job), healthcare (if I was ill), was it available to me - NO!!! Or at least only at cost to myself (in the case of healthcare). These other countries (read pretty much ALL countries) wouldnt support us if we lived there, so why on earth should we support them here???

However, in closing, what I really want to say is this; I appreciate that I have perhaps strong feelings about the above points as do many Brits but instead of coming on here and venting your anger at the Polish (or whatever nationality it seems fashionable to hate at the time), why not do something constructive and write to your MP. Talk to YOUR government. Demonstrate. Do something!!! But do not sit on your backsides complaining if you are not willing to back up your frustrations with a little action. And if you don't vote then to be honest you have no right to say anything. Too many people in our country are nonchalant about voting and yet if they only knew how few votes it would take to make a difference they would be down the polling station pronto. Look at the uprising in Egypt & Libya for example, those were passionate people who had had enough. I am not saying take to the streets or advocating violence but they did something and got change. The little people brought down a president. But not just a president - A Dictator! A man who was prepared to kill them for speaking out. Do we in Britain have such a regime - No!! So why are Brits so afraid / too damn lazy to do anything meaningful?

Remember people YOU put the government in power, either through the process of democracy OR YOUR refusal to take part in it. USE YOUR VOTE!

Tell YOUR government what YOU want them to do. They work for you![i][/i]