Law / Setting up a sole trader business and becoming a resident in Poland - Procedure? [32]

Merged: Register personally as an EU-citizen first or freelance-business first in Poland?

Hi all,

I've read some information on how to register yourself personally (as an EU-citizen) and how to register your (freelance-)business in Poland (as an EU-citizen). Both are more or less clear to me. However, what I don't understand is which of the two should be done first. In order to register personally in Poland, I read that I'll have to provide some certificate or other document showing that I will work as a self-employed person in Poland i.e. showing that my business is registered in Poland. However, to register my business in Poland, I will have to provide my address in Poland, i.e. the address where I personally am registered in Poland... So, it seems like a 'does the chicken or the egg come first'-situation to me. Hopefully you can me tell me how to solve this! Thanks a lot in advance.

Cheers!

Law / Setting up a sole trader business and becoming a resident in Poland - Procedure? [32]

@Harry: thanks for the reply. How then do I show them I will work in Poland as self-employed?

This is what I've found here:
mazowieckie.pl/en/for-foreigners-1/european-union/registration-of-an-eu/388,What-documents-do-I-have-to-submit.html

Registration of an EU citizen
What documents do I have to submit?

- 1 copy of an application for registering the residence,
- a travel document or another document confirming your identity and citizenship.

ADDITIONAL DOCUMENTS:

2. If you are self-employed on the territory of the Republic of Poland:

a written declaration on the entry in the National Court Register or the Central Business Activity Register and Information Record System (CEIDG) or another proof confirming that the European Union citizen is self-employed on the territory of Poland;

Law / Setting up a sole trader business and becoming a resident in Poland - Procedure? [32]

@Harry: I know that, but when I stay for longer than three months in Poland, I will (as an EU-citizen) have to register myself in Poland. Since I want to work as a self-employed person in Poland, it would make sense to register myself as such, but I don't see how it could work if I can't first register my business.

Are you a non-Polish EU-citizen working as a self-employed person in Poland? If so, how did you get around this issue?

Law / Setting up a sole trader business and becoming a resident in Poland - Procedure? [32]

@Harry: When you registered at the foreigners office, you had to declare whether you are employed, self-employed, studying, married to a Polish citizen or have a healthcare insurance and sufficient means, right (as per mazowieckie.pl/en/for-foreigners-1/european-union/registration-of-an-eu/388,What-documents-do-I-have-to-submit.html)?

I've emailed a question on this to the Mazovia Province; hopefully this will provide the answer, in which case I'll post it here, so others who might have this question have the answer too :).

Law / Setting up a sole trader business and becoming a resident in Poland - Procedure? [32]

Always nice to read an advice which ends with "the authorities don't need to know anything" :). If you run your business from Poland, the business income is taxable in Poland (irrespective of whether your company is incorporated under Polish or UK law). So your scheme is illegal. Besides, if you live more than three months in Poland, you have to register in Poland, which puts you 'on the radar' of the Polish authorities. Moreover, tax authorities within the EU easily exchange information. So it is unlikely that you'll get away with this.

Law / Setting up a sole trader business and becoming a resident in Poland - Procedure? [32]

I wouldn't be surprised if you would be in more trouble than just a fine. Since this whole scheme is purposely set up to mislead the tax authorities, it could also lead to criminal charges. Guus Hiddink (the football coach) was (in The Netherlands) convincted to a six-month suspended jail sentence for wrongly claiming to be a tax resident of Belgium in stead of the Netherlands. And Hiddink had actually some ground to claim he lived in Belgium (he had a house in Belgium where he lived now and then etc.), so the punishment could be even higher for those who try James' suggestion and get caught...

I've found this information on a German website (daad.pl/de/19221/index.html). Unfortunately, my German is far from perfect, but I think it means that there are 4 steps you should take, in this order:

1. Register your place of residence at the City Council;
2. Register yourself at the Province Department;
3. Request a PESEL-number at the City Council;
4. Complete your registration at the Province Department.

If this is correct, then I can see how it works. You could register your business in between step 3 and 4, assuming you don't have to provide (and document) your reason of stay at step 2. Then you have the documentation of your self-employment needed to finish your registration at the Province Department at step 4.

Not sure whether this is correct, but if someone knows, I'll happily hear so.

Law / "Sufficient funds" to register in Poland [18]

I'll work in Poland as self-employed, so I can't really provide a given income. I can however provide bank statements. How many savings would be considered "sufficient funds" for a single-person household?

@delphiandomine: isn't that website for non-EU-citizens?

Law / "Sufficient funds" to register in Poland [18]

@Delph: Thanks a lot! Without wanting to question your expertise ;-), but can you provide a source for this?

Law / "Sufficient funds" to register in Poland [18]

From what I have read, it's obligated if you stay in Poland for longer than three months.

Law / "Sufficient funds" to register in Poland [18]

As an EU-citizen the chance of "getting caught" is probably about zero, but I did read there's a fine on not registering within three months. Plus you need it to get a PESEL-number, which you'll need again to e.g. register a business.

Law / "Sufficient funds" to register in Poland [18]

Sigh, really? :( So much out-dated info on the internet... Here I read that a PESEL-number is required to register a business: foreigners in poland/start-business-poland. But now you can essentially register a business in Poland without a PESEL-number, so you essentially need no "official information" showing you live legally in Poland (except an address) at all?

This is what Wikipedia says:

The PESEL number is mandatory for all permanent residents of Poland and for temporary residents living in Poland for over 2 months. After the 1st March 2015, applicants for Polish passport without a PESEL number will need to apply for PESEL prior to passport application. Otherwise, without a PESEL number, passport application and fingerprints cannot be taken.[1][2]

As of March 1, non-EU residents in Poland are no longer entitled to a PESEL number. EU nationals will continue to receive the PESEL number.

Law / Setting up a sole trader business and becoming a resident in Poland - Procedure? [32]

I am aware of that ;-). The general principles for registering should be the same, I assume, whether you do so as a student or self-employed.

Law / Setting up a sole trader business and becoming a resident in Poland - Procedure? [32]

"Perfectly perfectly legal to setup a uk company and have people pay into it from poland"
Yes.

"and pay uk corporation tax"
No. You're taxed in the state where the "effective management" of your company is (whether your company is incorporated in the UK or Poland is irrelevant). Your scheme would only be accepted if you would have someone in the UK who would make all the management/strategic decisions. And even then you bear the risk that the Polish tax authority will argue that you have a "permanent establishment" in Poland where some or all of the taxable profit is attributable to. So you would have to set it up very carefully, with the help of an international tax advisor. People who try a scheme like this generally do it with a real tax paradise like Malta and often get into trouble.

Anyway, little bit offtopic.

Law / British living in Poland - tax treaty with the UK? [30]

Depends on whether it's a private or public pension, which again depends on whether your employer was private or public. If private, then taxed in Poland. If public, then taxed in the UK. See article 17 & 18 of the DTC.

Law / British living in Poland - tax treaty with the UK? [30]

True, I assumed warsawjambo would live permanently in Poland, in which case he would be considered a tax resident of Poland.