Language / Does this paragraph make sense? I am learning Polish [11]

Here's my proposition:

Nie jestem biegła w języku polskim. Mam niebieskie oczy. Lubię czekoladę - uwielbiam herbatniki!
Lubię słuchać jak pada deszcz; czytać poezję i literaturę.
Chciałabym zawsze pisać i pojechać do Denver w Kolorado.

Side info:
- język polski -> all adjectives (polski in this case) always start with lowercase letter! it's a grammar rule.
- forget for now about piśmiennictwo, it's used in academic/scientific resources only:) literatura is correct and used on a daily basis
- uwielbiam = bardzo lubię:) we use uwielbiam very often!
- instead of "lubię słuchać jak pada deszcz" you could say "lubię wsłuchiwać się w deszcz" - wsłuchiwać się means that you're listetning to sth intently, more or less thoughtfully (it sounds more poetic:))

Hope it helps. Greetings from Poland and good luck learning Polish!

Language / What is the Polish word for "friend"? [13]

Well, I hope it will clarify a little:

Use przyjaciel/przyjaciółka when talking about a close friend you like in general AND you know each other's secrets, have a lot in common, spend (or spent in the past) a lot of time together.

Najlepszy przyjaciel/najlepsza przyjaciółka is of course translated as BFF, so basically a soulmate.

Kolega/koleżanka is always acceptable, has rather neutral towards positive meaning. It can be someone we know since the childhood, from school, from work - definitely it's a person with whom you could hang out from time to time because you have some things in common. It could be also a person you simply see very often. Like the mentioned above: kolega z pracy - colleague [from work] that you like or is just okay.

Znajomy/znajoma is a person we don't know well (yet), we can maybe tell where he/she lives, studies, works, we could know the "outer" personality but we don't know his/her secrets, worries, the inner self. It's rather a person you don't see often and can't say much about. It COULD be also a person you don't like OR don't want to talk about. Saying: znajomy z pracy means that you either don't know the person well or he/she got on your nerves but you don't want to go into details - it always depends on the CONTEXT so you shouldn't be afraid of using that word!

We have a lot of other words like the mentioned kumoter:) It's rather an old word, not used on a daily basis anymore. It was used to describe a person that is your good companion, comrade, ally, also a blood-related person. In some parts of Poland it was also a word for the godfather of your children.

USA, Canada / Why are Polish restaurants not successful in the USA? [698]

50polish - that might be partially correct. Besides a lot of the most-known Polish dishes focus on the amazing taste of different vegetables - and here I see one problem. All of my family members or friends who moved to USA are always complaining that the veggies or fruits there are tastless! My cousin is a vegetarian and especially loves the authentic flavors, so when she visits Poland from time to time she seriously binge on e.g. simple tomatoes or apples - because apparently the American ones "don't even smell like real tomatoes" [or apples], at least those are her words.

But most of you [from what I read in this thread so far] are forgetting about the most important historical influences. First of all: it's a historical fact that great majority of Polish immigrants coming to USA were poor farmers, who most likely themselves didn't know many dishes apart from the simple ones they were able to cook from a few ingredients available around their homes - back then it was all about survival and not everyone cared about taste or variety anymore. The years of partitions, wars, struggle, hunger seriously led to impoverishment of the cuisine, then the decades of communism made it even worse and more bland [my mother remembers times when she couldn't even get enough salt or pepper, things just weren't available in shops e.g. during the Martial Law in the beginning of 1980s]. Only in the recent years the real Polish cuisine is being slowly rediscovered, for example thanks to the old cookbooks [like by Lucyna Ćwierczakiewiczowa from XIX century or Danuta Wyrybkowska from the 30s]. Things are much more complicated than just that and I agree with a few opinions here - even in Poland we still have restaurants that serve garbage [really tastless] food - I believe that it 1) of course always depends on the cook and 2) is just a post-communistic habit of people being used to pierogi, barszcz, żurek and other, which are in fact some of the most simple and cheap dishes from old-Polish cuisine.

USA, Canada / Why are Polish restaurants not successful in the USA? [698]

There were inns of various kinds [karczma, zajazd, oberża, wyszynek, gospoda, etc.] since the early middle ages, so I'd end the "concept of eating out" topic with that.

Again: the reason why Polish food isn't popular now is that it was literally impoverished over the decades of wars&occupation, like communism [when not many products were available in the shops, learn the history].

Real Polish cuisine consist of tons of fresh or cooked local vegetables, fruits [and many kinds of products like dżemy, marmolady, konfitury, powidła], many delicious soups, various kinds of venison [served with for example wine sauces], it was also famous for its large variety of fish dishes [and how many Polish fish dishes can you recall right now?], and has ones of the best desserts in the world, like my personal favorite cheesecake [which has NOTHING to do with the American cheesecake made from the liquid cream], I could go on and on, just look into real cookbooks or old Polish literature.

The reason why Polish dishes in modern restaurants are so bland is purely the ignorance of the cooks - but, thankfully, it's changing slowly.

Life / Are there any bookstores in Wroclaw, Rzeszów or Krakow where I can buy books in English? [5]

First thought: go to any Empik store, they usually have smaller or bigger English sections. Here's list of there stores: empik.com/pomoc/salony [wybierz miasto = choose the city] or list of books you can buy online: empik.com/obcojezyczne

Travel / Wieliczka Salt Mine Receiving Intense Interest This Year: 1 Million Visitors! [6]

Was it perhaps that one? -

youtu.be/DKKjQB5cXC4

Found some clues on the salt mine's website. I've been there years ago and didn't know they made such major changes - therefore thanks for reminding me about that place, definitely going to visit it this year!

Food / Perfect Pierogi? (keen to perfect the recipe) [12]

The proportions Guest wrote are quite good! Try them. Here's a video of how to make it, the order and "technique" might be important too: - as he's saying, warm water is a must!

youtu.be/r0yk5kHAd6A

Language / do these sentences make sense - mieć ciasteczko...Wyglądasz nieszczęśliwy? [2]

Some are really confusing. Also - based on your name - are you a female? It makes difference in Polish.

- Mieć ciasteczko is an infinitive form, literally to have a cookie. If you want to say I have a cookie it will be: mam ciasteczko. If you want to have a cookie or anything else, just ask with the common phrase: mogę się poczęstować? (can I have [this]?).

- If talking to a male: wyglądasz na nieszczęśliwego, if to a female: wyglądasz na nieszczęśliwą.
- Similar to the previous one - to a male: wyglądasz na szczęśliwego, to a female: wyglądasz na szczęśliwą.
+ £adnie wyglądasz.
+ Twoja sukienka jest ładna. Could be shorter, simply: ładna sukienka.
- If you are in the shop and want to buy bread, it's enough to say: poproszę chleb, or: proszę o chleb. If you enter a shop and want to ask if they sell bread: czy mogę tutaj kupić chleb? (can I buy bread here?)

+ Mam starszą siostrę.
- If you want to say that you wish you had a cat and you're female: chciałabym mieć kota, if you're male: chciałbym mieć kota.

- If you're in a restaruant ordering a meal: proszę o wegetariański posiłek. Polish cuisine is very meaty, so (unless you're in a vegetarian restaurant) it's better to ask first: czy macie wegetariańskie posiłki? (do you have vegetarian meals?)

+ Nie jestem biegła w języku polskim. Could be also: nie mówię biegle po polsku (I don't speak Polish fluently), or: dopiero uczę się polskiego (I'm only learning Polish).

- If you're female: jestem głodna, if you're male: jestem głodny.
- If you're female: czuję się szczęśliwa or jestem szczęśliwa. Male: same but using szczęśliwy
- If you're female: jestem podekscytowana. Male: jestem podekscytowany.
+ Chcesz ciasto? Perfectly correct, but usually you'd say for example: chcesz kawałek ciasta? (do you want a piece of cake?) or chcesz trochę ciasta? (do you want some cake?)

- Chcesz czekoladę?
- Mam siostrzenicę.
+ Mam siostrzeńca.
+ Lubię malarstwo.
+ Lubię czytać.
+ Jestem z Anglii.

I hope I didn't miss anything. Ask if something is unclear.

Language / Is there a traditional expression used as a welcome? [18]


I heard something like "Szczęść Boże za szczęśliwy powrót" before.

Genealogy / Poles born under Russian control - are we Russian? [29]

Ah, this question is always so silly.
I always give the example of Tibet - officially it belongs to the territory of China (as Tibet Autonomous Region), but no Tibetan would call him/herself Chinese. Tibetans have their own history, culture, traditions, religion, etc. etc. etc. It was basically the same with Poland under the partitions.

Genealogy / Poles born under Russian control - are we Russian? [29]

Well, you're forgetting that Poland was a real melting pot back then, full of different cultures living next to each other. Your personalancestors could be mixed, it wasn't that uncommon. Your "Russian" ancestor could be indeed Russian or russified. "Poland" before partitions was actually Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth, people were moving/travelling freely, so it's completely normal that you could have Lithuanian ancestry that was living in the Polish territory under partitions. etc. etc.

To simplify - there were Polish people callingand feelingthemselves Polish, there were Lithuanian people following their Lithuanian traditions, there were Ukrainians cherishing their Ukrainian legacy, same with Jews, Belarusians, Armenians, Lemkos, Tatars and tens of other cultures - all were living here under the partitions.

If there's a question particularly about Poles born under Russian control - the natural answer is: they were Polish.

Genealogy / Andruszkiewicz, Judycki surnames [20]


It might be true though! Szlachta was very diverse as it comes to their origins - people tend to foget that Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth was full of different nationalities, all were equally likely to gain the title for their deeds or wartime merits, Polish was "only" the official language. BTW szlachta was quite often poor [szlachta zaściankowa, szlachta czynszowa], and they didn't resemble the western "nobles" so the concept of szlachta shouldn't be compared to it, just reminding the facts.

I found an official list of szlachta that lived in Vilinius region here: genealogia.lt/szlachta_wilenska.pdf [in Polish but it's a list only - there are both Andruszkiewicz and Judycki surnames]

Genealogy / Poles born under Russian control - are we Russian? [29]


Territory that was Polish before the partitions or: territories that were ethnically Polish. Also: just reminding you that there was for example such thing like Kingdom of Poland also known as Congress Poland (or informally Vistula Land) under the partitions - a puppet state of Russia - the russification of it was strenghtened only after the uprisings. "Polish territory under partitions" is a correct term widely used by historians in the meaning of ethnicity.

Genealogy / Poles born under Russian control - are we Russian? [29]


What about the January Uprising?:) Polish territory (ethnically) was never a fully integrated part of Russia. There were completely separated civil laws established for the provinces of the Kingdom of Poland, an example could be that book from 1896: archive.org/details/grazhdanskezako00polagoog

Genealogy / Poles born under Russian control - are we Russian? [29]


Why are you so interested in that so much? And BTW if you'd read more about the partitions, you'd understand that after the uprisings plenty of people had to hide the fact of fighting or even change their identities / escape abroad in order to avoid the repercussions from Russia - the collection of data wasn't as easy as e.g. during the wars of 20th century, especially because all the communication was strictly controlled by Russians. There were better or worse organized groups of volunteers - soldiers - that were not only of Polish ethnicity. If you're interested, here's for example scan of a book which author was tryingto collect surnames (with short bios) of the people that died during the years 1861-1866 only (during the uprising and further repercussions):


pbc.rzeszow.pl/dlibra/docmetadata?id=2217
I can look for other data tomorrow if you're interested.

Poland didn't exist back then in the modern meaning of a "country", but it was a separated part of Russian Empire. Funnily, if you'll ever have the occasion to have a talk with a Russian historian, you'll notice that they sometimes have a tendency of naming that part of their history: an "union" with Poland. Most of Russian documents of that time were using the term Tsarstvo Pol'skoye (Kingdom of Poland) when describing the (ethnically) Polish territory. Russian wiki site is quite interesting.


Ah, repetition, an obvious sign that I should go to sleep already. I'm sorry if there are any grammar mistakes (still improving my English and it's late here).

I found an official list of generals and soldiers of the 1930 uprising: pbc.rzeszow.pl/dlibra/docmetadata?id=2316&language=en


Forgot to add: that book from 1930 has a full list of generals & officials and then a list of those soldiers who were awarded with the Virtuti Military order (not all soldiers).

Language / Letter 'ą' and 'ę' pronounciation before 'z', 's', 'ś', 'ź', 'ż [21]

1. "ą" and "ę" should be always pronounced as they are. Turning it to "on" or "en" occur in some dialects only. As it comes to "rz" after a consonant (like in "przemysł" or "krzesło") - its pronounciation softens. If it's easier to pronounce to you, you could indeed say "pszemysł" or "kszesło".

2. Are they all in mianownik? If yes:
305,589,627 mężczyzn -> trzysta pięć milionów pięćset osiemdziesiąt dziewięć tysięcy sześćset dwudziestu siedmiu mężczyzn.
156-ty człowiek -> sto pięćdziesiąty szósty człowiek
109-ty człowiek -> sto dziewiąty człowiek
2006-ty rok -> dwa tysiące szósty rok
1105-ty rok -> tysiąc sto piąty rok
1000,001-szy rok. -> milion pierwszy rok

3. It's an exception - singular masculine nouns that are non-viable take the mianownik form in dopełniacz: "Mam nowy dom.", "Mam nowy komputer.", "Mam nowy rower." but "Mam nowego mężczyznę.", "Mam nowego kolegę.", "Mam nowego kuzyna.". Is it more clear now?

4. "Tę rzecz mi dano" would be gramatically correct.


Should be: in biernik, sorry. This article (in Polish) is a good explanation of the gender forms in Polish: rjp.pan.pl (three types of masculine forms: męskoosobowy, męskożywotny, męskonieżywotny)

Language / Is there a traditional expression used as a welcome? [18]

As Paulina explained, it's always "Gość w dom, Bóg w dom" (not domu*) and it's only an old-Polish proverb.
There are plenty of traditional forms of greeting/naming guests or the hosts (e.g. the form "mości gospodarzu" as a polite form to refer to the host). In some situations people were even expected to make religious or poetical references, sometimes people were using short rhymed sentences like "Uszanowanie, witam i o zdrowie pytam!" in a semi-humorous way. "Moje uszanowanie" was a courteous way of saying "I'm honored [to meet you]". Religious people were usually greeting each other with "Niech będzie pochwalony" or "Szczęść Boże".

Language / Letter 'ą' and 'ę' pronounciation before 'z', 's', 'ś', 'ź', 'ż [21]


A clearly defined list of all the exceptions should be created (or maybe it exist somewhere already?), it would be so much of a help, just like the list of english irregular verbs for example.

I found texts in English in the meantime: epubs.surrey.ac.uk/2224/1/The_Number_of_Genders_in_Polish.pdf (there's a useful graph showing types of the grammar "genders" in Polish) and en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Polish/More_on_nouns_-_genders

Language / Is there a traditional expression used as a welcome? [18]

No. It actually became very simplified over time. It used to have for example even one more grammatical case (called ablatyw) that merged with dopełniacz (genitive).

Language / "My heart has no nation." - How would I say/spell this in Polish? [13]


Literal translation is the definition of google translate;)
"Moje serce nie ma narodowości, moja dusza nie zna granic" - that sounds very good to me and keeps the original meaning.

Language / Letter 'ą' and 'ę' pronounciation before 'z', 's', 'ś', 'ź', 'ż [21]

Indeed, I'm sorry, it softens after the consonants: p, t, k, ch (correct me if I missed something please).
Theoretically, "rz" after them should be only softened (a sound between "rz" and "sz") but it's hard to pronounce correctly even to most of the Polish people, so saying "sz" in such cases is normal. If you'll ever have the occasion to watch old Polish movies - listen closely, they are sometimes saying the "hard sz"/"soft rz" sound in such cases:) Nowadays I heard such pronounciation among some of e.g. college professors, but in general it's considered as hyper-correctness of phonetics = not well-perceived usually.

Language / Letter 'ą' and 'ę' pronounciation before 'z', 's', 'ś', 'ź', 'ż [21]

Because most of people are sloppy. Some people tend to overexpress the sound of "ę"/"ą" which is an annoying hyper-correctness as well.

It's rare to hear English or any other language pronounced clearly in colloquial speech.

Language / What is the difference between BYĆ W STANIE, UMIEĆ, and MÓC? [18]

How about:

BYĆ W STANIE - to be able to / being capable of - when telling about the general (either physical or mental) capability of doing something

Jestem w stanie Ci pomóc. - I can help you. / I am able to help you = I have the right resources/ideas or I am in the right state of mind to help you.

MÓC - can / could / may - usually when telling about your own will/wish/mood to do something
Mogę Ci pomóc. - I can help you. = I'm willing to help you (I might not know how yet).

Language / Letter 'ą' and 'ę' pronounciation before 'z', 's', 'ś', 'ź', 'ż [21]

Will THIS Polish article help as it comes to numbers? It has a pretty helpful set of the most basic examples and it's hard for me to find anything similar in English at the moment..

As Wlodzimierz mentioned, it always depends on the
1. number (different rules for the 1, 2, 3-4, 5-10, 11-40, 50-90, 100-400 and 500-900 groups of numbers),
2. noun's gender
3. and the grammatical case.
A good table of the numbers 1-10 for all grammatical cases is HERE: grzegorj.w.interia.pl/gram/pl/liczeb02.html - it's in Polish again (sorry), but table itself is kinda easy to depict and it has examples for all the basic genders: męskoosobowy (pan), męskożywotny (pies), męskonieżywotny (stół), żeński (pani), nijaki osobowy/żywotny (dziecko), nijaki nieosobowy/nieżywotny (drzewo).

The simple example Wlodzimierz has started is in Mianownik and would go like:
(I chose pani=lady and pan=gentleman)
Jedna pani (Polka) szła / Jeden pan szedł / Jedno dziecko szło.
Dwie panie (Polki) szły / Dwaj panowie szli OR Dwóch panów szło [yes, that second form is acceptable] / Dwoje dzieci szło.

Trzy panie (Polki) szły / Trzej panowie szli OR Trzech panów szło / Troje dzieci szło.
Cztery panie (Polki) szły / Czterej panowie szli OR Czterech panów szło / Czworo dzieci szło.
Then it goes easier with the numbers 5-10, at least as it comes to the verb:
Pięć (sześć, ..., dziewięć, dziesięć) pań (Polek) szło / Pięciu (sześciu, ..., dziewięciu, dziesięciu) panów szło / Pięcioro (sześcioro, ..., dziewięcioro, dziesięcioro) dzieci szło.

Aaaand another gem for people who know at least a bit of Polish language: "Liczebnik polski" where you can type a number, choose the gender & grammatical case - and you'll get the right form of the cardinal number.


Well, the simple answer is: you should always pronounce "ą" and "ę" correctly:)

Saying "jenzyk", "czensto" or cutting it at the end of a word like in: "sie", "cie", "pójde", "zrobie" (instead of "się", "cię", "pójdę", "zrobię") etc. is ALWAYS a form of dialect or regionalizm and if a TV presenter says so, it just shows his/her region of origin (or, according to some *cough* mean people, their "peasant background" which is a terrible misinformation in most of the cases) and a possibility of him/her being just a social climber who didn't attend the (theoretically necessary) diction training;) That's, sadly, the harsh truth.

You don't want to learn a dialect - you want to learn a "clear" Polish language. As Wlodzimierz wrote, once you'd start making mistakes, they become a habit, very hard to get rid of.

First, learn how to pronounce "ą" and "ę" correctly, just like for example Polish people are learning how to pronounce "ð" sound as in "the":) Don't worry too much because Polish people themselves are often simplyfying/cutting the sound of "ą" and "ę", but again: you don't want to learn a dialect or "street language" as the basics.

As I wrote here before, you have to be careful - "ą" and "ę" are rather soft and not too long (e.g. shouldn't resemble French too much) - overexpressing them resulted in calling "ą-ę" (or "ę-ą") a person who is overly snobby/pretentious;) "On/ona jest taka ą-ę" = He/she is so snobbish, unnatural, I cant stand him/her.

Girl in this short video has rather a correct pronunciation and tells about the basic kinds of numerals in Polish:

Language / What is the difference between BYĆ W STANIE, UMIEĆ, and MÓC? [18]


It would be definitely: Dzisiaj nie jestem w stanie dojechać pociągiem na zajęcia = I'm not (physically) able to take the train to class today.

Potrafię - is used about the things we learned to do, the knowledge/skills.
Potrafię gotować - I can cook = I already learned how to cook.
Potrafię jeździć na koniu - I can ride a horse = I already learned how to ride a horse.
Also: Nie potrafię mówić po polsku - I can't speak Polish = I didn't learn [yet] how to speak Polish

Potrafię could be replaced by umiem in most of the cases.

Just thought of another difference between "być w stanie" and "móc".

Nie jestem w stanie dojechać samochodem. - I can't go by car. = I'm not physically able to do it, e.g. I'm sick, have broken leg or the car is broken (things aren't exactly dependant on my will - physical obstacles).

Nie mogę dojechać samochodem. - I can't go by car. = I possibly have other plans and cannot change them just like that, it would be too difficult for me to go by car.

BONUS:
Nie potrafię dojechać samochodem. - I can't go by car. = I just don't know how to drive a car.

Language / What is the difference between BYĆ W STANIE, UMIEĆ, and MÓC? [18]


Why? It is normal. "Nie znam angielskiego" = I can't even say a word in English, "Nie mówię po angielsku" (or e.g. "Nie mówię dobrze po angielsku") = I maybe know a few phrases, but I can't use English fluently / I don't speak English on a daily basis.


There's also a slight difference, for example: "Nie potrafię jeździć na koniu" = I can't even keep myself on the saddle, I probably never rode a horse before, "Nie potrafię jeździć konno" = I can't ride a horse (professionally by implication).

Polish language is very rich and full on nuances.

Language / What is the difference between BYĆ W STANIE, UMIEĆ, and MÓC? [18]


Yes, that's the point:) She'd rather say "Nie znam angielskiego" = I can't even say/understand a word in English. A person who "mówi po angielsku" would at least try to communicate:)

Both phrases are clear - everyone will understand that a person saying one of them can't speak English. Still, there's a tiiiny difference between the meaning of them, difference that is getting lost in the everyday language (sadly).

As it comes to the phrases meaning to ride a horse - I know the difference that I wrote about before from the people who are riding horse professionally. The best example: they would say "Jeżdżę konno" to tell that they ride a horse professionally (they are jockeys/it's their hobby/they do it often) versus "Idę pojeździć na koniu" to tell they are going out to ride a horse now (just the act of riding a horse). A person learning to ride a horse "uczy się jeździć na koniu" (the beginnings - how to - usually with a qualified teacher that holds the horse on a line - learns just the act of riding a horse) while later "uczy się jeździć konno" (by him/herself - the actual horseback riding in the open space). That's all I know:)

Language / What is the difference between BYĆ W STANIE, UMIEĆ, and MÓC? [18]

Potrafię implies the skills/abilities you learned or trained yourself (I know how to), like:
potrafię play the guitar, potrafię draw and paint, potrafię bake a cake, potrafię do a backflip, etc.
Little kids often yell "Potrafię zrobić to sam/sama!" = I [already] can do it myself!

If you're saying "Potrafię dojechać pociągiem" it sounds like a kid moaning "But I know how to get there by train, I can do it myself";)

In such situations we use "Mogę dojechać pociągiem" = I can go by train (meaning: I have the possibility of going by tran, it will be convenient/suitable for me to go by train today)

Language / What is the difference between BYĆ W STANIE, UMIEĆ, and MÓC? [18]

That's obvious:) On the other hand I probably still have a kind of "foreign accent" as I'm not a native English speaker;)

The point is to learn how the natives understand their language and ideas behind the words. That's why I'm trying to clarify the idea of "potrafię", it just would sound too silly or even unintelligibly if used in a wrong way.

Language / Letter 'ą' and 'ę' pronounciation before 'z', 's', 'ś', 'ź', 'ż [21]


Correct is język as described: IPA: [ˈjɛ̃w̃zɨk], AS: [i ̯ẽũ̯zyk]

I wrote clearly that "jenzyk" in an example of a dialect-based pronunciation, a simplification, therefore not correct if you want to learn a "clear" Polish language.


Someone who is 102th = singular form, "which one?" -> sto drugi
102 boys = plural form, "how many?" -> stu dwóch

Singular forms answering the question "which one?" in mianownik [ordinal numbers] are quite simple:
the very basic rule is to conjugate only the last digit of the number (or two digits if a decimal number is last in the row) that is other than zero.

Here's example of saying which year is it:
Year 2000 -> rok dwutysięczny
Year 2014 -> rok dwa tysiące czternasty
Year 1002 -> rok tysiąc drugi
Year 1256 -> rok tysiąc dwieście pięćdziesiąty szósty
Year 1200 -> rok tysiąc dwusetny