Classifieds / Free Beer Brewing lessons in Tri-city. [9]

They automatically appear on the first and last posts of a thread page.

Classifieds / Language exchange group, Tricity [60]

We need more Polish speakers.

Meeting time has been Thursday AM but other times are possible if we can get more participation.

I would be fine with Saturday lunch along Dluga somewhere or right around the parking lot, maybe even meet up on Monte Cassino somewhere once a month for a change of scenery and to start building a satellite group.

Meeting on Thursday, 10:00am at Cafe D' Or on Dluga. If you want to propose a different time we need to hear from you.

News / Barbara Piasecka Johnson, Maid Who Married Multimillionaire, Dies at 76 [57]


And we will never know.

He married her after living with her for a time then left his money to her and not his children who already had trust funds that made them wealthy. They settled, both groups felt "they won" and everyone lived happily ever-after. The lawyers all got new houses and it could be that one of them divorced his wife and married his mistress........

Justice is served......

News / Barbara Piasecka Johnson, Maid Who Married Multimillionaire, Dies at 76 [57]

Not inviting them to the wedding might have been a clue......

Classifieds / Free Beer Brewing lessons in Tri-city. [9]

I just read it, sending you a PM.

News / Barbara Piasecka Johnson, Maid Who Married Multimillionaire, Dies at 76 [57]


Article says about $500 million.

News / Barbara Piasecka Johnson, Maid Who Married Multimillionaire, Dies at 76 [57]


I don't know ZImmy, I "love" the story as well and am happy for her and her husband too.

Sounds like they had a good life and she did what she could to bring culture and happiness to many.

As for the children, they had a party afterward and, courtesy of their trust funds FROM THEIR FATHER are comfortable.

Bill Gates is clear that he doesn't intend to leave his children billions but supports philanthropic projects worldwide. His statement was that he expected to leave them around 10 million or so (think that was 2003 or so dollars) and trust funds to make them comfortable but not super-rich.

Sounds okay to me, it's his money.

Real Estate / Is it possible for a bank to prevent you from selling your apartment at a logical price? [17]

No, I have a pretty clear understanding of that.

You sign a contract and don't fulfill it, you pay a price.

Real Estate / Is it possible for a bank to prevent you from selling your apartment at a logical price? [17]

Maybe next time he'll think twice before signing a mortgage agreement.....?

Maybe not.

Just had a quick talk with my accountant and I'm actually impressed by the quick overview of bankruptcy in Poland. It does take place for both businesses and individuals and calls for strict accounting as to assets and liabilities

You guys are lucky to have a strict system that views non-payment of contractual obligations seriously. That should make your retail banking system stronger than some of the western ones which lost sight of reality by over-extending and -valuing of various assets (including integrity) securing loans.

Well done Poland!

Real Estate / Is it possible for a bank to prevent you from selling your apartment at a logical price? [17]

You guys have a lot to learn about what banks will and will not be willing to do.

How do you think banks fail? They are in business to make money, not provide public services (wait until you discover credit unions). When the market reaches sufficiently widespread turmoil, the banks have just as much incentive to negotiate away from disaster as the individual.

Yes, "walk away" has a price unless you were lucky enough to have someone/institution not require a personal guarantee. You'll take a hit on your credit, possibly have assets seized, perhaps sustain a judgment on future earnings or, face a bankruptcy. This is mentioned above.

If you are solvent, then of course you should pay your bills and get through it if possible. If you are wanting out for some reason (go back and read the OP) then pay your exit costs according to the contract you signed and move on. The bank did nothing wrong as long as the contract was legal.

The point you aren't getting is that when YOU decide to stop paying because of perceived circumstances (value of property, exchange rate fluctuations, loss of income, financial crisis (personal or societal), etc. there are going to be consequences. That is what the guy in the OP wants to avoid but has to face up to eventually. The consequences may be great or small depending on the banks competence and his motivation/eagerness/necessity/whatever to get out from under the mortgage.

Many people, even a few bankers now and then, think there is no renegotiation. Call their bluff.

When you deposit a million zl in the bank they like you, when you owe them a million and they are facing a substantial loss, then they're even nicer.

There's no such thing as a free lunch. - Milton Friedman

USA, Canada / Help get my girlfriend to Canada! [19]

You gotta' be kidding.

As mentioned, get a job.

Real Estate / Is it possible for a bank to prevent you from selling your apartment at a logical price? [17]


This (renegotiation and acceptance of loss) happens everyday in the US and I am pretty sure it is the same here as well. Banks take losses everyday. The only "force" either party is subject to on renegotiation (other than pre-agrred triggers) is the realities of the marketplace unless you have some crazy regulation otherwise.

Foreclosure can go on for years but the man is no longer paying the note.

Real Estate / Is it possible for a bank to prevent you from selling your apartment at a logical price? [17]


Not quite.

Assuming the bank/mortgagee holds a lien on the property (almost universal unless you purchased the property on a purely personal guarantee), they probably can't stop you from trying to sell your property for a price. They CAN stop the sale from being completed until and unless you re-negotiate the terms or are prepared to pay off the mortgage per your contract on completion of the sale.

Before you giggle too much at how stupid that is, you need to back up a step or two.

There are alternatives here for both the bank and the man.

1. The man can sell his apartment simply by going to the bank and declaring his intention to sell it at market price and pay the difference which will pay off the mortgage as originally allowed for as an early payoff in the mortgage agreement/contract. If I was the banker, I would require him to put the expected difference in an escrow account pending the sale. Any offers he gets would require either depositing more money into the forfeiture account or getting the banks agreement to accept a loss. The bank will make the sale conditional on being the recipient of the proceeds then close the escrow account by withdrawing the balance to pay off the loan, refunding any credit for additional payments during the sale process.

2. The man and the bank can attempt to re-negotiate the loan for lower value or (bank's second choice) give the bank all of the proceeds from the sale and then carry the balance as a personal loan, possibly providing other forms of security or payment(s) in kind.

3. If the bank was silly enough to NOT have the man personally liable for the loan but only has security through a lien or chattel arrangement, then the man can say okay and give them the property. Then walk away and never look back.

People do this sort of thing every day. Sometimes both parties agree to it, sometimes one party is forced by the other and sometimes both parties are forced by contract conditions, or triggers, to do so.

Life / American moving to Poland. How do I get/What is the cost of a cell phone, cable, etc...? [16]

Who needs cable tv.......?

Classifieds / Language exchange group, Tricity [60]

We usually meet at Cost Coffee, Dluga location, on Thursday mornings at 9:30 or 10:00 am.

PM Ziutek to get on the email list for notices of times and changes.

Food / can I find curd and sour cream in Poland? [24]

I never buy less than 23% and watch for 30+ in the larger grocery stores.

Love / Observations and experiences so far about Polish women [93]


+ 2 I agree.

Food / can I find curd and sour cream in Poland? [24]

Check the fat content on the label or packaging. Higher is better (with regard to taste). I also suggest a little salt, some garlic, onions and/or pepper, you should get a better flavor and taste. Experiment and enjoy.

USA, Canada / Why do Americans (and Canadians) hate Polish people? [226]

You guys are just too intellectual for me.

Good luck with your.....your lives (for lack of a better term).

USA, Canada / Why do Americans (and Canadians) hate Polish people? [226]



OHHHH! Right.

Well, sure, if it is on the Internet it must be true...................everyone knows that.

Can't imagine what I was thinking.

USA, Canada / Why do Americans (and Canadians) hate Polish people? [226]

I suspect I am quite a bit older than you and I have never in my life heard a joke about a Polish tragedy, in America or anywhere else, ever.

Polish jokes, Mexican jokes, Chinese jokes, even Canadian jokes, yeah, but never a Polish "tragedy".

Real Estate / The current property boom in Poland is a bubble [342]

One has only to stroll down the street and look at the second floors and higher to see banners advertising sales, rentals and such that have been there for years.

The system is well-understood by most economists. Business and economies run in cycles. They self-regulate. When supply is greater than demand, assets sit idle until demand catches up to them. The most common way we see this is with the transaction pricing dynamic. As in the post above, the woman stubbornly holds out for what she thinks is the correct price, ignoring the people making offers in the meantime. At some point, when she realizes she has no more money, her "bubble" will burst and she will lose her place or sell it at the loss she has tried to avoid for all that time. She cannot grasp that her economic situation is of concern to nobody except herself.

Is she right or wrong? Time will tell. If she can afford to hold the asset until demand (offered prices) rises to her desired level then she's right (she'll let you know it too). If she loses everything, rather than accept responsibility for her ignorance and lack of financial sense, she will blame the government, the economy, the mayor, her boyfriend, her neighbors, customers, basically everyone in sight, until she feels better about her failure in her mind.

It's cycles really. This is the mechanism that a free market uses to regulate itself midst the imbalances that occur between supply and demand. As several other threads point out, individuals will always deny that they are in error or have made poor decisions. Believing that the cycles will not assert themselves from time to time is the reason that people will ride a rising market past it's peak and some poor schmuck buy at 1000 a sq meter only to realize a month or two later that the unit next door is selling now for 900/m2. It's why there are winners and losers in life. If everyone was a winner, there would be no contest.

You cannot legislate good judgment or common sense.

Law / Bank accounts taxed by up to 10%. Can it happen in Poland? [150]

Then they can vote in a new government to give them their money back from tax revenues next election, not do business with the miscreant banking institutions and elect a government that will rectify the situation by whatever means is appropriate.

Law / Bank accounts taxed by up to 10%. Can it happen in Poland? [150]

Well done, EU!

Maybe that will get the attention of citizens who do not hold their governments responsible for their actions and/or insist that austerity is for everyone but them, their family, their industry and their union.

America should consider moves like this to stave off the coming disaster or at least buy time.

Australia / Australian citizen wanting to go to Poland for as long as possible - needs Polish Visa [49]

Do you have a job or a reason to request residency in Poland?

USA, Canada / Why do Americans (and Canadians) hate Polish people? [226]

Yeah, there's just some real idiots who like to stir a pot and pray something will rise to the surface.

Love / Mosque and Catholic Church Wedding in Poland. Is That Possible? [21]


As I said, you (and your friend) clearly do not understand what constitutes duress.

It requires threat (usually physical, but sometimes mental) or threat of another unlawful action as a consequence of not doing something.

Duress has two aspects. One is that it negates the person's consent to an act, such as sexual activity or the entering into a contract; or, secondly, as a possible legal defense or justification to an otherwise unlawful act.[1] A defendant utilizing the duress defense admits to breaking the law, but claims that he/she is not liable because, even though the act broke the law, it was only performed because of extreme unlawful pressure.[2] In criminal law, a duress defense is similar to a plea of guilty, admitting partial culpability, so that if the defense is not accepted then the criminal act is admitted.

Catholic society has their rules every bit as much as a community has traffic laws and when your buddy approached them (no threat) and asked for a church marriage (still no threat) they outlined what he had to do in order for that to happen. Unless the priest or the girl's family threatened him, then no, there is no duress.

The rules/laws of society and any religious group (which incidentally includes the Muslims) are the same, exactly. You elect whether you will accept them or not based upon what your desired outcome is.

By your interpretation, Meatloaf was held in duress by the girl's demand that he love her forever if he wanted to "go all the way" by the dashboard lights. He made his choice.

Don't like the church's rules, don't marry the girl at the church. Don't want to accept the speed limits on a highway, don't get a driver's license. Don't want the "home run" on the front seat of the car so bad, don't make promises that you can't keep.

Love / Mosque and Catholic Church Wedding in Poland. Is That Possible? [21]


Ahhhh, so then the person needs to just admit that they're a slave to the wants and desires of others then and get over it. Still, I guess it is true that a large percentage of the population hasn't got the courage to do what they want and feel that society "forces" them to live their lives bound by the rules of others in all things. These people probably feel that Starbucks makes them order under duress by not having pancakes on the menu or that speed limits constitute duress as well.

Love / Mosque and Catholic Church Wedding in Poland. Is That Possible? [21]

Duress?

I agree, there is NO duress here or anywhere in this process.

Seriously, if someone is going to compromise their religious faith(s), why pretend all this?

Tell your parents (and hers) you and your wife will design the ceremony to fit your new life together. Whether it is civil, Catholic or Muslim or any combination of those, do what is right for YOU, not THEM.

Compromise isn't a solution in many areas of life.

Work / Advice on Teaching English in Poland [709]

And a big part of work opportunities in ESL involve figuring out the legalities of work permits, residence status and visas. Since you didn't say anything about being a student, people only were responding to you saying you had been there in Berlin and your remark about business start-ups and software sales

Since you are so smart, I won't be wasting my time anymore responding to this thread.