Po polsku / Co zrobić z "mądrym inaczej", którego zachowanie przejawia się antypolonizmem? [20]


Powiedz mu, że może powinni spróbować kolejny raz. Jak kurz opadnie, to nowa granica polsko-niemiecka będzie chyba na £abie, bo trend z poprzednich dwóch wojen światowych raczej nie był dla nich korzystny. Tyle geopolityka. Jest jeszcze aspekt genetyczny: możesz go spytać, jak na czystość aryjskiej rasy wpłynęła poprzednia wizyta Armii Czerwonej.

Food / The Mystery of Polish Sausage - Interesting kiełbasa link [17]


You don't cook them. You eat them like beef jerky.

USA, Canada / Shipping a piano from Poland to the U.S. [8]


Try: polamercargo.com/kontenery-do-polski-cennik

I shipped some large packages from the U.S. to Poland with them, and it worked flawlessly. Perhaps they ship from Poland to the U.S. too, and you can rent a whole container? This is an option I have been considering for some time, because I too have an upright piano that I want to ship from Poland to the US. This is a 'Legnica', and I am willing to pay for renting a container because of the sentimental value of the instrument. Besides, it is also very well made (compared to these $4,000 mass produced Yamahas). If you rent the whole container, you can package the instrument well and be reasonably certain that it is going to arrive in good shape.

Or maybe you would like to share a container? This may be hard to arrange, but we can ask Polamer.

Life / Typical for the Poloniandists [171]


How come they are typically affiliated with the Democratic party?


Source: apacouncil.info/docs/PolishAmericansToday-PiastInst.pdf

Not that I consider that Democratic affiliation particularly smart. By the way - take a look at that pdf - it paints a picture of the Polonia being neither particularly conservative, nor liberal, but rather libertarian-leaning, compared to the US and Polish general populations.

Life / Individualism in Polish culture...Is it almost Nonexistant? [170]


Kondzior, the art of discussing with Americans (as with any other nationals) involves pulling the right strings. They indeed have been conditioned to fetishize "the law" (consider, for example, the answer the cop gave to Rosa Parks - you can find it on Wikipedia)


They indeed have established a tyranny of the majority, in a manner described by de Tocqueville (Democracy in America, Chapter XV). Morality or utility are too abstract concepts to many of them. To overcome the conditioning, or at least to counter it to some degree, you need to appeal to another strong fetish. To most Americans, the Constitution is such a fetish. So, you don't say "this is immoral". You say "this is unconstitutional!", and your opponent is forced to choose between the law in question and the Constitutional principles.

This is not a dishonest method, by the way, because the Constitution is in fact an embodiment of moral values. According to Andrew Napolitano, the most important word in the Bill of Rights is "the", indicating that the Constitution merely recognizes certain preexisting, natural laws.

Life / Individualism in Polish culture...Is it almost Nonexistant? [170]

merriam-webster.com/dictionary/individualism

In my earlier posts, I have been referring to the first meaning. As for the second meaning, indeed, in terms of "individual peculiarities" and "idiosyncrasies" Poles are not very much diversified.

Life / Individualism in Polish culture...Is it almost Nonexistant? [170]

Are we talking about individualism in the political sense (as opposed to collectivism), or rather individualism being used as a synonym of eccentricism? These are not exactly the same thing, just as their antonyms (collectivism vs. conformism) aren't.

Poles tend to be clearly anti-authoritarian, and this is why I describe them as individualistic. Diversity, IMO, has little to do with individualism (the latter being concerned with the ability of making individual decisions, not with the final outcome).

Life / Individualism in Polish culture...Is it almost Nonexistant? [170]


No. Now my turn. Busted for pedophilia?


Well, actually, he is right, although he may not like the conclusion. Americans (the majority) have indeed forgotten about the principles their country was founded on, and turned into "pragmatic and governable" cattle. He is also right about foreign political dominance over Poland: a free country is a very nice concept, but when it has authoritarian and expansionist neighbors it has a slim chance of survival. So, the funny thing is: Americans are excessively obedient, when in fact there is no such need, while Poles are too individualistic considering their geopolitical situation.

History / "Quiet Hero" a book on Polish Survivors rarely heard - by Rita Cosby [26]


Why wrong? To us, Poles, they were Polish heroes, while the British had every right to call them British heroes - I would perceive it as a honorific. The Flying Tigers were Chinese heroes as well. And completely regardless of their subsequent accepting the citizenship or not, de Lafayette, von Steuben, Kosciuszko and Pulaski can completely naturally be called American heroes.

Life / Individualism in Polish culture...Is it almost Nonexistant? [170]

A new insult from TSA gropers. Lew Rockwell duly reports: "Hey, Serfs!"


Now, back to the subject of the thread: I am a former citizen of a communist, supposedly "totalitarian" country. I don't remember anything like this. It is hard to say how much we, Poles, are individualistic in the absolute terms, but one thing is certain: compared with the present day America, we, in PRL, were a nation of libertarians, living in a society that wasn't trampling too much on our inherent, individual rights. I repeat: compared with the practices in the present-day United States.

History / "Quiet Hero" a book on Polish Survivors rarely heard - by Rita Cosby [26]

Merian C. Cooper in Polish uniform

Why shouldn't we call him a Polish hero, considering that he fought as a Polish soldier in Poland?

Food / Which type of sausage in Poland is closest to an American kielbasa? [23]


If you live in the U.S. try andysdeli.net. The quality is exceptional, but the prices may make you faint.

Genealogy / my Polish Grandfather in Hitler Youth? HOW? [65]


Nothing surprising. Last names can be carried through generations and have little to do with the national identity. According to such mechanism, despite having a Polish name, Erich von dem Bach-Zelewski had nothing to do with Poland. This also worked in the other direction. Adm. Unrug (German ethnic background) declared himself as a Pole and as a POW refused efforts by Germans to switch sides. Same story about the bacteriologist Dr. Rudolf Weigl (typhoid vaccine).

Most likely your ancestors were at least German enough to qualify as Volksdeutsche.

History / "Quiet Hero" a book on Polish Survivors rarely heard - by Rita Cosby [26]

Harry, you wouldn't be yourself if you didn't chime in with another anti-Polish verbal fart. Can Americans call Kościuszko or Pułaski American heroes? Yes, they can and they do. The same logic applies to Merian C. Copper, who was deservedly awarded the Polish Order of Virtuti Militari.

Food / Which type of sausage in Poland is closest to an American kielbasa? [23]


The American Polish sausage is not bad (grilled, or in bigos). On the other hand, there is a reason why genuine kielbasa from a Polish manufacturer in Chicago costs about 3-4 times more than "Polish Sausage" in grocery stores. Try Wiejska or Śląska or anything that looks appealing :) Also, if you like dry salami, give Krakowska and kabanosy a try.

Life / Individualism in Polish culture...Is it almost Nonexistant? [170]

- What about removing your shoes and being groped by TSA?
- What about routine domestic spying (during the martial law in Poland, receiving an envelope with a stamp "censored" was rare and merited a "wow!" Dissidents had to assume that their phone conversations were recorded. You, guys, are recorded EVERY DAY, and once the facility in Utah becomes finished, there will be no technical obstacles to storing your emails and phone talks indefinitely.

- What about the practical invalidation of the 4th Amendment through judicially-developed exceptions (the Terry stop, broadly excused "exigent circumstances", lack of 4th Amendment protection whenever you have "no reasonable expectation of privacy").

- What about the invalidation of the 2nd Amendment, especially in places like California, D.C., Chicago, New York?
- What about the blatant invalidation of the 5th Amendment through the National Defense Authorization Act of 2011 (recently blocked by a federal judge, so apparently some decency have remained in America)

- In what country Waco and Ruby Ridge happened?
- What country holds the world record in incarceration rates? What about "arrests for resisting arrests"?
- What about attempts to strip juries of their traditional right to judge both the defendant and the law itself?
- What about the infamous decision by the Indiana Supreme Court that declared resisting unlawful police entry as illegal (here is a comment by Michelle Malkin -"So Hoosier Staters can now be arrested and charged with "unlawfully resisting an unlawful entry"? Bizarre.")

- What about invoking your own Constitution being officially (by the FBI) declared as suspect and indicating that such a person may be a potential "domestic terrorist"?

I am writing these questions while listening to the sound of fireworks, merrily lighted by sheeple honestly believing that they live in the land of the free and the home of the brave...

Life / Individualism in Polish culture...Is it almost Nonexistant? [170]


You absolutely haven't! This is a public forum, and while I may directly respond to you, I also address issues raised by others. The "polar bears" (figuratively speaking) argument was used by certain others, and that's why I somewhat broadened the scope of my answer to quality of education in general.


Being fluent used to be just a pre-requisite for being admitted to language studies programs. Scholarships in English-speaking countries (usually in Britain) were also part of the curriculum, as far as I know (my high school colleague studied English at the University of Lodz). Naturally, not everywhere things needed to look that good, but it is also hard to believe that Lodz, being not a first-tier academic city, somewhat managed to develop uniquely good language programs.

Life / Individualism in Polish culture...Is it almost Nonexistant? [170]


Still, we are way behind the Western societies on our way to statism. At least when asked about freedoms being taken away in Poland, we can respond with "look who's talking". As for the long term prospects, I am as pessimistic as you are. Democracy and freedom are not necessarily correlated (hardly a surprise, see Alexis de Tocqueville, "Democracy in America", Chapter XV,

xroads.virginia.edu/~HYPER/DETOC/1_ch15.htm
scroll down to "Tyranny of the Majority"). For this reason America was conceived as a republic, not as a democracy, but the Constitutional safeguards against tyranny proved not strong enough.

Life / Individualism in Polish culture...Is it almost Nonexistant? [170]

Granted, not all of them. The Jeffersonian spirit is represented by Ron Paul, Andrew Napolitano, Lew Rockwell and a few others, and about 10% of the population subscribes to similar views. For the rest, the 4th of July is just an occasion to mindlessly mouth the word "freedom" and light fireworks.

Life / Individualism in Polish culture...Is it almost Nonexistant? [170]


This is not consistent with my own experience. First, if you want to use an example of "Kuba na wsi", then compare him with "Jake, farmer's son". Neither is expected to be an Einstein. But when you move a little higher in the social strata (let's make it the high school, "liceum" level), then the education in late PRL was more than decent. Teachers were university graduates, having 4 or 5 years of rigorous training leading to the magister degree. Moreover, language programs were highly selective, and you were expected to be already fluent in English to be admitted. This produced competent teachers, and you didn't have to live in Warsaw to be taught by one. I lived in £ódź, and went to an average high school. Then, I had ONLY NATIVE SPEAKERS as teachers at the university (the Technical University of Lódź). So, based on my own experience, English was widely taught in the late 1980s, and the quality of the instruction was good. Naturally, no instruction can produce native speakers.

Generally, people in the West (and perhaps also the younger generation of Poles too) tend to confuse two things: the cultural sophistication with the economic achievements. Based on the sorry state of the Soviet-style economies they tend to believe that people who lived in Communist states were inept, uneducated, rustic simpletons, looking at the world behind the iron curtain with awe. In fact, the opposite would be justified. Imagine my "awe" when, during my first visit in the United States I went to a university bookstore, opened a math textbook for college students (sic!) and found a chapter dealing with simple operations on fractions!


25 years ago I would disagree with myself too. Living in the United States, having read all the founding documents (happy 4th July, btw.) and treating them seriously, not just as obscure, historical papers written by long dead white people, and seeing what I see in the context of what I remember from being a citizen of a "totalitarian, Communist country", enables me to make educated comparisons. You guys have been downgraded to such a state of obedient sheeple that our old Communist "masters" could only dream of.

Life / Individualism in Polish culture...Is it almost Nonexistant? [170]


Not really, I was too young at that time to be interested in economics. But, on a related subject, you may be interested in an interview with Mieczysław Wilczek - one of the few private entrepreneurs in PRL, later the secretary of industry in Rakowski's government and the author of the radical re-orientation of the economic policies in 1988, BEFORE Mazowiecki and Balcerowicz. "Oto ojciec proszku Ixi"


Very funny. I used to have a plantation of poppies in my garden (for makowiec). Converting them to opium is elementary, and converting to heroin by reacting with acetic anhydride not much harder. Also, what is so hard about harvesting cannabis? Synthetic amphetamine is not a rocket science either - I still have a Polish texbook for pharmacy students (mid 1980s) with a detailed recipe (I bought it for the description of synthesis of pentaerythritol tetranitrate).

I am under the impression that you are one of those believing that polar bears used to roam streets in PRL (impeded only by military checkpoints, where they were asked to show their papers).


My government (although at that time I considered them Soviet nominees, rather than "my government") never made me to take off my shoes. My government never invaded my home. My government actually respected more principles contained in your Bill of Rights than are actually recognized in the present day United States (after all these exceptions manufactured by courts to benefit government functionaries). And my government was nominally a Communist, totalitarian regime. Think about it.

Life / Individualism in Polish culture...Is it almost Nonexistant? [170]


Before 1990: I had two proficient English teachers in high school (an average school; I was too lazy to commute to one of the "better ones", so I chose just a decent one within a walking distance). Then I had English courses at the university, with various teachers, and ALL of them were native speakers (British).

Delphi is absolutely correct: English WAS widely taught before 1990.


It always depends what you are comparing with what. The Communist authorities in Poland were predominantly interested in maintaining the political monopoly. Accordingly, if you wanted to be active politically, you were definitely under much more political control than people in the West were. Also, the economy was supposed to be Marxist (more or less so), so economic activities beyond certain level were controlled too, until the (counter)revolutionary reform by the pseudo-Communist government of Rakowski/Wilczek in 1988.

On the other hand, however, the government wasn't interested in meddling in people's personal lives. There was no "war on drugs", with 70,000 police raids on private homes a year, like in the present-day United States. There was no "war on terror" scare and no associated deprivation of individual rights. No TSA, no groping. There was no "zero tolerance" idiocy that now puts kids in handcuffs for bringing a knife to school (actually, we had a shooting club at school, something that would make U.S. teachers wet their pants). So, I dare to say, an average person in PRL used to be MORE FREE than an average person is in the 2010s United States. But perhaps this just shows not how free PRL was, but rather how controlling the Western societies have become...

Life / Individualism in Polish culture...Is it almost Nonexistant? [170]


Ever heard of the liberum veto?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberum_veto

The Polish culture is probably the most individualistic in the world (to the point of seriously compromising the integrity of subsequent Polish states, especially compared to Poland's neighbors with their "zu befehl" on one hand, and the Asiatic culture of obedience imposed on our Eastern cousins on the other).

USA, Canada / Marriage certificate required for Polish passport (I'm a Polish-American) [9]

Actually, considering the bureaucratic chaos in Polish offices and consulates, PF may be a good place to meet others who already have braved the system. Localization of the birth certificate (as ledski did) should not even be the proper path any more, because it has been replaced by obtaining the so called apostille that makes foreign documents valid in Poland. The governing law (the Hague convention) went into effect in 2005, but bureaucrats don't seem to care. Law is law, bureaucratic practice is bureaucratic practice. I am at the beginning of the process (getting a passport for my daughter), so I cannot share more experiences.

Life / A new Poland's war - the poor vs the rich [81]


I does not depend on how much money you have. I depends on the state of the mind and on the level of demoralization of the person who assigns you to a particular social stratum. Let me illustrate this with an example from my discussion on another forum. It was about schools. I send my daughter to a private school, being barely able to afford the tuition. Every day I take her to school in my 13 years old Subaru, because there are no free school buses for us, the filthy rich. There are no free lunches. Yet for someone who milks the system (funded also by my taxes) by sending his kid to a public school, I am indeed filthy rich, and I should be penalized.

This is not about how much money you earn/have. You are "rich" (and you are treated accordingly) when you disagree with the redistributive policies and attempt to separate yourself from this system.

Life / A new Poland's war - the poor vs the rich [81]

So, communism as the desired solution. Correct? I am not immediately saying "no", but please tell me how do you want to motivate people to work, to delay consumption and other rewards (in order to invest), and how to accommodate these "20" from the Pareto's rule, who are responsible for scientific, technological and economic progress.

Life / A new Poland's war - the poor vs the rich [81]

If they are hard working, then at t=0 they will start accumulating more wealth then the lazy ones, within our model.

Life / A new Poland's war - the poor vs the rich [81]


OK, let us imagine doing such "reset". Then, from t=0 on, the more intelligent and more hard working will start accumulating wealth again, and the lazy/stupid will found the new class of "poor". Then what? Prevent this by imposing communism at t=0, or reset again, after the inequalities become "unbearable"?

Life / A new Poland's war - the poor vs the rich [81]


I recommend Alexis de Tocqueville, "Democracy in America", Chapter XV. Here:
xroads.virginia.edu/~HYPER/DETOC/1_ch15.htm
Democracy can (and does) degenerate into tyranny of the majority, and then you may observe various "do-good" policies. A few examples:

- high taxes imposed by representatives of the indoctrinated mob, which only have the effect of satisfying the mob's sense of envy (from the point of view of economics such taxes eliminate productive jobs and restrain social mobility: the rich remain rich, the poor remain poor)

- in the United States, the push for making home ownership available to everybody. Such a noble idea, wasn't it? Its effects: increasing the availability of loans, RAISING THE PRICES of real estate (Economy 101) and making it UNAVAILABLE to middle class (because they don't own their homes, banks do). College loans (following the same mechanism) should also be mentioned here.

Democracy can, as easily as any individual or collective tyrant, deprive people of opportunities to better their lives. Then they rebel.

Life / A new Poland's war - the poor vs the rich [81]


IMO, the poor rebel when they notice that the system blocks their attempts to get out of poverty. By high taxation. By overregulation. By cracking down on grey market. By all things that restrain social mobility and condemn the poor to remain poor (and dependent on entitlement programs) forever. People can accept being poor if they see improvement or a chance for improvement. When they hit the glass ceiling, they become mad.