History / "Poland's Concentration Camp" ?? [570]


hahaha
So, reading make you sick, right? Troglodytes like you dont read books, because they are obviously too long. Whole your knowledge is superficial and selective, yet you feel smug and superior.

Troglodytes like you have tendency to believe that there is nothing more to learn, so everytime when they hear something new, believe that this is stupid and wrong.

Either way, you proved that i was right. You are closet nazi, who is now dogding the issue.

I won.

History / "Poland's Concentration Camp" ?? [570]


This is not an answer to my question. I was asking for ACCLAIM scholars and you provide me names of some anticommunist second-class historicians who not even use the term "concentration camp".

In fact, by giving me that link, you have just refuted your statement that Poles were running concentration camps after the war.

Some quootes from your link:

"Although the Świętochłowice camp bore the official title of a labour camp, it also fulfilled the function of a penal camp"

"Franz Brachmann recalls that the camp administration was indifferent to the deaths of inmates, and only when almost every single prisoner in barrack 7 (accommodating chiefly members of Nazi organisations) was ill were they provided with medicinal charcoal"

As you can see, those historicians resist to use the term "Polish concentration camp", just like it is clear that those victims of that labour camp were obviously not innocent, since members of nazi organizations hardly ever were such.

So, i will repeat myself. Provide some names of acclaim scholars who claim that Poles were running "CONCENTRATION CAMPS" during and after the war.

As long as you will not give me those names it will be clear that you are a closet nazi.


It is only cheap sophistry of a con-men. You are doing everything to trivalise nazism and depict Poles as someone who was even more criminal than nazis. By doing so, you want to erase remembrance about nazi past, as well as remembrance about nazi terror against Poles, and bit by bit justifying that terror suggesting that those Poles should be condemn equally with nazis. As every con-men you will play a martyr everythime when someone will gonna caught you lying. You dont care about human rights and staff, you just cant come to terms with a fact that nazism was the most genocidal and pathologic creed ever, so to undermine that fact, you have to accuse victims of nazism for even bigger crimes and by doing so you can say that nazis were not doing anything special, since Poles were the same.

You are disgusting.


I see that whole your knowledge comes from wikipedia. Do something crazy for a change and read some good books.

In Poland we say, that if one wants to hit a dog, one will always find a stick. And the same is with people like you. You are looking only for those information that will back your claim, selecting facts and ignoring those that dont compose with your paranoias.

Neither Morel nor Geborski were proven guilty let alone that behaviour of some members of IPN had all the hallmarks of antisemitism when its comes to the former one.

Irony, you are accusing Poles for virulent antisemitism, yet when it really occurs you ignore it. Symptomatic, that would imply, that you dont care about fate of Jews under nazi occupation, but you treat them as an objects, probably to trivalise crimes of real nazis and their collaborators.

Moreover, you are using Goebbels sophistry, to create this duplicitious moral panic. Victims of antinazi resistance were alway presented by nazi propaganda as innocent children and women. You have to prove first that those women in question were not members of nazi organizations, that they were not responsibility for exploting slave laborers. Next, you have to prove that those allegedly children were not members of Hilterjugend.

And don't forget that first of all, Salomon Morel is a Holocaust survivor. What is more interesting, he had been saved by a Pole -Jozef Tkaczyk who later had been designated as one of the Righteous Among the Nations by Yad Vashem for saving Morel's life.

Irony, you try to accuse Poles for Holocaust and killing of Jews and then you are accuse one of those Jews that Poles - contrary to your version of history - saved during Holocaust for being responsibility for killing innocent women, children an men.

You cant forgive him that he survived Holocaust, can you?


So, you cant come to terms with a statement that "(...)Polish society as a whole cannot be seen as a perpetrator-nation(...)" and that is why you select only that part which suits you, then you take this out of context and you are showing the world how Poles were really bad. This is exactly how nazi propaganda worked. I clearly stated that there was a substantial difference between polish nation which was subjected to nazi terror and polish nazi collaborators who betrayed polish society (Jews and Poles alike).


So now, you are playing a fool. Typical behaviour of a closet nazi whose lies are being exposed. You were the one who wrote that: "What you are still refusing to recognise Carol is that Poles ran concentration camps in Poland under the orders of the government of Poland both during and after WWII."

I expect that you will recognise your lie and apologise Poles for your libeling of polish society. Moreover, you still haven't proven that there were any concentration camps after the war in Poland.


Oh my, you are really a drama queen. History teach us that we should be beware of moralists and those who are so smoothly setting themselves up as authorities on human rights, western civilisation and claim the right to become defenders of pompatus values only to point finger and accuse others.

But speaking about those bad things that people did in the past, about which they dont want to learn, so they are bound to repeat them. Have you ever heard about Halabja?

The massacre of the Kurds was something big. It was the first and only time - cannot think of any other incidents - in which gas was used since World War II. This gassing, which was made possible in measure by western corporations which sold Sadaam the raw materials he needed, is one of the great atrocities of the post-WWII period.

It is very symptomatic, that everyone forgot about that crime, about Sadaam accomplices (Western Germany private capitalist companies, Ronald Reagan) , and about Kurds, yet everone is using pompatus language to depict present intervention in Iraq as almost equal to Holocaust. Its quite symptomatic that you stress existence of illegal detention centres in Poland in which small group of people - whose connections with some genuine terrorist groups are quite possible - were being held, yet you completely ignore planning gassing of 10 000 Kurds. Well, I see an analogy between this behaviour and that other one, when you lament about so called "polish concentration camps". You ignore victims of genuine and genocidal terror and simultaneusly to this you create moral panic depicting people who were responsibility for that terror in question as genuine victims. Talking about mistakes that are being repeated.

Bystanders and those who believe that are moraly superior using constantly pompatus language and preach others, are two side of the same coin. The former pretend that they didnt know, while they did know very well what was happening. They like to pose being moralists and point finger on someone else to distract attention from they own sins. This is how many westerners like to behave. Both during WWII and during gassing of Kurds. The latter, like to feel themselves superior towards others and are looking for excuses to dispise and exploite - directly or indirectly - those allegedly morally and culturally inferior. Murderers from Waffen-SS and real nazi collaborators or nazi raptile newspapers always used pompatus language, drenched in hysteria, arrogance, constantly moralising others, only to shift attention from they own crimes and justify them. After the war many nazis and their descendants become philosemits and started accusing everyone for Holocaust. Everyone except nazis and their real collaborators of course.

Your behaviour indicate, that you havent learned anything from the nazi past. Quite on the contrary, you are doing everything to dillute facts.

I reccomend to read prof. Istvan Deak Essays on Hitler's Europe or prof. David Cesarani.
Books are better source of information than wikipedia.

The truth is far more complex. Relations between Christians and Jews in Poland deteriorated in the 1920s and 1930s. But they were not exactly good anywhere in Europe, while Poland was subject to severe social, economic and political tensions. The anti-Jewish nationalists, the Endek party, had a disproportionate impact on public feeling, especially in the cities where there was intense economic competition between communities. This must be contrasted to the existence of liberal elements and a large socialist movement that eschewed all forms of racism. The large and influential Jewish workers' party, the Bund, stood should to shoulder with Polish socialists and trade unionists.

It is true that only a few hundred Jews emerged from the ruins of Warsaw when the city was liberated, but this was partly because they had surfaced, prematurely as it turned out, during the uprising of August 1944. The Polish rebellion was fought over the cellars and hiding places where Jews had been concealed. Had it not been for this catastrophe, the survival rate for Jews in hiding in Warsaw would have been similar to the survival rate of Jews in hiding in the Netherlands."

guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/oct/12/stephen-fry-auschwitz-poland

History / "Poland's Concentration Camp" ?? [570]


Lovely, but i was asking for names of some acclaim scholars who write about polish concentration camps and who claim that Poles were running those camps during and after the War.

As long as you will not provide such names, i will assume that you are just another closet nazi who is doing everything to dillute facts and create impression that victims of nazism - Poles, were worst than nazis.

After the war, during which 3 millions of polish Jews and 2 millions of ethnic Poles had been killed by nazis and their collaborators, those who were responsibility for supporting nazis policies were punish. For you punishing nazis obviously is a crime, for non-nazi people its simply justice

And here is about polish antisemitism:

Weinbaum noted that while "there is a tendency to try and 'contextualize' - as he defines it - the cases in which Poles participated in the annihilation of the Jews in Poland. "Polish society as a whole cannot be seen as a perpetrator-nation, as can be the Lithuanians," he said. While some Poles were complicit in the murder and despoliation of Jews, he noted, "others rescued them."

haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1145183.html

So much for accusing Poles for Holocaust. You should learn to distinguish between polish nazi collaborators, who betrayed polish Jews but also ethnic Poles, and polish nation that was subjected to nazi terror.

Your behavior is quite odd and reminds me about thief who is pointing a finger on innocent people accusing them for stealing.

History / "Poland's Concentration Camp" ?? [570]


Can you provide some more substantial arguments about those camps. Where Poles were running such camps during WWII. Which polish government ordered to build them?

Also, give me the name of some acclaimed scholar who claims that Poles were running concentration camps after the War.

History / Polish soldiers in '68 made Czech men to drink beer from his shoes... [34]

Ok Mr. Cangaroo, I was just asking. You may relax now.

History / Polish soldiers in '68 made Czech men to drink beer from his shoes... [34]


To be frank this is quite irrelevant right now, since the point was that nazis took power through democratic elections, but if you really want to dwell on this, so here we go

[some excerpts from Doris Bergen's "War & Genocide: A Concise History of the Holocaust" (Rowman & Littlefield 2003), pp. 54-57,] :

"Hitler's political position in early 1933 (when he was appointed Chancellor) was not that strong. His party's support had dropped from its July 1932 peak, and even then it had received only 37 percent of the votes cast. . . .

Hitler made his first major move in early 1933 against the Communists, a target he chose with care. Communism could have posed a real threat to Nazi power. Like the Nazi party, the Communist Party had local cells throughout Germany. It was well represented both in the Reichstag and in the streets ... The Communists, however, were an ideal first target for another reason as well; Hitler was guaranteed to have allies against them.


Well i will give you an advice: stop using Goebbels sophistry. You confuse being intelligent with being conceit. Your knowledge about Poland is accidental and superficial, yet you really believe that your knowledge is profound and optimal.

btw
Are you an American?

History / Polish soldiers in '68 made Czech men to drink beer from his shoes... [34]

The Nazis gained political power in Germany's government through a democratic election in 1932. They indeed dismantled democracy, however there is no analogy between Nazi Germany and Communist Poland.


If you equal events from 68 with Nazi invasion and occupation of Poland, so in that case, you are only proving what i had been suspecting. You are a closet nazi.


As a typical anticommunist you are to smug to realise your own ignorance.
First of all, Czechoslovakia was not planning to overthrow the Communism. Quite on the contrary, they were talking all the time about "Socialism with a human face", what is more, they were calling for imposing similar reforms to those that Poles had imposed during "Polish October'56". Some people were even stressing the need of "Polish way to Socialism".

Yet it is clear that the intervention was disgusting, you should bear in mind that Czechs have the biggest sympathy for communist past in a region as well as they are more concern with 1938 than with 1968. So stop using that pretensious anticommunist pompatus language and read some good books.


Can you elaborate on that piece about Ukraine?

What is your source of information btw? Volkischer Beobachter? I have no problems with apology to Lithuanians but I am afraid that Lithuanians have problems with recognizing Ponary Massacre in which 70 000 Jews, 20 000 Poles and 8 000 Russians had been killed by German Nazis and Nazi Lithuanian collaborators.