Law / Permanent stay in Poland for a engaged brazilian? [9]

Hi! I would like join in the question since I am also looking for a way to obtain permanent residence in Poland. I am a non-EU citizen but finished both secondary and high school education in the UK.

I have finished 4 academic-years of music degree in Warsaw - 1 year of Staż artystyczny (it's meant to be a post-graduate diploma course but in my case it was the starter) and 3-year-long Bachelor of Music course.

Now I am in the middle of application for karta pobytu for my individual study year in Gdańsk - I was told it is occasionally possible to get temporary residence on the basis of individual study outside institution. I am waiting for the result.

By September 2014, I would have completed 5 years of legal stay (on grounds of karta pobytu and twice on Schengen visas issued by Polish consulate in Berlin). I would really like to apply for a Master's degree for another two years of legalized stay here but unfortunately cannot afford the high tuition fees - 10000 EUR annually + living costs.

What are the ways (as you mentioned) of getting employed to extend my stay? Do you know some firms or organizations providing such services?

I will be most grateful for your help. These last months I've been going through a living hell trying to work things out and any help will be most appreciated!

Many thanks!

Law / Permanent stay in Poland for a engaged brazilian? [9]


Hi! Thank you so much for your reply. A lot of really useful information!

Do you know how to take 'individual study (nauka supposed to studia)' into this calculation formula? As I wrote, now I am in Gdańsk for a sort of 'Gap year' thing just to receive private tutoring on piano playing. Because if it counts as a normal study, I would have completed only 2.5 years by next September, exactly half way.


Does it apply to an undergraduate as well? I am yet to start on a master's degree. In Polish, I would have to say I am a licencjat. My licentiate study was a stationary one.

Sorry to ask too many questions at once. Just one last thing: Do you know what kind of jobs might fall into this category? As you already pointed out, it is very difficult (if not impossible) for an undergraduate with performing music degree to find a job. Would it be sufficient if I somehow got a teaching job at a private music or English school?

Many many thanks and looking forward to hearing from you!

Law / Student. Looking for a way to extend my stay in Poland by study (to eventually apply for permanent residence) [19]


Hi Monitor, thanks again for your help. Wouldn't have learnt half the things if it wasn't for you :)

Please correct me if I didn't understand you correctly:
I don't need permit to work and if I happen to find an employer I should be able to get this 'Working visa' you mentioned.

If I got it right, that's why I thought of working for my friend but as I asked above, wasn't sure whether it would suffice to legalize my stay because given it's a music agency my potential income, according to him, would only come from recordings or some concerts - basically not at all a regular source. Another thing is he lives in the very south and I live in Gdańsk. If I were to apply for a visa or karta pobytu, where should it be done (if it's possible at all)?

p.s. Just came back from Gdańsk University's administration office. There is quite a bit to choose from for Master's degree (even after a BMus degree) and some which I find interesting and possible are Linguistics (English and German), Economics, Rosjoznawstwo and English Philology (possibly the easiest). What in your opinion might be the most promising one to read if I wanted to settle in Poland and get a job?

Many thanks

Law / Student. Looking for a way to extend my stay in Poland by study (to eventually apply for permanent residence) [19]

Hi Dominic! Thanks for your message.

I am aware subjects like IT, business and economics are definitely more the 'dealmaker', and having had a brief introduction to economics I actually considered it too. I am generally interested in all three of them. Yet, I would still like to spend some time on the piano and various music events while studying and just not sure (or confident) whether I could manage indeed an overload of new information, whereas languages (English, German and Russian) are going to be quite much easier since they are all very familiar to me. Also one of my friends, a Polish businessman at my dad's age, carefully suggested from his experience and observation that Russian studies might play well too. I was told at the office today this course touches on business (a major part), media and culture (which is my big personal interest anyway) which could as well prove useful for a pianist.


ug.edu.pl/en/en/non-eu_students--offer

That's what the university website says, although when I asked in person the lady said you might be able to take up other subjects in exceptional cases (I am apparently the first ever to turn up to enquire about non-music Master's degree after a BMus)


I am fairly comfortable with Polish. My first ever thesis happened to be in Polish (never imagined it before!) and went pretty well. I like Polish language very much in general so everyday learning is never a chore.


Couldn't agree more. This is a global problem I am afraid, and I guess you already know it too.

Law / Student. Looking for a way to extend my stay in Poland by study (to eventually apply for permanent residence) [19]

Hi and thank you both for replying!


This is incredible! I don't know for what reason but it slightly amused me when I read it.


I grew up learning Russian (which then helped me with Polish), thanks to my family members from former Soviet countries. True that I'd have some regular brushing up to do but I am still able to read a book or watch a documentary film in Russian. I was told, at Gdańsk University freshmen virtually start from the alphabets in Russian (since hardly any school teaches it up here). Fair point you made though. Perhaps there is not a great need to do a degree in Russian if I already know it well enough to get by. The thing which seemed the most attractive in Russian studies is that business aspect, as the administrant advertised, but this course is very new and god knows what the graduates are up to...


Now that I am out of school, I practically have no professors, and even the ones I had back in England or Warsaw are all music or art people who would most likely discourage what I am about to do altogether. The only time I was involved in choosing subjects to study was just before my A-levels, when we had some career advice evenings. But then that was obviously years back in England and all looks different here and now in Poland.


Would you be so kind to be my 'professor' and advise me on this, please? :) What do you think this subject might be in my case? Could it be international business?


I know wanting to do two major things at once seems impossible and almost greedy, but I cannot and will not drop my only true life-long passion to become a programmer for instance. As Dominic mentioned, the most ideal would be to get a job and obtain a degree in subject that will somehow co-operate with my music. Having said that, I totally can imagine how utterly difficult it could be.

Language / Learning Polish and Russian simultaneously, Is this a good idea? [10]

Hi!

I learnt everyday Russian from my grandma up until I was around 9 or 10 and didn't make much use of it since I moved to the UK at the age of 12 because I had to struggle with German, Spanish and a little French for GCSEs and A-levels. Then I started learning Polish when I turned 18, and I was in for a surprise! My childhood knowledge of Russian helped me loads with learning Polish. As Marek already mentioned, you will find many similarities in terms of grammar (although I personally find Russian grammar a tad more confusing). If you feel confident with Polish grammar (which is often very difficult for native English speakers) Russian counterpart shouldn't cause you too much troubles (except for numbers, telling the time, etc.)

The only thing other than the Cyrillic which could be difficult in learning Russian is the pronunciation irregularity, which is hardly observed in Polish. Words that are same or similar in the two languages quite often have accents on different syllable (take the word Wednesday for example. Emphasis falls on the last syllable 'da' in Russian, supposed to 'ro' in Polish). Without help of good audio materials or most ideally a native speaker (or a dictionary with written out accents) it would be quite challenging to know how the word should actually be read.

Nonetheless, both languages are really beautiful and as I see that you like them, I would say go for it ;)

Law / Student. Looking for a way to extend my stay in Poland by study (to eventually apply for permanent residence) [19]

Hi again Dominic!


In music world, the rule of 'no contact, no job' is absolutely second to none, if it's not the only mechanism there is. The difficulty here is when I encounter a musician, whom I truly respect for his music and talent, he is likely to be modest in both success and personality and simply not the 'big hand' in the market. If he has it all, then this successful artist is usually out of my reach or rather difficult to even just exchange a few words with, unless I'm willing to follow his cross-continental tours. After all, I am guessing this is the common paysage in the art world, where there is a constant struggle between the pure art (whatever that means to the particular artist) and finance & commerce (or simple survival)...


I will take a look at how the curriculum looks like and what it is all about. Perhaps it might be interesting on daily basis, which means I can start learning it already.


Thanks for the advice! :) Just out of curiosity, do you think some certificates might help anyhow? Like TORFL, TestDaF or C1 level in Polish?

Law / Student. Looking for a way to extend my stay in Poland by study (to eventually apply for permanent residence) [19]

Hello Monitor and Dominic! :) Thanks a lot for your super informative messages. I'm so glad I signed up on this forum!


I wonder if these ones who succeeded are in the field of classical or jazz music, which is where I am. These two genres are probably the only ones that are mostly system based these days (even jazz has been an 'institution' for last 30 years or so) - that is to say: music schools, music universities (colleges, conservatoires, academies), master classes (usually attended for contact hunting) and degrees (often getting you nowhere) and unemployment! I have some personal contact with musicians outside classical and jazz, who also have it very hard but usually these guys seem to be combining their music making and everyday life outside music (degrees and jobs not related to music).

What I am about to write now is totally just my observation, that is not related to my initial question of this thread, but since you mentioned you spent some time reading on this subject, I wanted to share my thought with you. The problem I find in music education at schools these days is that due to the current system we get much less time for actual music making and learning one's way in this world. At my Conservatoire and music university for example, they required us to do many time-consuming, seemingly useless and unrelated subjects just in order to meet the standard as a place of higher education. One particular Academy of Music, currently University of Music, had to introduce many humanistic subjects just in order to change its name and to meet the requirement as a 'University'... I heard from some music graduates from Scandinavian countries, as well as certain American schools (Berklee) that they had some lectures on how to make career in music (and things related to it, such as recording companies, agencies, etc.), whereas my mates and I were probably pretending to play ping pong just to get our index signed, or chasing around a priest to beg if we could not go to his lessons of history because we needed to of course play our instruments a bit.

Having written all this, so happy that I made up my mind to not undergo the trap of MMus degree. Since I am out of school, I finally have some time to play on my beloved instrument, earn some money to feed myself and my kitten and importantly read and learn just about anything!


This applied to school trained classical and/or jazz musicians - some are extremely lucky to become professors, their assistants or teacher of instruments. Outside Poland, there is quite a few cases where formality doesn't matter as much and very talented young musicians become professors at the age of 25 or 27 (I know such pianists in London, Cardiff and various towns in Germany). This is the best possible case, since it supplies them with regular income from only a few hours of lessons a week and the possibility to keep practising and concertising. Many of my colleagues from music schools make their living out of teaching instruments, ear training or theory of music. Some with talent get jobs in arranging, accompanying at ballet or theatres, composing but given its scarcity, competition is just sky high. Having said this, I also know people waitressing or flipping burgers as you said, possibly next to other humanistic graduates.


Again, applying this to my field in music - self-promotion usually only works after winning one or twenty major international music competitions. Especially nowadays with all this Youtube, Soundcloud and etc. Some opinionated people can change their mind about the performer and playing just depending on successes in mad competition world, when music is just the same as you hear it. I personally detest this aspect in classical music, where winning usually involves reasonable amount of set-ups and other methods of bribing (yep, still happens!). Of course having done a bit of research on possible competitions for me, luckily there are some left with its winners playing matching up to their titles. I'm planning on participating in a couple of them next summer, if not to get the title - just to play in front of wider audience, meet new people and most importantly to have some fun (both playing and travelling).

Law / Student. Looking for a way to extend my stay in Poland by study (to eventually apply for permanent residence) [19]


Many thanks to you, Dominic! :)


I like this idea very much, and in a way feel glad that my interest is not just limited in music and I would genuinely like to read business or linguistics, purely out of my will. Thanks for the message in any case ;)


This is what my professional musician friends are telling me. Although we say music is the universal language, it's surprising what knowing a few words in Hungarian can get you in this crazy place (I only knew how to say 'Yes', 'No', 'Hungarian' and 'I don't understand' in this language and it seemed to have made it easier to study with a well-known pianist in Budapest!) My best buddy from Poland got a good position in Scandinavian music scene, thanks to his brilliant music skills and fluent English and Norwegian (which he read at Warsaw University). Well, I guess linguistic skills in general are definitely very useful for all of us.

Law / Changes in immigration law for non EU immigrants to Poland [11]

"graduate of Polish university can apply for 1 year permit to stay in Poland for work searching purpose"

Would it work out in my case? - finished one-year artistic training (Staż) and undergraduate (Bachelor's) in Warsaw and got permission to stay in Gdańsk till the end of September this year on the grounds of private learning.

Since the authority was already dubious and sceptical about giving me the residence permit in Gdańsk for 'nauka poza uczelnią', I wonder if I could apply and possibly get one for work searching purpose.

Would be really grateful for all advice!

Law / Changes in immigration law for non EU immigrants to Poland [11]

Thanks a lot Monitor! Good to know there is a possibility.

Do you know of any job offices in the Tricity? I have started looking for a job online, but a visit to such office in person may help out greatly.