Language / Polish or any Slavic language key to any other Slavic languages? [126]

Interesting topic, hehe. :) As an outsider, a Hungarian who is Slovak on the mother's grandparents' side, I do think that learning one Slavic language is "enough" (I put it in double quotes). I can't speak Slovakian (well, the archaic Slovakian, actually, that elderly people still speak in my region), though with this heritage, plus my primitive Russian (as everyone had to learn it up until before '90.....), I still has an advantage in understanding Polish.


Apart from this, interestingly, we discovered with my Polish friends that we have lots of words in common -- first of all, k*rwa/k*rva, of course. :) Hungarian do seem to have preserved some Slavic loanwords. The above mentioned gołąb - galamb is one of them. (Which is "holub" in Slovakian, we even have people with this surname in my region! It's interesting that the starting "g" is usually "h" in Slovak/Czech and Russian. "Gamburger" always made us laugh at Russian lessons. :)

Language / Polish/Ukrainian words similarities [209]

I would say that Polish is easier to learn than Russian. It could be personal, though. Back in those days "we'd been taught Russian" (i.e. it was mandatory for schools to teach it) and everyone hated the language, because we hated the 'Russkie' oppression itself. In Slavic countries, they were more successful as the language didn't sound foreign. (And, of course, language-teaching was far more less sophisticated than today in our world of the internet and multimedia.)

I forgot nearly everything, but still helps me in my Polish. (Mostly basic things like numbers, names in the family tree etc., but here and there even some more difficult things just "pop in" from my forgotten Russian.) Sometimes we even joke with our "reminiscent" Russian knowledge with my Polish colleagues, ha-ha. :)

There's one thing no one has yet mentioned: the sexual discriminatory nature of Slavic languages. ;o) It still does my head in that everybody and everything is either masculine or feminin or neutral in gender, plus even in plural there's a difference between a masculine and a feminine/non-masculine "they"!

History / Pole, Hungarian, two good friends [58]


Nope, it all goes back to the "extreme political conditions" after the First World War, namely the Trianon "Peace" Treaty. All our neighbours feel antipathy towards us. And antipathy is a very PC word here. The exceptions are the peaceful and lovely Croatia and Slovenia. And Austria, of course, our brother-in-law. :) Poland is totally out of question. I doubt anyone would be negative towards someone with a Polish nationality in Hungary.

Luckily, it all different when we are abroad. I've never had problems with Slovaks in England, and I would have no antipathy towards Serbians and Romanians, if I ever met them here. (Let's just leave our hostilities at home!)

About genetic backgrounds: in my origin, I am Slovak on my mother's grandparents' side. After the 150 years of the Turkish Occupation, Slovakian settlers had been brought into various parts of Hungary at the beginning of the 1700s to re-populate the abandoned areas. Old people are still bi-lingual in my region, they speak both the old Slovakian and the Hungarian language. But very few of the young generations can speak or understand Slovakian. I regard myself a Hungarian.

To put it in a nutshell: I don't think anyone really gives a toss about genetic origins in Central/Eastern Europe. It's more about speaking the language. Compare: you can be an Irishmen/-woman if you can't speak or understand Irish Gaelic. But you can't be a Hungarian, Slovakian, Serbian, Romanian etc. etc. if you don't speak the relevant language!

This is my experience, at least. I can be mistaken. Cheers.

Language / Listening to music and learning Polish [45]

Hi! Anyone knows the artist & song titles for these? Thank you in advance.

Language / Listening to music and learning Polish [45]

Krzysztof:
thank you very much!




:D

Language / Poland in different languages? [74]

It's as simple as it is:

lengyel = Polak, Polka; polski, polska, polskie (Pole; Polish)
ország = kraj (country, land)
Lengyelország = Polska(Poland)

(We also use polyák [pojak (poy-ah-k)], but today it may have a little bit of a derogatory sense, just as Madziar in Polish.)

32 cases? (Hmm, is it really that many?) I still think it's nothing compared to the struggle of Polish cases with all the nifty masculine (ziwotny/nieziwotny!), feminine, neuter, plural masculine, plural other genders..... If you take that, you'll easily get about 7×6 cases! :o)

Language / Poland in different languages? [74]

Magdalena, mafketis (& sorry for all the others for being off-topic ^^):

I can't really argue. Some things to clarify:


Yep, in Hungarian, you can't draw up a table of "cases" like in Slavonic (and Latinic and Germanic) languages. The logic is different. But let's save you from the "off-forum" details! :)


Nearly. :) If I take your example: first, there are no grammatical genders in Hungarian. Second, the grammatical number is much more simple and easier than in Polish. (Or in English! Really, there's only single and plural, and in certain instances we do not even have to use the plural as it is "obvious" - for us - in the context. We have to struggle in English that two cat is not "two cat", but two cats, LoL!)

You're right, though, Hungarian has loads of suffixes. I can see only a fragment of these kinds in Polish. We have "modificator" suffixes that can "translate" verbs, nouns, adjectives etc. back and forth (i.e. verb->noun, noun->adjective etc. + vice versa). That's why we even have stupid, "trendy" verbs like shoppingolni (yeah, that is shoppingować in Polish), as we can simply treat any word as a "root", even foreign ones like that, then "integrate" them in the language.


Elolvastad is the translation for przeczytałeś. Megolvastad has an archaic taste, and it refers to counting ("reading") money, i.e. "you have counted it". (Or "you have counted them", whatever...)

The t is really the past tense marker there. In present tense: elolvasod or elolvasol (as we have two conjugations in present, so-called definitive and indefinitive -- actually the only "feature" of the language that foreign learners can never attain perfectly).

Alles Gute. :)

Language / Poland in different languages? [74]

mafketis:
they are different because of the "assimilation". For instance, the past tense of olvasom could have been olvastom in some time before, but the o has shifted to a. And some endings are shortened, pl. mondotta -> mondta ([he/she] said [it]).

I get your point, though. The conjugation charts are made up by linguists, and can be very confusing to follow. Home-made charts are more useful in the early stages, when you just want to grasp the logic of a language, not the actual and "dry" grammar. :)


Yes, because -lak/-lek has something like a reflexive meaning. I.e. olvaslak = I (I'll) read you -- LoL, you never say that in real life. I don't know the grammatical term, but it is used in a person-to-person(s) situation. Megmondalak [téged/titeket] = I('ll) report you / you lot; kihajítalak (kihajítlak) = I('ll) chuck you (lot) out etc.

Language / Poland in different languages? [74]

The basic word order has much in common with Polish. Or at least it's much harder for an English speaker to get used to it. :)

Language / Podcasts in Polish at higher levels than beginner [10]

BloggyPolish offers podcasts and texts for learners at different levels. They seem to update the blog time to time. Use the tags to search for intermediate posts.

+ this is a useful topic to check: Polish Language Learning Links

Language / Poland in different languages? [74]

Can’t really think of an example at the moment, but the English in my class sometimes have problems to understand how to build up a Polish phrase. Starting with “to be”. E.g. you don't have to say “ja jestem” unless you want to emphasise it in the context.

Language / Poland in different languages? [74]

Marek:
hmm... I disagree in some sense as we have some common/mutual words on a smaller international scale. (The first one being the notorious K word, of course, I don't have to list that. :)

bób = bab
byk = bika
cegła = tégla
cel = cél
ćwikła = cékla
cud = csoda (csuda in archaic/dialectical)
drut = drót (drút in arch./dial.)
dziecko = gyerek
gołąb = galamb
kaczka = kacsa
kapelusz = kalap
klucz = kulcs
kreda = kréta
łańcuch = lánc
mak = mák
niedźwiedź = medve
piekło = pokol
sąsiad = szomszéd
siekiera = szekerce
szabla = szablya
taniec = tánc
teczka = táska
wiadro = vödör/veder
wnok = unoka

To name just a few. Not to mention the most inter-intelligible ones like czapka/sapka, delfin/delfin, pingwin/pingvin, czekolada/csokoládé, kukurydza/kukorica, papryka/paprika, kapusta/káposzta, sałata/saláta, malina/málna, kuchnia/konyha etc. etc. (I'm getting hungry now.)

Language / Recommended for learners: Michel Thomas Method Polish Audiobook [60]

What a flaming topic.

I had a good English teacher and he was not a native speaker. He had an accent, of course, all non-native speakers have. When we started at grammar school, he spent more than a week to teach the phonetics. As a foreigner, you won't ever be perfect, but the miracle lies in the thing that non-native speakers must make the effort and learn the pronounciation as good as they can (regardless the actual English accent they acquire in their studies or neighbourhood). In my experience, most non-native English speakers find it hard to make that effort.

Language teaching in East-Europe has always had an emphasis on grammar. They - nearly literally - pound it in your head. Then you go to England (or anywhere) and you find that they use double negation and the remnants of conjugation are even more non-existent (e.g. "I ain't got none", "he don't", "you was" etc.).

So I ended up speaking Brummie English with a Hungarian accent. :) But my spelling is still better than a native's, thanks to my education.

Language / Is rosetta stone any good for learning Polish? [51]

My only problem with this software is that the images have a low resolution. Don’t know if they’ve updated them in recent versions, though.

UK, Ireland / What do you hate about England and English people? [142]

1. NHS, and the tinker GPs + their disgusting consulting rooms with no hygiene

2. traffic:
2. a) lack of useful (i.e. international) road-signs: where to turn, which is your own lane etc.;
2. b) presence of stupid and pythonesque road-signs: frogs and who-cares-what on signs; "dual carriageway ahead" sign (i.e. one lane becomes two lanes) but not ever a "single carriageway ahead" sign (i.e. just go and risk that head-on collision) + SLOW, NO ENTRY, GIVE WAY, KEEP CLEAR etc.

2. c) not to put pedestrian crossings where they are needed vs. put them everywhere else where they are a nuisance for the car and bus drivers

3. English cuisine = curry; pie; veg curry; dry meats + gravy poured on top; more pies; burgers; fish & chips; chips & beans; chips & everything + vinegar poured on top; soup = dishwater; tasteless sausage; tea & milk; some Chinese cuisine; some Italian cuisine; some Indian cuisine; etc.

4. writing in ancient Latin style (FULL CAPITAL WITH NO INTERPUNCTION THE LONGER THE SENTENCE THE BETTER)

5. stupid, non-metric measures

6. stupid trainings and policies; moaning for days about petty things; Asian customer service assistants on the phone with their 10 words/sec unintelligible jabber

7. calling me Polish, just because I am White and non-English

8. the English never wash their hands in the toilet

9. plus other stupid things we don't have to mention (two taps for boiling hot + arctic cold water etc.)

Language / Use of A/An/The ...... Articles [186]


Bwaah... Then how the English manage with practically no conjugation/inflection at all? Take the accusative, which is the most necessary grammatical case after nominative: dziewczyna - dziewczynę. They both had to be translated to English as "girl".

You just can't compare languages on a basis like that...

(Btw., it is spelled absence.)

Language / Word order and swearing in Polish [44]


Hmm, I wouldn't dare to say the first and the last one to a female. :o) "Kurwa, co ty robisz?!" may sound like you call her a whore, unless you really press it: Kuuurwa! Co ty robisz?! :D


It's the same in every language, I suppose. Even English, which is really poor when it comes to swearing, could still use "fancy swearings" like: "Glorious piece of a heavenly shit!" But most people have no creativity these days, they are just sad and blatant...

Language / The Polish language - it's bloody hard! [210]

No, it ain't easy. :) Even native speakers are lost at it, IMHO...

Language / The Polish language - it's bloody hard! [210]


All because the English never have introduced diacritical marks to ease the pressure...

Remember the famous GHOTI?
enough
women
nation

-> ghoti = fish

Language / Polite forms in Polish vs English [49]

Actually, it's the other way round.

I don’t know about the Americans, but the English just can’t be as simple and straightforward as probably every other nation in the world. They have a strange mind to over-complicate everything. When it comes to asking someone about something, it’s even worse: for example, you should not ever directly say ‘no’ to anything they ask. Just make up an excuse, say there’s an earthquake or UFOs have landed, but do not ever say ‘no’ to an Englishman.

One typical example:

“You want a cupper, darling?”
“I’m alright, thanks.”

(I.e. translated: Would you like a cup of tea? - No, thanks.)

Language / learning Polish using American phonics [24]

Joan,

I suggest you have a look at the "sticky" topic (at the top of this forum):collection of Polish language learning resources. You can find lots of audio/video courses for beginners in Polish.

For example, Magauchsein's videos are great for a start. They go through the Polish alphabet, pronouncing each letter -- which means each Polish sound. Unlike English, every letter (or a double/triple combination of letters) conforms to one vocal in Polish, so you only have to memorize them once to be able to read/pronounce Polish texts. It is a much better way than trying to transcribe them into "American"...

I don't know if you want to keep this as a secret... If not, you can always ask your daughter-in-law to aid you in the correct pronunciation. :)

Language / learning Polish using American phonics [24]

Hope Joan could manage...


+ Hungarians have no problem with long vs. short vowels.
...but we have problems pronouncing English diphthongs (+ the triphthong in flower, R.P.) and we can't hear the difference between ae vs. e (bad vs. bed).

Language / Interesting inconsistency between Polish and Russian [71]

For me, the worst case is when supposedly "common, European" ( = based on Old Greek/Latin) words have different meanings in different European languages...

A funny false friend: dynia is pumpkin in Polish, but dinnye is melon in Hungarian. Looks like our ancestors were always too drunk and could never taste the plants in their garden. :)

Language / Interesting inconsistency between Polish and Russian [71]



I know that, but it is pronounced as "b-u-z-i". But it's not a PC term, so it does not mean "gay", but more like poofter. :D

Actually, the Polish kiss, buzi (b-u-ź-i) sounds quite similar to the Hungarian kiss, puszi (p-u-s-i), which then takes us to the Hungarian-English false friends as it is pronounced the same as the Engish pussy. :)) Looks like our ancestors were even more messed up round the lips..... :D

Language / Interesting inconsistency between Polish and Russian [71]


Even in England we have a laugh at the natives... To speak "correct" English, you should not ever let your tongue touch your teeth, and should not ever let your lips close. That's why they have no pure vowel or consonants. :o)

They still understand the Hungarian 'kiss', though. :)

News / RHD cars in Poland - my campaign to change the rules in Poland [128]

Now you regret it... Should've got rid of the old alcoholic Churchill back in those days, I say. Rechts fahren über alles. :P

News / Poland's Organized Crime [58]

Sad but you're actually right here. In former(?) communist countries you can't really hear about the mafia for the very reason that the governments work as "legalized mafias"...

Language / Can you recognise the nationality of foreign Polish speakers by their accent? [43]


S*d off. I can even say Grzegorz Brzęczyszczykiewicz, Chrząszczyrzewoszyce powiat £ękołody with no problem at all.
:)

Language / Too many English words in the Polish language! [709]


Not just Polish, Hungarian still have a couple of terms from German, following our close co-existence with the Austrians. :) Most of them would sound archaic in contemporary language, though, as we don't use or understand them now (i.e. "kravatt" for neck-tie, "anzix" for postcard). But when it comes to technical languages of different professions, it is still amazing to hear their German-sounding terms. My uncle used to be a mason, and it was like a riddle to solve when he started to explain how to build or fix something in a house...


Actually, szabla comes from the Hungarian. "Szabni" = to cut, to tailor something. "Szablya" [pronounced in Polish: "sabja"] = szabla.
A similar military term is szereg, from the Hungarian "sereg" (pron. "szereg" in Polish) = army or lots of people/things.
:)

Language / Polish and Hungarian, how similar? [53]


“A mixture of Slavic and Finno-Ugric”, you mean.
No, it’s not.