Posts by AKarp

AKarp

10 Mar 2019

Real Estate / Average czynsz in Poland-> average cost of utilities/admin for an apartment that you own? [10]

Hello,

I am a dual citizen (Australia/Poland) looking to buy an apartment in Poland (Raciborz)

Other than mortgage, I'm obviously going to have to pay czynsz costs/fees, regardless of whether I am living in the house or not.

Question 1: As I don't intend to be there all the time, I was curious as to whether all properties have per-usage charges for electricity/water, or whether I need to carefully avoid flat-rates?

Question 2: Also, what kinds of monthly fees do people believe would be reasonable for a 2 room apartment (between 45m2 and 55m2) in a large blok, in Raciborz? If someone (who feels they live in a similar situation) could provide me with their actual monthly bills, that'd be fantastic. It's going to be just me, and I'm very thrifty with water and power when I want to be (I realise winter may be expensive on power, though!).

Question 3: Of that estimate, how much less do you think it might be when I'm not living there? (Aka. not using any water/electricity).

Question 4: What kind of security do I have against admin costs, and repair fund costs, radically changing? What kind of laws keep those in charge of the buildings, from suddenly doubling the costs without fair reason (like a sudden emergency repair being needed)? Do those in charge of the building have to disclose how they spend the repair funds each year?

Question 5: On a slightly different topic, the cheapest price I can easily see for an apartment in Raciborz that matches that description, is 110k zloty. It's quite modern, right in the rynek, and on a decent floor. This makes me assume that there must be less-well placed, less-modern, higher-up apartments that are cheaper. Yet in the past 2.5 months, I've never seen anything at all online below about 110k (in Raciborz). Would I be correct in assuming that these properties probably exist, but that maybe people aren't playing to have them photographed and listed online? Do reckon once I get there, and start checking physical notice boards and such, I might be able to find something cheaper than 110k? (That's small but 2 roomed, under 6th floor, not stripped (aka has at least a basic kitchen, bathroom, light fittings))?

Obviously my plan to buy an apartment isn't entirely cost-effective, since I will not always be there. But I wish to avoid any major rip-offs, in terms of being cheated for admin/repair costs for things that aren't being done, or being charged for water/gas/electricity usage, when I'm not there.

Kind regards,
Alice

AKarp

10 Mar 2019

Real Estate / Average czynsz in Poland-> average cost of utilities/admin for an apartment that you own? [10]

Hi Jaskier,

Thank you for your responses!

That's very useful information. I didn't realise that there were a number of main... companies? (Are MZB, Spoldzielnia and Wspolnota, companies? Organisations?) that tend to administer the buildings. It's good to know that I can probably research the administrators of whichever places I look at, then. (I thought they'd mainly be privately owned, which would've made it harder to find out if they were OK or not).

It's good to hear you get a summary of how the fees are spent! By the sounds of it, I'd be more interested in buying an apartment in a block managed by MZB. I'm not after anything particularly fancy, and would like to keep my admin costs down. If they're associated with the town authorities, would I be correct in guessing that they tend to run the older, Communist-era bloks? Everyone I spoke to in Poland disliked them, because they remind them of the Communist regime. I kinda like the colours they paint them, though. We don't really have anything like them at home, so that's probably why I'm fond of them.

As for websites, yes, I've been looking on sites like otodom and olx, as well as the websites of a few agencies that are based in Raciborz. Closer to the date (September), I'll contact agents to see if they know of anything.

Thanks :)

AKarp

10 Mar 2019

Real Estate / Average czynsz in Poland-> average cost of utilities/admin for an apartment that you own? [10]

Hello again!

Aha! Cheers Jaskier. I see, that must be like what some of my older relatives have done. (I believe my grandmother was in a situation, where she didn't own the flat, but could live there for the rest of her life).

I'm also glad to hear that there's a "good" reason for disliking those blocks, other than association with the regime that built them. I must admit, as someone who has never lived in an apartment, I do live with a certain fear of structural fires (why are there no smoke alarms in Polish houses?!) and building collapses. I also worry about harmful building materials, so will be very careful when renovating! So maybe I will think twice about some of those older, cheaper buildings.

Wspolnota, which I guess is equivalent to what we call a "body corporate", is a reasonably common thing for units here in Australia. They are made up of the owners of the flats/units, and have rules about what colours you can paint the outside of your building, and how to split costs for driveway repairs. (Usually, you would be responsible for any repairs of your own part of the building - anything that was clearly owned by you - as opposed to a wall between two units). This could be a preferable situation for me, as working closely with my neighbours will be better for if I'm overseas, than working with a big company / administration.

Thanks Terri, I do need to be careful of all the professionals I'm going to end up paying, yes. But I think that it's mostly the same in Australia, so I don't think I should get any particularly rude surprises?

In Australia you:
1) pay the amount that is being asked for the apartment
2) pay a fee to the real estate agent who finds its and organises the paper work between you, the seller and your chosen solicitor
3) pay a fee to your solicitor
4) pay "stamp duty" to the government. This is a large tax. It is about 3 - 4% of the total value of the property. (Cheap $210,000 property? $6500 or so stamp duty. Blergh!)

As for capital gains tax if I sell at a profit within 5 years, I intend to keep it for longer than 5 years, else the cost of buying it will be pointless. If I sell it before then, I'll be happy to make a profit at all, so that's ok :P

Thanks so much for your advice so far :)

Cheers,
Alice

AKarp

14 Mar 2019

Real Estate / Average czynsz in Poland-> average cost of utilities/admin for an apartment that you own? [10]

Cheers for the additional information, people.

It's good to hear that PCC is at least a bit cheaper than our stamp duty, then.

Ah, yes, I figured standing charges would still apply. I'm not going to bother trying to negotiate that.

Aha, I see. I was confused about the MZB bit, somewhat. I had thought it was public housing (aka. not owned, but given out by the government), but some people had commented about buying it. I guess they must've meant in the sense of those who paid for the right to live their apartment for life, like I believe one of my grandparents did. Or something. Anyways, it doesn't matter exactly, as long as I now know that MZB is indeed public housing (not on-the-market housing).

I'm thinking a wspolnota sounds like the best idea still, currently.

Cheers,
Alice