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Joined: 20 Jun 2014 / Male ♂
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hapstad   
20 Jun 2014
Travel / Trouble leaving Poland and returning to US; I should leave Poland every 90 days - I went to Berlin [10]

The confusion is that you need to leave the Schengen Area (like say UK or Ukraine) and come back in for another 90 days in order to take advantage of this old treaty....not just Poland and not just the EU (Before 2007 or so you could just pop over to Berlin or anywhere out of Poland and get another 90 days but now since Poland is a full EU/Schengen member you would still be in the Schengen area. I discovered this "loophole" by accident myself and was told by the Border Guards and Immigration that while "legal" they prefer you legitimize if you are living in Poland. This treaty was in place before Poland was in the EU/Schengen so I was told it is still valid though a grey area and can close any time.

Otherwise "technically" an American has to have a Karta Pobytu for long term stay (more than 90 days) for study, work, marriage etc. We can't get Schengen visas as I understand it....90 day tourist stamps or Karta Pobytu are the options. By the rules in order to stay and study for a year you should have applied for and received a Karta Pobytu...but it seems people have varying experiences as to what they can get away with.

This agency: interwencjaprawna.pl

is a legal assistance agency and they helped me verify it as well. The contact page on the website has the address and hours. It's a little hard to find if I recall...sort of under a bridge. But they were very helpful and may be able to assist with the rest of your problem.

Another person who is helpful though can be difficult to get in to see is the main secretary at the immigration office on Dluga 5. You have to take a number and may wait several hours...and need someone to translate if you don't speak Polish as she is an older woman who doesn't speak English. And don't be put off by her at times gruff appearance...treat her kindly and she is a wealth of info.

Regarding just leaving with what you have the thing is like many things in Poland...it depends on who you get and when you get them. Most people don't seem to be sure at all of the rules and I have always just tried to be super polite and hope for the best.

I have also attached a pdf copy of the above mentioned treaty in Polish and English.

Sorry for the attachment issue. Here is a link with the Treaty: imgur.com/qNdjw3l

Damned the edit function timeout...

I wanted to clarify the 90 day thing as I understand it as well. My latest info is one year old so verify with interwencjaprawna.pl and the Immigration Secretary on Dluga 5 in Warsaw that it's the same. I am surprised Immigration told you you would be fine with proof of travel to Berlin as that isn't out of the Schengen area. Americans get 90 days out of 180 on just a tourist stamp in the entire Schengen. So if you stayed 90 days in Poland and went to Germany you'd be overstaying in Schengen and could be deported if anyone cared to make a thing out of it. Technically you have overstayed in Schengen for nearly 9 months at this point based on what you have told us. The special treaty based issue is for Americans only and regarding Poland only and it requires you exit the Schengen zone...fly to UK on a cheap flight for example and come back the next day to get another 90 days IN POLAND ONLY....it has to be a direct flight out of Schengen or direct border crossing from Poland (ie Ukraine) as if you encounter Immigration in any Schengen country you are at risk for being deported....so no stops in Germany or France on the way to London etc. Technically you can live in Poland this way indefinitely as a tourist but can't legally work etc.

I also can't see how you will have a legal basis to apply for a Karta Pobytu at this point as you have been illegal for 9 months. In order to apply and be approved you have to be legal and have a valid legal reason (registered student, work permit, married to a local etc). Again the rules seems inconsistent and some people get in trouble for following exactly what they are told and others get away with murder for decades.

Best case is nobody cares and you head out fine...worst is a 10 year exclusion from Schengen which means no Europe for the most part for a long time. It's worth the effort to verify everything and even pay a lawyer if you have to in order to sort things. There have been amnesties before and people seem to have quite varied experiences individually. So don't just tuck your head and run for it....get stuff in writing and talk to all those people I mentioned.
hapstad   
21 Jun 2014
Travel / Trouble leaving Poland and returning to US; I should leave Poland every 90 days - I went to Berlin [10]

I was told you had to leave Schengen...but like you said you get told different things depending on the person and day. I guess since the treaty I linked (which you call a bilateral visa agreement) is from before Schengen there is no mention of it in the wording, as far as Poland is concerned leaving the territory of Poland is good enough...despite the fact you were in Germany illegally. If you had been caught in Germany you'd chance getting booted for overstaying Schengen so I wouldn't use that method in the future myself...regardless of whether Poland is ok with it as the other Schengen nations will enforce it. You never know when there will be a random check on a train or of cars crossing internal Schengen/EU borders...and flying has a higher risk of being checked. If you plan to go out for another 90 days I'd leave Schengen. Maybe that's being paranoid after what you've been told but I'd not want to risk it.

You've been told by the relevant authorities twice now apparently that you are legal as far as Poland is concerned. Make sure your flight out doesn't stop anywhere in Schengen as well just in case...you shouldn't have to deal with Immigration during a stopover but I'd not chance it in any case. LOT goes direct to the USA and a stopover in London with any airline would work as well.

Also...you didn't say if you planned to come back soon...if you will I'd just apply for the Karta Pobytu so you have it. It will be valid for a year if you have a legal basis to get it...and you can use it to travel throughout the Schengen area without the 90 day restriction.
hapstad   
23 Jun 2014
Law / Non-EU country citizen on tourist visa - could anyone help me with Karta Pobytu? [63]

I can't speak as to the Malaysian specific issues or the UK stamp ( I know Americans can stay in the UK 60 days visa free as tourists but that is specific to the UK...otherwise we have to follow the 90 days out of 180 in Schengen) but as long as you apply at least 45 days before your Karta Pobytu expires you should be ok as I understand it regardless of how long they take to process it. When I have done it it always took them longer than the stated time (once it took nearly half a year with some additional documents needed) to issue a decision and they allowed me to stay pending the decision. In the old days I got an actual temporary "Wisa" in my passport but they stopped doing that they said, and after that the submission documents stating my decision was pending sufficed. But I would verify it with the Immigration office and not just trust what you are told here.

Immigration Office:

mazowieckie.pl/en/departments/department-of-foreigne/24,dok.html

Border Guards:

strazgraniczna.pl/wps/portal/tresc?WCM_GLOBAL_CONTEXT=en/serwis-sg/przekaz_wiadomosc/dane_teleadresowe_wybranej_jednostki_organiazacyjenej/
hapstad   
23 Jun 2014
Law / Cyber law advice for Ebay dispute in EU (foreign expat with poor Polish) [6]

I hate to discourage you but the Polish police aren't going to do anything about this...it's hard enough getting them to address local issues that have tangible damage involved. I think getting them to even document it would be a struggle but if you want to try as it can't hurt to have one more official document supporting you, just go to the nearest station (if you don't speak Polish well take someone who does as it is hit and miss on English) and speak to the desk officer. Also any civil suit wouldn't take place in a Polish court just because you reside there.

Personally I would consult an attorney as it's an EU civil issue and can be complicated. As I understand it the police report should be filed in the country the seller is in or selling through, but I am not a lawyer so don't take my word for it.

Contact map for the police...don't know what city you live in: info.policja.pl/inf/jednostki/47301,Jednostki-Policji.html
hapstad   
23 Jun 2014
Law / Non-EU country citizen on tourist visa - could anyone help me with Karta Pobytu? [63]

I was only asking about how long you have been there to see if you are legal in the rest of Schengen. I don't know what the Schengen law is for people from Singapore though. Do you know how long you are allowed to be in Schengen normally? You have to remember Schengen Europe is treated as one country for immigration issues so if you are overstayed in one Schengen nation you are overstayed in all (with some specific special exceptions).

Have you been living in Poland legally for those 2 years...meaning you had a Karta Pobytu or visa then? If you are legit in Poland then you should be legit to visit Spain. And having a positive decision letter along with your most recent Karta Pobytu should be enough...though I would get the decision letter translated into English and/or Spanish because they probably won't be bothered to check out a letter in Polish. Basically you are legal in Poland and therefore Schengen with a positive decision...it could just be a hassle to explain on the chance someone questioned it...and if you were not legit the last 2 years it could make it even more complicated even though in the end you should still be ok as you are NOW legal.
hapstad   
23 Jun 2014
Law / Non-EU country citizen on tourist visa - could anyone help me with Karta Pobytu? [63]

Yeah it sounds like it's the same for you as for Americans....90 days in Schengen out of 180 with just a tourist stamp...so if you had been in Poland on just a stamp for 90 days or more then you would not legally be able to go to Spain and would be overstayed in Schengen. But since you are legal to reside in Poland you are legal to move about in Schengen and that restriction doesn't apply.

I would call the Border Guards and Immigration to make sure but having your passport, old Karta Pobytu and the decision letter saying the new one is approved but just not ready yet should be fine...you are legal it's just a processing thing. Again I'd get it translated to English at least and Spanish if you can easily, in case anyone in Spain asks about it. They may not care but if they do it could save you a hassle if they can read it.
hapstad   
23 Jun 2014
Law / Non-EU country citizen on tourist visa - could anyone help me with Karta Pobytu? [63]

If it were me I'd get it formally translated to avoid any issues and you can easily get than done in a day or two for something like 60zl per page if I recall correctly. If you live in Warsaw I can recommend a place. But it's whatever makes you comfortable and the chance of you needing it translated at all is slim...I just don't trust much of anything and tend to cover all bases when I can. You have a legitimate document...the only problem you could possibly have with it is some Spanish authority not wanting to bother making things easy as it is in Polish...lots of people use any excuse not to work with you on something. Worst case is it could just take longer to get them to recognize and understand it in the rare event someone made an issue out of it.
hapstad   
23 Jun 2014
Law / Non-EU country citizen on tourist visa - could anyone help me with Karta Pobytu? [63]

What city are you in?

I have used this place often and they are quick, but I haven't used any others so can't say how they are compared to the rest. They are near the intersection of Sienna and Zelazna....not far from Rondo ONZ.

Anna PHU
Sienna 87
Warsaw, Poland
+48 22 620 78 14
phuanna.com.pl‎

If that won't work or isn't close just google the city you are in plus "tlumaczenia" and look at Google Maps....they are everywhere in Warsaw at least
hapstad   
23 Jun 2014
Law / Non-EU country citizen on tourist visa - could anyone help me with Karta Pobytu? [63]

No problem. Nothing is ever easy when it comes to governments and immigration stuff...anywhere. Please call the Border Guards at least to make sure everything I said will work. I'd feel terrible if you needed some additional document and had a problem...though I don't think you should. Enjoy Spain.
hapstad   
24 Jun 2014
Law / Non-EU country citizen on tourist visa - could anyone help me with Karta Pobytu? [63]

Sorry I linked those for the phone numbers...calling is the best bet. Actually going there and asking in person is the best bet...but calling would be better than email in my experience. Also make sure you have someone who speaks Polish to call or go with you if your Polish isn't good.