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Posts by reggianito  

Joined: 15 Nov 2016 / Male ♂ 		Last Post: -
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reggianito   
15 Nov 2016
Law / DUI/DWI (Driving under alcohol influence) as a foreign with residence in Poland (and other issues) [27]

Hi all,

Before post, I was reading a lot of previous thread with similar situation. I will briefly comment what happen in my situation and I would like to receive positive or helpful feedback.

Some consideration:
I am not polish.
I have residence because my wife is polish (I am living here for almost 4 year).
I had (it was stolen in this night) the driver licence of my country, I don't have a polish driver licence.

I get caught driving under alcohol (0.78), I never do it so it was the first time (not sure if in Poland there is a different in the law when it is for the first time).

I used the car because I receive an aggression in a club where I had been, the security guy put me outside and I tried to explain him that my jacket and my mobile was inside, I never was aggressive but the security guy doesn't listen me, you know how they usually are, till finally he understand so he enter with me to search my jacket, I got it but when I was outside again I realise that this was not my jacket.. and also inside this jacket were documents. So I back to talk with him, on this moment he get like tired of me, so push me and put pepper gas from 20/30 cm of my face.

I back as I can to my home, stopping a taxi, because I can't see nothing and I felt totally powerless face to the situation, since my jacket and mobile (a expensive one) was inside the place.

I arrive to home, with my eyes a bit better, so I called to a lawyer which I did some paper in the past. He recommend me to go to the hospital to get a certificate of my state, that is when under the influence not only of alcohol but also my emotional state, without think, I took the car and went to the hospital.. after wait for one and half hour by clock, I was not attended so I decide to leave.

I leave the car far away of the hospital, but this was quite strange, somehow I see a police car on the corner, I enter to my car I did 20 meters and the car was behind me doing that I stop. I did it and I follow all the procedure, after 1 more car of police arrive, 1 civil car, 1 civil van, and after 4 hours of papers and me sitting behind one car, and carry to one komisariat to blow again for test. they carry me to home and my car was translated to a parking.

They didn't leave me to do any phone call, and only few of them speak english so I answer all their question and signed the papers. I was without my phone, so if I could make a call somebody could go and pick up my car, per example, and not carry it (I had to pay 550zl for the carry of my car and the stay of one night). In general, I am totally sure that also I didn't receive the right that belong to me.

Soon I have to present on the police station for an testimony.
Now.. I know that I broke the law, but my question are..

- Could the situation that carry to me to drive the car to the hospital, decrease the penalities or make some kind of appeal?
- My car license was stolen in this night too, I realise it when they ask me for it, since I had it in my jacket, how can it affect more in the problem? or not?

- The fine could be up to 500zl? and the prision to be it the first time for sure is not inside the options, right?
- As my driver licence was for another country, how they will ban me?, I can return and get a new one..
- As a foreign there are maybe some workaround that I can do?

I talk to the lawyer again, and he for represent me is asking me a lot of money (2000 zl), plus I have to paid the fine, plus my mobile and jacket stolen, plus what I paid to take out the car of the parking, it is really a big sum. It really will be importat to be represent on that case? I would like but if there is something that I can do execpt just accept eveything, I still doesn't feel well about what happen and as the aggression I suffered unleashed all the facts

Additionally, my wife have to go to the police station to give testimony about the jacket found in my home with documents, when the police come to my home to ask for my identification (I didn't have it with me)..

As it is all new for me, I will appreciate any advice, recommendation or path to follow?

Thanks in advance.
reggianito   
16 Nov 2016
Law / DUI/DWI (Driving under alcohol influence) as a foreign with residence in Poland (and other issues) [27]

@dolnoslask
I will meet finally this lawyer today, not very cheaper but I hope at least that be good, he help me previously with some procedures. The situation is n Krakow. Thanks for the advice and reply.

@nothanks
I have a decent work, and it is my first arrest, actually it was not an arrest I think so.. because I only was carry to the police station to blow the detector, I was always in the public space, they keep in on the car and carry to home after all the formalities. It counts as an arrest?

As I mention in my first post, after security put me out I can speak with them and they let me enter back to get my jacket, I got it, but when I am outside on the light I reilase that it is not mine, so I want to back to give back this one and search my jacket with my mobile and in that moment they push me and apply pepper gas.. so as I can, I can stop, almost, without see nothing a car and can back to my home. I leave the jacket on my home and went to the hospital by car (yes, my stupidity but on the moment I was out of mine and feeling very powerless).

When police stop me, I didn't have with my any ID, only the document that the car is mine, so one patrol go to my home to search my ID, where my wife and son (almost 1 year) were. My wife tell to the police that there is that jacket with documents that she didn't know. I didn't know that was on the pocket, I just on the moment didn't reilase to check it or whatever, you can image, I just wanted to solve the problem and get my jacket and specially phone back, also I didn't realize that I had my driving licence on my jacket.

So, know about this situation is quite strange, because when the patrol back with my data from my home, they ask me about the this jacket with documents, I told him the same that I tell you know, and all the club situation. But, for me the strange is that they call to my wife to give testimony about it, and not to me, because she was which give the jacket with documents to the police, I can image that they contact the person and they give it back to the owner, or at least, I was what I would do if my wife didn't talk about it with the police when they were to search my ID. I didn't if what she did will help me or not. She have to go tomorrow to give testimony.

Like you can see, I am not a street stumbling drunk, I have a good work and a family here, that is because also I was outside of myself with this situation it was the first time that happen to me.

But I understand your point, I will see that my lawyer recommend to testify and what not, but in one way I have to declare why I didn't have my driver licence, and it is together with the club situation.

@Pilsner
It is quite complicate, I am from South America the ticket is expensive, very long distance and also I have my wife, son and work here. I have good communication with my embassy, they didn't have lawyer, is possible that they have a list of lawyers, but I have this one already, The only think is that I don't know if the money that he is asking me to paid for represent me is inside the normal parameters or not. The embassy itself I think that can't do to much on that case.. but not sure.

BTW, I already have address in Poland for my country, so get a driver licence from my country will took more than one month for sure, I have to go, change address in my document, get the licence copy which take some time, it is quite complicate plus the distance and responsibilities here, is not just a 3 or 4 hours flight.

Thanks for the advice and reply.
Today at evening I will get a meeting with my lawyer, tomorrow my wife have to go to give testimony and when she will go they will give to her a new date for me, because they at the moment doesn't have a translator.
reggianito   
17 Nov 2016
Law / DUI/DWI (Driving under alcohol influence) as a foreign with residence in Poland (and other issues) [27]

@up the creek @dolnoslask
Yes, that true after 6 months, but usually is matter in this kind of incident, or similar, because you can drive a car and be stopped and give this licence and all is okay, also rent a car, and so on.. but, yes, and also the license should be an "international" one, not just the normal one.. well, my residence status is for my wife, also I am working for 3 year here, I can prove that I am a normal citizen which had an unexpected situation, for sure it would be a "point" but I don't think so that it would deny a renew of my resident, it would be more a problem, maybe, if I want to apply for a citizen/nationality..

@nothanks
I already hired an attorney (I will comment bellow), I have all legal here I have Karta Pobytu and also PESE, the car also have insurance and all the papers are in order. Thanks for the correction about the BAC I was missing a zero, here in Poland they are more strict because the country have a lot of problem with alcohol, so after 0.05 is a DWI and not a DUI, the DWI is a crime here, and that is the main problem.

Yes. after all the bureaucracy and paper work.. 3 patrol, 1 van, 10 official and 4/5 hours, which I spend more of them sit behind one car, they carry to home, I was only in the Police station to make two test more and I always was in the public space, it was not an arrest, it have other name in polish that I didn't at the moment.

I had a meeting yesterday with my attorney, I will comment what he told me to give an answer to you and also for future people with similar problem:

For the DWI, which I will plea bargain, I will have a fine of around 5000 zl plus a penalty which can be one or ar combination of the following: 1) a fine (another), 2) social work, 3) jail (may be suspended jail), so per example it could be 5000 zl + 3000 zl (other fine) or 5000 zl + 1000 zl + social work, per example.

The penalty is assigned by the prosecutor and discussed by two part for an arrangement, something the prosecutor do it directly by the police, because they are like some kind of table defined of which penalty could be for each case.

I will declare my responsibility on the charge pay the fine and try to get an arrangement on the penalty.. on the arrangement is important demostrate that I am a normal citizen, which have a stable and appropriate work, which have a family and that I am living here for lot of year ago and it is the first time that I have a criminal situation.

About the driver licence, it will be declared like I was driving without one, which have a fine of 50zl.

Plus the fine and the penalty, I will not able to drive a car in Poland for 3 years which could be reduce to one and half year after request, and a device is installed on my car (I have to pay for it of course..), an alcohol control device, I will need to blow and if all is okay the car will start if not, the car don't start.

So, that are the news and how the case will follow on the next months.
About my situation on the place, I will present charges, but this will be a different history.
About the jacket, it is a difference thing in another Komisariat which is all okay, and the owner of the jacket was the guy that wanted to help me and also they apply, without reason, pepper gas.

Thanks for all the advice and answers!
reggianito   
17 Nov 2016
Law / DUI/DWI (Driving under alcohol influence) as a foreign with residence in Poland (and other issues) [27]

The reason the Police took him to his home is that he had NO documents on his person, so they are unable to process him.

One patrol was to my home, to notify my wife and search my documents, finally on the place they change opinion and they just take some data but not my document.

Police find a jacket with another ID inside and the spouse denies any knowledge of the owner of the ID

It was on a different way, my spouse call to the police to give the jacket with the ID, and at the same time the patrol that was to search my ID meet the other police guys, so they are two different causes in two different police station. We both have to go to give testimony for the jacket cause. When the police return the jacket with ID to the guy, he was missing also some keys, so the police give the number of my wife, and the guy call her, then we realize that I had the jacket of this guy which try to help me, and I give him the jacket that I took from inside, he was trying to give it back.. when both of us where attacked by pepper gas. He is a witness of the situation, also he tell to my wife that the garderobe was full, so the jacket that I took was not from the garderobe, also my jacket was not in the garderobe.

why did he not drive to the club and hand in the jacket with the persons ID?

First, because I never reilase that the other jacket had ID inside, I did't checked the pocket, second return to the place where I was assaulted when I tried to get my personal possession and deny? and third I was not just for the alcohol, but also in a powerless state and shocked for the situation, so shocked that I drive my car in this state (anyway, that shocked will not matter for my charges on the DWI).

@up the creek
Yes, I would love that they checked the camera because is true, I have been in the hospital, the place where I leave the car was in front of a big hospital, no club places near, residential zone. Also see my answer to your question above, they respond some of you accusations, doubts or Sherlock deductions.. Beside I could not call to my mates without phone(?).., and about my life and wife you are confuse, but for people like you, because for sure if I was polish you would not have this thinking about me, is how Poland is at the moment. Keep on this way.. "make Poland great again"..
reggianito   
17 Nov 2016
Law / DUI/DWI (Driving under alcohol influence) as a foreign with residence in Poland (and other issues) [27]

@up the creek
I totally agree with your last post, which was totally different of your previous one, respectful and not xenophobic. I think as the same way that you. I was and I am aware of the severity of my act from the moment that it happen, that is because I wrote here, but I commit it without think, I had my mind blocked, it is of course not an excuse and also a reason of why I did it (the history behind).

I didn't meet the lawyer for it, in fact he leave more peaceful after the meeting and the future of the case, I will of course be responsible for my acts. Also, I am aware of the future issues that this problem could carry to me in the future.
reggianito   
17 Nov 2016
Law / DUI/DWI (Driving under alcohol influence) as a foreign with residence in Poland (and other issues) [27]

@up the creek
(I can't edit my previous post).. I didn't meet the lawyer for it, in fact he leave more peaceful after the meeting and the future of the case, I will of course be responsible for my acts. Also, I am aware of the issues that this problem could carry to me in the future if i stay leaving here.., I will write you the following in order that you know that you can not judge a person without know him/her first.. actually I was living with my wife on my country with a nice job on the government, in the judicial system (not a lawyer of course but not in administration, and important assignation anyway..).., we move here because she was missing a lot her family.. my son come later, if it is for me I would back to my country.. but life is life and something decision should have to be taken thinking in other persons too.. (yes, a thinking that I didn't have previously on the emotional and alcohol state that I was..), do not misunderstand, I like here too but for me this country need a little more of salt (making an analogy with food).
reggianito   
20 Jul 2017
Law / DUI/DWI (Driving under alcohol influence) as a foreign with residence in Poland (and other issues) [27]

hey @dakdak,

Let's see how I can tell you eveything in a simple way:

You will get a 5000 zl fine (money which go to the government (sic)) + a penality, the penality is negotiate with the prosecutor, it can be:

1) Jail in suspend:
In suspend it mean that you are not going in the jail but if you are evolved in another 'crime' , the suspention stop automatically and you are going. For how long it depends the prosecutor deal with your layer, for me they were offering 2 years.

2) Social work
Not sure which ones they are, and how much it also depends on the deal with the prosecutor.

3) Another fine (I choose this one)
This fine is money going to some non governmental instituion, at beginig the prosecutor wanted that I paid 6000 zl but my layer (against what he said) can negotiate it to 4000 zl (which again, against him it was a good deal because years behind year this sum is more and more).

Additionally I can't drive in Poland for 4 years (the base start at 2, but also it depends the prosecutor), after 2 year is possible to do a request to the court and they allow you to install a device in the car that only turn on when you blow on it and there is not alcohol.

To recap:
5/6 months till sanitation was applied
5000 fine + 4000 penalty fine

I could pay all the fines in 3 months, I mean, meanwhile you deposit it, there is not problem, but do it by part is not regulated.

Also if you have polish driving license card they will take it.

So, not big deal but yes quite expensive.

My recommendation is that you find a good lawyer, I think that mine could do better deal with the prosecutor, and if it help, I paid him 2000 zl. Anyway, beside the deal with prosecutor there is a lot of paperwork and so on, so you will need one.

If you have another question, feel free to write :)
Good luck!
reggianito   
21 Jul 2017
Law / DUI/DWI (Driving under alcohol influence) as a foreign with residence in Poland (and other issues) [27]

Hello @dakdak,

1) Yes, you will not go jail, also if you choose the jail penalty.. which is in real "suspended jail"

2) I don't know, I was wondering the same, previously before I applied for the renew of the resident I had a similar issue but lower, in bike, and I was a bit worry about the same but they told that not problem about it. In other hand, this is something very common between polish citizens that why fee and penalty are very high.., I think that will not affect, but not sure.

3) As I wrote you, from the case started for me it took like 5/6 month but on my case as it was at end of the year and usually for statistic they want to close as much cases as possible, my lawyer hurry up to close it quickly and they agree.. so, till they stop me and since I got the letter to start to pay it was like 7 months.

As I wrote you before, I think that my lawyer was not very experienced, I think that I could have a better deal.., so I will not totally recommend him, find anyone which also speak English, it will be fine :) the procedure are quite normal for them. Usually it is only paperwork, some meeting at begging in the police and the more important the deal with the prosecutor !

Good luck! :)