UK, Ireland / Polish immigration in UK [491]

How about we reach a compromise - the UK can immediately remove the top 100,000 foreign nationals costing the British citizen the most money? Hell I'm feeling generous - lets make it 500,000 or even a million!

Now before the Pole bashers get excited, not one single Pole will be leaving the UK as they are not a drain on Britain when considered against other ethnic groups.

Now here comes the good news - if we remove one million immigrant drainers, you'll be saving the British government nearly 300,000,000.

UK, Ireland / Polish immigration in UK [491]


They already visit Poland - I believe they're called 'stag weekends'....

UK, Ireland / Polish immigration in UK [491]


No, but there are a number of British nationals who utilise the purchasing power of the pound to go to places such as Spain or France or even further afield to retire in a better style than they could afford here in the UK. There are a number of British nationals buying up property in Poland currently, and they have also started on Croatia. I admit that the immigration has been mostly one sided, however there are still some canny Brits waiting to make a killing on the speculative property market.

UK, Ireland / Polish immigration in UK [491]


Foreign property investors are pushing up property values in Poland, and making a killing in the process. At the same time, Polish nationals are being priced out of buying a home by purchasers from abroad.

There are some members of the British public who would like to believe that the Britain/Poland relationship is all one way traffic; however there are plenty of British people who are benefitting from the Poles, and there are Poles suffering, just as there are British people who are being disadvantaged. Like most things in life, there are winners and losers, but the biggest losers are those who just sit on their backsides and moan rather than getting up and doing their best to improve their lives (like the majority of the Poles).


Personally I think you need to clean your glasses Shelley..

UK, Ireland / Polish immigration in UK [491]

There are plenty of foreign investors in Poland; my Polish language class of 10 was made up of one guy learning it for work (unrelated to property), five guys wanting to pick up girls (they find English women unappealing) and four guys who are part of a larger group investing in property.


It is well known that the British favour the Polish plumber or builder because they have an expectation (which in the majority is met) of quality work at a reasonable price - that is a benefit.

A reliable and motivated workforce is available for industries, including those in more rural areas that struggled to retain British workers who preferred to either collect benefits or move to larger centres seeking other opportunities. This ensures they can keep operating their businesses. As well as income tax, there are also company taxes to be paid, and goods can be obtained at a reasonable cost.

Lets face it Shelley, given that English workers have developed a reputation for laziness and skivving, is it any surprise that English employers seek an honest and hardworking staff member? As for working for £5.00, not all immigrants work for that (the average Polish hourly rate is £8.30). I personally wouldn't get out of bed for that, but I also recognise that due to my skills, I can obtain a higher wage. Possibly if you don't wish to work for £5.00 per hour, you could reconsider retraining or expanding your skill set? Age is not a barrier unless you let it be an excuse for laziness.


Actually, I'm not English.

As I've stated many times before, the Polish are being singled out unfairly. How about these for some figures?
Somalia - 81% not working; 39% claiming income support; 80% in social housing
Turkey - 59% not working; 21% claiming income support; 49% in social housing
Bangladesh - 56% not working; 11% claiming income support; 41% in social housing
Pakistan - 55% not working; 11% claiming income support; 15% in social housing
Iran - 48% not working; 10% claiming income support; 33% in social housing
Cyprus - 32% not working; 9% claiming income support; 16% in social housing
Jamaica - 31% not working; 6% claiming income support; 35% in social housing
China - 31% not working; 2% claiming income support; 9% in social housing
Portugal - 30% not working; 7% claiming income support; 40% in social housing
India - 29% not working; 3% claiming income support; 8% in social housing
Zimbabwe - 15% not working; 3% claiming income support; 20% in social housing
France - 15% not working; 1% claiming income support; 5% in social housing
Australia - 11% not working; 1% claiming income support; 5% in social housing
Canada - 15% not working; 2% claiming income support; 8% in social housing
Poland - 15% not working; 1% claiming income support; 8% in social housing
If you returned or simply ceased to support the top five drains on British society, the resulting cashflow could be more fairly distributed, whether that was for education, healthcare, social housing or just help the poor and old. I'm not necessarily saying that would solve everything, but it does show that the biggest drains on British government funds are not the Polish.

UK, Ireland / Polish immigration in UK [491]



Sorry apologies they were mentioned -
UK- 22% not working; 4% claiming income support; 17% in social housing

UK, Ireland / Polish immigration in UK [491]



Rank Country of birth Average hourly pay
1 USA £17.10
2 Canada £15.60
3 Australia £15.20
4 South Africa £13.50
5 Uganda £13.40
6 Republic of Ireland £13.10
7 Kenya £12.50
8 France £12.30
9 Italy £11.90
10 Cyprus £11.70
11 Jamaica £11.60
12 India £11.50
13= UK £11.10
13= Zimbabwe £11.10
15 Nigeria £10.80
16 Sri Lanka £10.50
17 Pakistan £10.20
18 China £10.10
19= Ghana £9.40
19= Iran £9.40
21 Bangladesh £9.30
22 Philippines £9.10
23 Turkey £8.90
24 Portugal £8.70
25 Somalia £8.50
26 Poland £8.30

UK, Ireland / Polish immigration in UK [491]


Britains Immigrants Report by the IPPR

UK, Ireland / Polish immigration in UK [491]


I have to admit I was surprised to learn that the UK only brought in the minimum wage in 1998 whereas it began in New Zealand in 1896 - more than a hundred years earlier. I also believe that the minimum wage is set too low to be realistic for those supporting a family. However that is not the fault of the Polish, but rather the British voter who has allowed the politicians.

As for those who are low skilled, and generally restricted to low paying jobs, what is stopping you from retraining? I doubt that any of you are stupid, so why not motivate yourself to learn new skills, to make you more valuable to an employer?


Sorry to disappoint you Shelley, but I have a five year work permit issued by the Home Office as Im a Highly Skilled Migrant possessing skills identified by the British Government as being highly desirable. The right for an opinion is given by the fact I pay high levels of taxes and NI contributions. I'm also entitled to vote in the UK.


The Annual work hours (source: OECD (2004), OECD in Figures, OECD, Paris. shows that workers in Great Britain work on average 1652 hours per annum; New Zealand 1767 hours and Poland 1984 hours. South Korea have the most recorded working hours, at 2390 hours per annum.

UK, Ireland / Polish immigration in UK [491]


There is no need on my part to big myself up; to be granted a HSMP, you have to show that you have earning potential and skills desirable in the UK. I proved it, I got the HSMP granted. End of story.


If someone really does want to better themselves, they will achieve it. Without giving you a hard luck story, I’ve dragged myself up by the bootstraps, working 45+ hour weeks and studying part time (which I paid for) while looking after my partner while he was sick, and if I can do it without any handouts, so can you or anyone else who wants a better life. If someone wants to progress in life, they need to invest time and money in themselves rather than making excuses and belittling those who are achieving more than they are, as the moaners and complainers merely look small minded and ignorant.


Not everyone in the UK is a lazy scrounger, and not everyone needs to blame someone else. A lot of the British I meet are hardworking, decent, honourable people. It’s just a few vocal moaners who prefer to absolve themselves of responsibility for their own lives.

UK, Ireland / Polish immigration in UK [491]


The data you quote comes from a report by the International Labour Organisation. The data contained within the report is from 2004.

UK, Ireland / Polish immigration in UK [491]

The hard story would have been giving the full details rather than the bare bones..


Low skilled doesn't mean an idiot, and I apologise if I've given you the impression that I thought that. I don't know how old you are (so please don't get offended), but I understand that a couple of decades ago, it was possible to leave at 15 or 16, and settle in for a job supposedly for life. I understand that the world has changed, and there are some who have experienced bigger changes than others, such as yourself it appears.


Thats a healthy attitude to have; I only wish it was valued more in a financial sense. I really don't understand why the minimum wage is so low, as there are bigger corporates who are making good money who should be spreading a bit more of the wealth around (which is not the fault of the Polish).


I can understand there are some lazy jobsworths who are more interested in massaging the figures, so they put dole bludgers on courses to make them look like active job seekers instead of bums (unfortunately it happens in many countries). Any chance of doing training by correspondence, depending of course on what you would like to do. It does seem as though you're happy to use your brains and you seem smart enough from your posts on here; what about doing a TEFL course, and perhaps teaching English to the Polish in your area (although I'm not sure what the pay rates are for teaching English as a second language in the UK).

UK, Ireland / Polish immigration in UK [491]


Yes, and they need to have motivation to change it. I'm not up to date on the number of people receiving the minimum wage in the UK who are eligible to vote, but I would still hazard a guess that there are enough to make a difference. If they were vocal about increases, perhaps then the government would listen. From my experiences in the UK, it seems that the major political parties listen a lot to corporate business, but not to the 'Joe Average' worker. The minimum wage in my native country has doubled in ten years; in the same period for the UK it began at £3.60 (April 1997) and is currently £5.52. If it could rise to £7.20, it would be a great help to the low paid worker in the UK.


It is the same in many countries unfortunately, not just the US or the UK. I do support higher taxes for those in higher income brackets; realistically does someone need a 100k bonus on top of a 400k salary? Perhaps if there was some correlation in company tax in relation to staff wages, it would motivate employers to pay more reasonable wages.

UK, Ireland / Polish immigration in UK [491]

In the 1960s and 1970s there was huge amounts of immigration to Australia and New Zealand by Irish, English, Scottish and Welsh nationals, and it impacted on the salaries of Australians and New Zealanders. Those same countries also received large amounts of displaced persons after WWII (which is how most of my family ended up leaving Europe), and during the 70s and 80s, Polynesian Islanders also began chasing the opportunities in New Zealand, and to some extents, Australia. New Zealand is now host to the largest Polynesian city in the world (250,000 plus and counting), and there are now four times as many Niueans in New Zealand than there are in Niue. Both Australia and New Zealand have embraced the opportunities that migrant labour can bring, strengthening their work force, and now have some of the lowest unemployment rates in developed world maintaining strong economic growth. However they do place restrictions on benefits and social housing, in that migrants cannot claim for benefits and housing until they have been there for between two to five years; possibly that might be something Britain could look at?

A study published last week stated that 69% of British people believe that Polish employees work harder than British employees. On the flipside, they came last in a list of nationalities British people would like to spend a weekend with.

For many years, the world has been talking of a ‘global economy’, and now the global economy is coming to the UK, in the form of the EU worker.

UK, Ireland / Polish immigration in UK [491]


Tories renew call for migrant limit as diligent Poles impress Britons

news.independent.co.uk/uk/politics/article3121176.ece
ComRes survey


Its not relevant, but my Dad left school at 15 as he wanted to be a jockey; all went well until he was 21, when he fell during a race and copped a hoof to the eye socket, blinding him in one eye. He couldn’t ride anymore, but didn’t have the education to go into office work or go to university. He worked hard, possibly had a bit of ‘right time, right place’ luck, and he’s now a supervisor manager… Dad might not have bunch of papers hanging on his office wall, but he ain’t stupid, and he’s achieved what he wants to do (plus he sometimes gets to train horses in his spare time, which keeps him happy). I guess that’s why I don’t believe that low skilled or even low educated necessarily has to mean stupid. Dad always drummed into us ‘You’ve got two arms, two legs, and a brain, so you work’, and touch wood, my siblings and I are sticking to that.


If it helps, when I do back home, I am hoping to do a TEFL course as well; we have a large, mainly Asian, immigrant population. I can’t remember where I saw it, but a few places do offer it by correspondence. If you do decide to go ahead and do it, let me know how it goes?


The majority of British people are really good... like most things, a few bad eggs spoils everything and gives a bad reputation. There are all sorts of generalisations and stereotypes of different nationalities, but as I travel, I’ve been fortunate to discover that the majority of people are good people just wanting to be happy in their own way.

UK, Ireland / How many of your co-workers in the UK are Polish? [30]

I think it depends (unfortunately) on the industry... I work for a huge company (FTSE-100) so I would be here until Christmas 2198 working it all out, but there are no Poles in my team. However our company cafeterias are many staffed with Polish, and I know of about six other Poles in my building working in 'white collar' roles, two of which were originally working the cafeteria, but successfully applied for new roles.

UK, Ireland / How many of your co-workers in the UK are Polish? [30]

Burmese, Sri Lankan, Malaysia, Romanian, Indian, Pakistani, English, Scottish, and one lone Kiwi... well at least in my department

UK, Ireland / What do you hate about England and English people? [142]

I hate the 'Its not my job' mentality.. usually involving call centres and long queues.

I also hate waitresses and sales assistants with no manners

(one gem of a waitress in Wigan actually pulled her ringing mobile out of her apron pocket while taking our order, had a quick chat, put her mobile back in her pocket, and continued taking our order... ignoring the fact we'd just heard her evening plans with her mate's boyfriend)

Stupid excuses on the tube.. including leaves on the line, sunshine in their eyes (they're on bloody tracks!), tracks too hot, tracks too cold, tracks covered in snow, staff shortages... lots and lots of excuses.

But mostly the UK isn't too bad... though a bit more deodorant on the tube especially in summer wouldn't go amiss.

UK, Ireland / What do you hate about England and English people? [142]


I don't want sales assistants who immediately think behaving as though they are your best friend will boost their sales commission, but the ones who just grunt and don't offer a simple 'hello', 'That will be £xx.xx' and 'thank you' are the ones who get on my wick.


Flights are getting cheaper though...

And it could be worse - its 27 hours by plane for me to go home for a visit (one way)

UK, Ireland / What do you hate about England and English people? [142]


Its not Network Rail but TFL that make that decision, in conjuction with the maintenance companies Metronet and Tube. The Victoria line (which is where I've twice heard the excuse of 'leaves on the line' in the past couple of months) operates fully underground.

Unfortunately there is a history of giving commuters false excuses as to the real reason for delays on the Tube. Recently we had issues on the tube where they stated to commuters that there were staff shortages when we were all sitting there reading the newspapers where drivers were saying they refused to drive the trains due to brake issues.

UK, Ireland / What do you hate about England and English people? [142]

Are you still current? If so, then you may be working with my brother.

But since you're here, any explanation why they offer the leaves on the line excuse for an underground line? Or state staff shortages when its a safety concern?

Food / Pierogi Dough [30]

I tried once to make pierogis... not very successful at all (although my boyfriend did eat them - bless his heart).

One day I think I'm going to hire someone to teach me how to cook some traditional Polish food...

UK, Ireland / Polish immigration in UK [491]


Its a shame that on your travels you haven't learnt a basic level of English, allowing you to communicate effectively.
How do you know they are Polish? Are you going up to each and every one requesting their nationality status? Somalians, Bangladeshis, Pakistanis, Chinese, Iranians, Portugese, Indians - are all more dependent on the UK's social services than the Polish.

For my own curiousity, what nationality are you?

UK, Ireland / Polish immigration in UK [491]


He only JUST gets his point across... Its hard to see amongst the rambling and the mistakes.
But thanks for the career suggestion :-)

Love / Are there Polish women who date black guys? [281]

Some Finnish friends had a preference for black guys... and have to admit, it seemed like there were some black guys who had a preference for blonde, blue eyed girls.. So I'm sure you'd get a Polish girl or two with a black man preference.

UK, Ireland / What do Polish people think about Wales and Welsh people? [191]

As a Kiwi, I have a great affinity with the Welsh... both nationalities get mocked for the sheep population, plus they are one rugby team we are guaranteed to beat :-)

Travel / Regular UK visitor to Krakow - How to meet people and make friends? [56]

I found the Irish embassy when I was in Krakow... full of tourists, but they were friendly. Otherwise I was a bit crap at meeting Polish people, which is a shame. I want to go back again for Easter next year (the next time I will have any holidays), but can't find anyone willing to go with me..

UK, Ireland / Polish immigration in UK [491]

Lenny, I'd like to see your source, as the various economic reports I've read have shown that Polish immigrants make contributions to the British economy whereas other ethnic groups are bigger drains on Britain. If you are Somalian, you are five and half times more likely to be unemployed than a Polish person, or four times more likely to be unemployed than a British person. A Turkish person is four times more likely to be unemployed than a Polish person, or two and half times more likely to be unemployed than a British person - and the Turkish gangs are responsible for the majority of heroin imports into the UK.


Lenny, you are completely ignorant. I've stated many times on this board that I'm not Polish - I'm from New Zealand. I had a permit to move to Ireland, but the company I work for could not recruit anyone to do my job as well as I do, so they asked me to stay. My boyfriend is in Ireland, so understandably it had to be made financially worth my while to stay in the UK and to encourage him to give up his job to move here, so don't you think if the company thought they could find a British person to do the job, they would have? I'm all for people getting jobs, but they have to have the skills to actually do the work, and in my case, there wasn't


My family has actually fought in several wars on behalf of the United Kingdom. My paternal great grandfather was born in Ireland, and my maternal great grandparents were born in Lancashire. Two of my great uncles, my great-grandfather and one of my great aunts on the maternal side died in WW1 on my as part of British army, and my grandfather on my paternal side spent seven years away from his family, coming back a shell. Great Britain got more than its pound of flesh from New Zealand - and my family. My extended family (stepmother, step grandparents, step great grandmother, three sisters, three husbands and fourteen children etc) are all English, but despite being recent immigrants to NZ, are benefiting quite well from New Zealand, so given that New Zealand has absorbed 20-plus English people, I think gaining me is a very good deal for the UK.

UK, Ireland / Polish immigration in UK [491]

The Imperial Troops were not needed to fight the Maori until after the Treaty of Waitangi was signed in 1840 as the British made promises they did not intend to keep. As soon as the treaty was agreed (thereby giving control to the British rather than the French, who were settled in Akaroa and who were also in negotiations with the Maori), the British began to impose their way of life on the Maori, including removal from their land (which brought about the Maori Land Wars in the mid 1800's).

However, to answer your question, yes I am of Maori descent and I am registered on the Maori electoral role under Ngai Tahu.

Almost everyone in the world is an immigrant, including the British; the UK has been repeatedly settled by immigrants including the Romans, the Celtics, the Saxons and the Jutes.

UK, Ireland / Polish immigration in UK [491]

I don't slag the British off or Great Britain... if you would like to read my posts, I've said there are plenty of things that are good about the UK and its people. What I don't like about some members of the British population is their desire to blame the Poles for everything and anything that goes wrong. There are immigrant groups who are actually drains on Britain, but they are not the Polish. However, it does seem to be fashionable to blame the Poles anyway rather than looking at the evidence.

Meanwhile just for your future reference, going through my family tree I can identify English, Irish, German, Serbian, French, and Maori blood. New Zealand is a country of immigrants, and we're proud of it.