History / "Poland's Concentration Camp" ?? [570]


Seems to be not only silly, but abusive as well.
Possibly you are envious (I am) that Harry is not burdened with citizenships nationalisms etc.
I am quoting my father: "When someone talks about patriotism see if you still have your walet".
Controversy is a way of enrich ones knowledge, this anonymous medium allows for thrashig thoughts one will be reluctant to voice otherwise.
Question not related: Both my parents were getting very substantial pension supplement (I think after 1992) they both were AK officers. I never asked and now is too late. Anyone knows what that was all about?

History / "Poland's Concentration Camp" ?? [570]

There is nothing in the topic about Nazi death camps.
This discusion is about: ' "Poland's Concentration Camp"???'
Nothing there about WWII camps, it is assumed by most of the participants, but not specifically defined.
Referring to the KZ Auschwitz Germans were killing Poles as well, but while Poles were sent there for specific reason (intelectuals, clergy, military, criminals, disobedient) it was the policy of the German government at the time to exterminate Jews - all Jews, all ages (leaf through the "Main Kampf").

KZ Auschwitz was a concentration camp, it was not designed to murder people. It was a satellite camp Birkenau which was a place specifically set up to kill and dispose. Some survived and even thrived in KZ Auschwitz Stanislaw Grzesiuk for example seem to enjoy his advantages over others in this environment ("Boso ale w Ostrogach"). Others were not so adaptable and perished(my grandfather stopped eating when family was evicted from their home as it was taken over by Germans and died - not a heroic end). Consequences of this Social Darvinism are with us today


Germans were ahead of the world in this respect as well.
Gays (gay) - I think homosectuals is more precise.
Nazi - in context of this discussion I will use German. The Nazis were controlling German government at the time, they were legaly elected. Policies of this government had overwhelming support of the German population. Until the Battle of Stalingrad Hitler was the most popular leader ever of any country.

History / "Poland's Concentration Camp" ?? [570]

It is safe to assume that Harry was born somewhere. As for the country, borders change i.e. someone born before 1972 (?) in Polish Wroclaw will qualify for both Polish and German citizenship. One of my friends was born in the UK emigrated to Australia then moved to Cook Islands when it was under the New Zeeland protectorate. He is actually carrying UK, Australian, new Zeeland, and Cook Island passports.

It looks that Harry is not unhappy, seems to be confident and well informed. As for identity his own is strong enough no need for for a crutch. Patricia, do not despair soon enough Harry will be assigned bio-identity and shrtly later unique resonant circuit and we will be able to keep tabs on him (and terminate him if need arises).

History / "Poland's Concentration Camp" ?? [570]

"Concentration Camp" - name suggests it is a temporary facility to hold a group of people. Name is not implying for it to be a detention or prison. In our painful history we Poles associate it with atrocities; this causes misunderstanding between disputants here. Nothing wrong with that after all in heated, and often off topic squabble (?), everybody learns.

Auschwitz/Oswiecim main camp (these is unchecked information I remember from my father) was originally build as an Austrian military facilities, after Treaty of Versaille buidings were used by some Polish Army unit. Germans expanded it in 1940 and from then on it became famous.

After the WWII Polish authorities were operating it as a prison. As of today KZ Auschwitz it is still being operated by Polish authorities.
Thus, how to name it to avoid confusion? It would not be known if not for Germans converting it to the Auschwitz KZ, it was located in Germany (annexed by the 3rd Reich), it was designed as a KZ and administered by the Germans. There should be no doubt that Germans were responsible for what was done there between 1940 and January 1945.

In any discussion, the point shoud not be to prevail, but by using ones knowledge to educate others, and oneself in the process. It assumes some good will and willingness to learn by both sides. Prerequisite is that both parties know something and are interested in the topic being discussed. Thats why my usual reaction is not to react and let ignorant live in their happy stupidity, it does not harm me and I have no obligation to teach anyone (how selfish).

Harry, it is not directed to you. I found your, however fierce fights, very interesting, and it is because of your comments I writing this. For a long while you were not disclosing your nationality and I enjoyed trying to guess. I did not read all the comments (time). I am sure you find Poles to be chauvinistic and this is true. You have to forgive us for that, but this was what allowed us to survive as a nation against all odds. I assume you live in Warsaw now, since you mention US Embassy in Aleje Ujazdowskie. What a crime it was to build this monstrocity in one of the nicest parts of town. It makes me want to start the Auschwitz again to put an architect (if there was one) and people who approved it there. My hope is that some terrorists are reading this and will get an idea of blowing it up as soon as possible.

General question: Are Jews a nation or is it a religion? I am confused myself. It would be a good new tread, I think.

USA, Canada / Do many Polish people in America hate Americans? [592]

"Hate" toward Americans comes from frustration. There are two obvious reasons of it. First: Educated Poles who come here due to the language problem usually are employed way below their abilities and consequently after the initial period not very happy. They observe their coworkers and observe the level of knowledge far lower than their own and form opinion based on that. The other is a quality and type of US education. Quality is low and schools regardless on level resemble trade schools, consequently society become anti intellectual.

Second: Value system based on money. While very rational in the capitalistic society the expected result is that friendships are eliminated. What Americans called friend is more like business associate, parties are organized for networking. Any type of association has underlying business part in it (sports may be excluded).

Not related to the above, from my very cursory observation Americans are very hard working people, they work harder, longer hours (and years) than any other in the world. As a consequence they accumulate more things than others, but it takes toll on their intellect. Combining it with the level of popular entertainment (this comes to Poland as well) and no wonder that they seem to be intellectually challenged. Consequently Americans are easy target for advertisements and results of their hard work are being wasted.


I hope you will not waste your life. Do not get entangled in an American dream. Hard work, while sometimes a necessity (your parents) is harmful and beyond some point makes little sense. Read a book, throw away TV, go for a walk, do nothing you would be surprised how enriching it is. $4 million of your parents should allow you security and option of not taking part in the rat race.

History / Polish hatred towards Jews... [1290]

The topic of this discussion should be Jews hatred toward Poles and not the other way around. As long as many of the media outlets are in Jewish hands, there is no chance for presenting our point. Is it hey they use that shaming us to force us to accept some demands? What is the reason for this hatred, can it be money? I just can not figure out where the money is. Do they expect some reparations? Possibly compensations for lost property. Is it that some can claim Polish citizenship now as a means of entry to Europe?

Possibly to force Polish government to support Israel regardless of circumstances (similar to German government).
Since we do not have access to the world media we cannot do anything about it. As for actions of our government, the best position would be to indicate that it does not make Poles friendly toward them. Government may indicate that under a pressure of population it may not be so supportive of Israel on the international arena. Treat them as adversary.

On the long run it is going to harm them, and as usual it will harm most those who do not deserve it.
There is that clever thing in it: Is it a religion or the nation? One should treat it as one and the same. Because of the "law of return" every Jew is a citizen of the state of Israel. Every Jew is concerned with this state and Israel can influence his actions.

History / Polish hatred towards Jews... [1290]

One sided or mutual.
One of my very Jewish friend told me story that when his grandfather wanted his father to go into business with Poles grandfather sent him to learn polish. After 450 years this family did not know language of a country they lived in. His explanation was that Polish culture had not much to offer, indeed German Jews were quite integrated. Another reason for animosities is the position Jews were placed in: not being allowed to own land, money lending (it was an "unchristian", but necessary), small trade (below dignity of szlachta and above abilities of peasantry). Big part of separating these communities (nations?) was Rabbis, imagine what will happen to them and hereditary Rebbes would Polish Jews assimilate. My mother was watching end of Warsaw Ghetto Uprising from the groudns of Palac Krasinskich and it was traumatic for her. Sometime before she run away after being caught passing messages through the gate to the Getto. After WWII Poland had Russian imposed government run till 1953 by "troika" Bierut (president), Berman (State Security), and Minc (Prime Minister for Economic Affairs). The last two being Jewish. Most of the State Security top officials were Jewish. This was during the time of Bloody terror in Poland. I think he solution is a divorce, peaceful if possible. In my humble opinion polish government should use its leverage being a member of EU and give an indication to Israeli politicians and international Jewry indication that it will use its vote accordingly to their actions.

News / 10,000 ISRAELIS READY TO CLAIM FOR POLISH CITIZENSHIP AND POLISH LAND! [628]

CROW - Thanks for words of wisdom. It seems that people in danger and oppression are smarter. Hope that things will turn well for you guys. I think you are being sold by Bushy idiot to show that he is not anti-Muslim.

All the best Bratko

News / 10,000 ISRAELIS READY TO CLAIM FOR POLISH CITIZENSHIP AND POLISH LAND! [628]

Like any other serious problem issue of compensations is not easy to solve. Discussion like this is helpful as it allows for various ideas to be aired, not that it leads to solutions, but one can hope that it filters to the decisionmakers or advisors.

Here is one of these for what it is worth (as it is free its worth just as much). The whole problem was not caused by an independent Polish government neither by its people. Land and property would not stay vacant. Even if it would it will be confiscated for not payment of taxes. For whatever the reason prior owners were not claiming it (neither they did pay taxes nor maintained it). I will suggest that in these cases they should be requesting to be compensated by those who caused the whole problem. It is similar to the case of liability for property damage.

There were, I can imagine, some cases where Polish government expelled some people for no good reason and gave them no time to dispose their property or illegally confiscated it – than the gov should compensate owners. In cases where owners run away from the dangerous neighbours I will suggest courts should decide, but since owners did not expressed any interest for a long time the property can e considered abandoned.

Here is something to consider: would any compensation be awarded either in individual or group the funds should go to the pool from which all similar compensations should be paid. One would expect the Palestinians should be compensated for their losses as well. There will be a problem of proof of ownership, specially in the poorly administered regions, but these are solvable.

In ancient times wars were ending by killing all adult population of the loosing side - problem solved. Germans were allowed to live , but since they were allowed to survive as Germans they should be doomed to live in perpetual agony (only those who are able to think, rest basks in glory of past power and present achievements).