Posts by wino

wino

15 Sep 2015

News / Pole-basher Gross up to old tricks [284]

Are these in any way connected to prof. Gross's book, or are you just trying to say that "it wasn't only us, they did it as well"?

well, it is about intelectual honesty and balance. You cannot talk about "atrocities" of one side and ignore the other. Funny how he talked about polish racism in connection to Poland's refusal of accepting immigrants and didnot mention similar stance of USA and absolute refusal on Israel's side.

Funny you should mention digging ditches for a living. Here's a famous photograph of people who had been digging ditches: diggers
I believe that that original caption to the photograph was Gorączka złota w Treblince (Gold rush in Treblinka). This photograph attracted remarkably little controversy in Poland, right up until Gross wrote about it.

your point is?
Correct me if I am wrong but was it in any way proven that these people are grave robbers? Maybe we know for sure about their ethnicity?

Now, assuming that these people are polish grave robbers, what does that tell you?
are you thinking about antisemitism?

wino

15 Sep 2015

News / Pole-basher Gross up to old tricks [284]

of accepting immigrants and didnot mention similar stance of USA and absolute refusal on Israel's side.

Why would he? The book is about neither of those places. Why for that matter didn't he mention Korea or Burundi or Peru?

Umm, I was talking about his latest interview...

Correct me if I am wrong but was it in any way proven that these people are grave robbers?

Yes. Would you like some links?

Yes.

Maybe we know for sure about their ethnicity?

Yes. We do.

Are you similarly disputing the veracity of Prof. Gross's book?[/quote]
Verocity? how can statement about "antisemitic look" be taken seriously.

Could you go into detail about Israel's refusal to accept refugees in 1938? That was the same year that Poland was refusing to accept thousands of refugees who had Polish citizenship but were of a certain faith.

How about we don;t jump from one topic to another just to stick it to someone and have an actual discussion?
And you didn't really answer any of my question.
I will repeat the most important one: is robbing graves a sign of antisemitism to you?

wino

15 Sep 2015

News / Pole-basher Gross up to old tricks [284]

Not necessarily, but people who are so lacking in humanity that they rob graves are likely to be more pre-disposed to all forms of racism than those who don't, aren't they?

if "not necessarily" than it shouldn't be used as one by a scholar. Things like this discredit him in my eyes.
And I am still not sure about it, why are there so many women there?why do they pose for a picture? It doesn't really add up to be a people initiative.

I never disputed decline of morale during and after the war. This is what war does to people.
But robbing graves is not necessarily that, it is mostly a sign of desperation.
During polish uprising local popuation would sometimes do that to polish or russian corpses, nothing racist about it, but hunger, desperation and opportunism.

wino

15 Sep 2015

News / Pole-basher Gross up to old tricks [284]

Why should he have mentioned that then, either? The interview was about Poland. Not anywhere else.

As I mentioned before it is about honesty and credibility.
IHe is an American Jew, who disegards actions of both of his homelands and moralizes about another country. It just doesn't sit right with me, if he is such a humanitarian shouldn't he start with his own backyard?

So why would he mention America in an interview about Poland?

why would he always talk ONLY about Poland?

wino

15 Sep 2015

News / Pole-basher Gross up to old tricks [284]

How do you know he didn't say all those things in the interview? They do edit them so they can squeeze the adverts in...

Though why would he mention a country other than Poland in an interview about Poland. Not every nationality is hung up on comparing themselves with others...

Ehh, you are grasping at straws, the interview was authorized and I read many of his interviews he has a one-track mind.
I have already answered why.

I'm sure he has other topics of conversation when not being interviewed.

I doubt that.

Will you be able to find the links today? I am curious about them, because I did some research just after the book came out and couldn't find any proofs.

wino

15 Sep 2015

News / Pole-basher Gross up to old tricks [284]

No, I think that things do not happen in the vacuum. When talking about pol-jew realtions he believes that it does, so he picks his facts just so they fit his argument. And he can't even do that right- I have read his books I have checked his facts and his sources and I say that he is a houx. People like him stoke hate and prejudices.

You seem to think that he should only talk about Poland in comparison with other places. There's no reason for that at all. None. If he's talking about crimes in one country, why should he feel the need to list crimes in another?

No really, I wouldn't mention it if it was a one time thing.
I am questioning his motives. If he was truly interested in racism and humanitarianism than he should have broader horizonts and first concern himself with his homelands current wrongdoings.

wino

15 Sep 2015

News / Pole-basher Gross up to old tricks [284]

It's the usual right-wing cry-baby reaction. They try and diminish Polish crimes by pointing out that others committed crimes too, so they can reduce/minimise the discussions about Polish crimes.

Don't assume anything about me since you don't know me. As I said before it is about intellectual honesty and perspective.
Gross is a crappy scholar and an hour with internet access will prove you that- take any of his books and check the sources he is citing, it is laughable.

If we don't have honest discussion we will never get anywhere.

You do realise he's a Polish historian who specialises in mid 20th Century Poland. How broad do you want his horizons to be? Should he include

Yet, he talks about current situation...
when he talks about history of two group that lived next to each other he points out crimes of one group.

wino

15 Sep 2015

News / Pole-basher Gross up to old tricks [284]

I would agree, provided the Poles do the same. When will fronda.pl start writing about the wrongdoings committed by Polish people?

I wouldn't expect much from Fronda, there will always be far right and far left. But I agree and I would like nothing more if these topics were taken seriously and without any bias.

In current situation i will not add to the people focusing on polish crimes because there is no balance and yes that makes people defensive and is not a good atmosphere for untangling and hundreds of years of polish - jewish relations.

wino

15 Sep 2015

News / Pole-basher Gross up to old tricks [284]

Gross is attention seeking pseudo scholar, who stirs old prejudices and incites racial hatred. If any of you are truly interested in the topic take any of his book and check his sources.

I would, too. The problem is that the only people that are seemingly able to do it properly are non-Poles, yet any foreigner attempting to tackle the subject is immediately accused of bias if the result is against the Poles in any way.

Like who?
Davies has an enormous following in Poland, you would expect he writes about Poland only in superlatives, but reading his work would prove you otherwise.

I don't agree with many of his thesis but I can respect him because he tries to be impartial and is interested in hstory and not proving his point.

People will shout about Jewish crimes because they feel threatened and unheard. There were real polemics with Gross but they were deemed antisemitc without any explanation.

Has anyone seen interview with Gross in TVP2 few years back? His response to any criticism was I quote "people wh don't agree with my books are antisemitic".

How can anyone take him seriously?

wino

15 Sep 2015

News / Pole-basher Gross up to old tricks [284]

When you consider how well researched the early stuff was, it seems that he was too afraid to write about the modern era.

what are you suggesting?

The man is a professor of history - not exactly the domain of pseudo scholars.

Professor of sociology.

Or because they are heard? People in Poland do tend to believe a certain mythology about Jewish people.

I don't know, these people are rarely quoted in mainstreem media and not as an authority.
I talked about balance before, so imagine a Polish author publishing a selective book about Jewish crimes against Poles, would he get the same attention and standing as Gross? And I am talking about well research and truthful book here, but still one sided.

Do you understand where the histeria is coming from?

Such is the level of debate in Poland. There's no rational centrist position here.

True, and I don't see it changing anytime soon. There is pliticall corectness to overcome and the journalists would have to stop assuming that all their viewers are idiots who don't think, only feel.

It isn't much better in other developed countries, to tell the truth. UK can sometimes surprise me.

Seems like a good marketing act to me.

I don't understand.

wino

15 Sep 2015

News / Pole-basher Gross up to old tricks [284]

I'm suggesting that Davies knew fine well that if he wrote anything bad about Poles in the last century, then he would have real problems here.

Last century?or post war?

Wrong. Don't try and push that tired myth. He's a professor of history, as listed on his faculty page. The fact that his PhD is in sociology doesn't change a thing about what his title is. If you want an honest debate, you need to respect the facts.

I don't know his biography, according to english wiki he is sociology professor, and yes, I know crappy source.
Did he earn his Ph. D in history or is he just teaching history?
Anyway, doesn't change the fact that his books are dishonest and poor scholarly work.

If it was genuinely researched and truthful, I suspect it would. The Americans might have some weird love-affair with Israel, but others don't. I find it interesting that no-one has actually attempted to do such a thing.

I doubt that, nobody really wants to touch it, the author would undoubtly be accused of antisemitism and it can often ruin you, there are safer topics.

In next year there is to be published work about slave trade in Central and Eastern Europe, it suggest that the merchants were mainly Jews. Curious about the accusations?

J.R. Nowak published book that was supposed to be an answer to Gross' work and guess were is he now? and yes that book was biased, but so was Gross and one is a famous scholar while the other is forgotten.

Think about it - you want publicity for your book, right? So why not say something completely ridiculous - which will cause the right wing media to explode. It did, and Gross got 2-3 years of free publicity from it. The resulting hysteria was also widely reported in the United States, so it helped him with book sales there, too. Very clever, I'd say.

This is what I don't understand. He is supposed to be a scholar! and you just said that it is about publicity, if he is about publicity then obviously he will write and say the most outrageous stuff to schock people, but if it is so then why are people trying to deefend his thesis.

And he said that during TV interview, public opinion was already interested, he is just that ridiculous. He lives in USA, where thes few words will shut anyone up.

wino

19 Nov 2015

Law / Any possibility to stay in Poland - refugee status in Germany denied (I am Muslim) [13]

Oh, please he is trolling.

wino

20 Nov 2015

News / Kaczyński slams "political correctness" plague in Poland [85]

. Ask them

Akcja Wisła-Stalinist era, no legitimate Polish goverment, but still apologised for.
My take is it was a success and the only viable solution, but officially Poland has denunciated the event, so what are you harping on?

why Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth broke. Ask them why Chmielnicki started the uprising.- oh please do tell? was it the oppression of minorities?
Józef Piłsudski and Semen Petliura.- it is a shame but Piłsudski wasn't in the office anymore, he couldn't keep his promises.UKR situation wasn't also very clear.

Ukrainian-speaking schools closed, and whether it could have any impact on OUN (Organizacja Ukraińskich Nacjonalistów) forming a few years before Wołyń Massacre.- are you trying t say that closing of a school is a good reason to torture and kill? and what about UKR terrorism prior to closing the UKR schools???

why Czechs, Lithuanians, and even Swedes don't like Poles.- you tell me.
It is childlish though, who likes who, as if it was impartial or measurable, besides only the rich countries are generally seen in good light despite theeir history. Poor ones are looked upon, who "likes" Kazakchstan and who knows anything about it, beside watching the "Borat" movie?

Notably absent were:
- waste sorting
- saving water and energy
- obeying the law
- paying the taxes

I am "green" wherever I go, don't need to limit to Poland.
I will stay In y XIX century mentality because it actually makes sense.

wino

23 Nov 2015

News / Poland's political party to ban pornography? [60]

This isn't the prudish PRL, after all.

PRL was not prudish! There was often much healthier approach to sex, nudity and human relations than now. Nowadays we took over american way of viewing these matters: oversexualizattion of everything(like naked women advertising coffins) and at the same time prudery and distorted view of human body and sex.

As for banning pornograhy, I am against any kind interference with internet freedoms and don't think it is anybody's business what people do. Having said that, it does have some bad influence especially on young people.

I don't care about the play one way or the other. The minister might have overreacted, but I am not going to defend the crap they are trying to disguise as art nowadays.