History / Polish relation about Russians, Ukrainians? [281]

I comming soon with my answer. I wonder how could you put URL`s on this forum???
For now I just attach my file with anser and URL`s.

History / Polish relation about Russians, Ukrainians? [281]


I appreciate your joke, but it is not very well directed.
The map is based on 500.000 of different genetic markers inside of our genome.(genetic fingerprint is not a `` criminal`` fingerprint)


But not all of them are as similar as Russian and Polish.From my knowledge of Slavic languages I would tell that Polish is closest to Russian after Ukrainian. I created some textfile with similarities between Slavic languages.It seems that if you know three

languages Czech,Polish and Slovenian you could easily understand around 90-95 of basic and non-borrowed Russian words.
The most difficult part for mutual understanding between Poles and Russians is pronounciation.There seem to be some principal differences.And also stresses and tenses.Yet many words are easily intelligeble.It is estimated that around 60% of total vocabulary is similar (not even talk about basic vocabulary).

htt://how-to-learn-any-language.com/e/languages/similarities/russian/i ndex.html (add p in http)
And would you claim that famous expression of Gagarin ``Poekhali !`` is not intelligeble in Polish? The verb ``Ekhat``` is the same in both languages.

Sorry, the words in a text file mixed up a bit.
I tried to create a better version:

English - Polish - Russian
I - Ja - Ja
You - Ty - Ty
You (plural) - Vy - Vy
We - My - My
He - On - On
She - Ona - Ona
They - One - Oni
It - Ono - Ono
Them - Im, Ich - Im, Ich
Me - Mnje - Mnje
Who - Kto - Kto
What - Co - Chto
On - Na - Na
Under - Pod - Pod
Behind - Za - Za
From - Z - Iz, S
For - Dla - Dla
There - Tam - Tam
Here - Tutaj - Tut, Zdes
People - Ljude, narod - Ljudi, narod
God - Bog - Bog
Heart - Sertse - Sertse
Soul - Dusha - Dusha
Spirit - Dukh - Dukh
Head - Glova - Golova
Leg - Noga - Noga
Eye - Oko - Glaz, Oko (archaic)
Ear - Ukho - Ukho
Neck - Shija - Sheja
Nose - Nos - Nos
Cow - Krova - Korova
Horse - Kon` - Kon`
Dog - P`es - P`os
Tree - Drevo - Derevo
Sky - Nebo - Nebo
Heavens - Neb`osa - Nebesa
Paradise - Raj - Raj
Grass - Trava - Trava
Man - Chlovek - Chelovek
Male - Mezhchizna - Muzhchina
Little girl - Devchinka - Devochka
Lad - Khlopets - Khlopets
Eagle - Orzhel - Or`ol
Falkon - Sokol - Sokol
Flame - Plomen` - Plamja
Fire - Pozhar, Og`en` - Pozhar, Ogon`
Riot - Bunt - Bunt
Side - Strona - Storona
River - Reka - Reka
Sun - Slontse - Sontse
Earth - Zemja - Zemlja 50
Road - Droga - Doroga
Stone - Kamen` - Kamen`
Our - Nash - Nash
Beat - Bit` - Bit`
Leaf - Lisch - List
Friendship - Druzhba - Druzhba
Day - Den` - Den`
Night - Nots - Noch
Evening - Vechor - Vecher
Field - Pole - Pole
Snow - Sneg - Sneg
Finger - Palets - Palets
Green - Zel`ony - Zel`onyj
House - Dom - Dom
Castle - Zamek - Zamok
Forest - L`as - Les
Is - Jest - Jest`
Swim - Plyvat` - Plavat`
Fly - L`atach - Letat`
Light - Svjatlo - Svet
Broad - Sheroki - Shyrokij
High - Vysoki - Vysokij
Hail - Grad - Grad
Hair - Vlosy - Volosy
Freedom - Volnosch, Svoboda - Svoboda, Volnost`
Children - Deti - Deti
Language - Jezyk - Jazyk
Cherry - Vishnja - Vishnja
Apple - Jabko - Jabloko
Berry - Jagoda - Jagoda
Sweet - Slodki - Sladkij
Better - Lepshe - Luchshe
Corn - Kukuruza - Kukuruza
Wheat - Pshenitsa - Pshenitsa
Bread - Khleb - Khleb
Mouse - Mysh - Mysh
Sleap - Spat` - Spat`
Bitter - Gorzhki - Gor`kij
Fame - Slava - Slava
Rock - Skala - Skala
Wind - Vjatr - Veter
Yellow - Zhulty - Zholtyj
White - Bjaly - Belyj
Nail - Gvodz - Gvozd`
Ax - Topor - Topor
Sea - More - More
Window - Okno - Okno
Milk - Mleko - Moloko
Pigeon - Golob - Golub`
Fox - Lis - Lis
Volf - Vilk - Volk
Square - Kvadrat - Kvadrat
Honey - Mjod - Mjod
Wasp - Osa - Osa
Bee - Pschola - Pchela
Ring - Persten` - Persten`
Mountain - Gura - Gora
Plate - Plyta - Plita
Clothing - Odezh - Odezhda
Marry - Vesely - Vesjolyj
Image - Obraz - Obraz
Iron - Zheljazo - Zheljezo
Water - Voda - Voda
Droplet - Kroplja - Kaplja
Arrow - Strelka - Strelka, Strela
Clean - Chisty - Chistyj
Sinner - Greshnik - Greshnik
Cabbage - Kapusta - Kapusta
Carrot - Markhev - Morkov
See - Videt` - Videt`
Grandson - Vnuk - Vnuk
Brain - Muzg - Mozg
Meat - Mjeso - Mjaso
Butter - Maslo - Maslo
If - Esli - Esli
Poison - Jad - Jad
Mushrum - Grzhybek - Grib
Ore - Ruda - Ruda
Force - Sila - Sila
War - Vojna - Vojna
Battle - Boj, bitva - Boj, bitva
Eggs - Jajka - Jajtsa
Plum - Slivka - Sliva
Tooth - Zab - Zub
Pine - Sosna - Sosna
Linden - Lipa -Lipa
Sword - Mech - Mech
Wall - Stjana - Stena
Donkey - Osjol - Osjol
Goat - Koza,kozjol - Koza,kozjol
Pain - Bul` - Bol`
Bull - Byk - Byk
Teach - Uchit` - Uchit`
Fly (insect) - Mukha - Mukha
Beer - Pivo - Pivo
Raspberry - Malina - Malina
Where - Gde - Gde
Young - Mlody - Molodoj
Old - Stary - Staryj
Good - Dobro - Dobro
Evil - Zlo - Zlo
Right - Pravo - Pravo
Left - Levo - Levo
Truth - Pravda - Pravda
Plane - Samoljot - Samoljot
Drink - Pit` - Pit`
Write - Pisat` - Pisat`
Eat - Jest` - Jest`
Word - Slovo - Slovo
Justice - Spravedlivost` - Spravedlivost`
Unemployment - Bezrobotje - Bezrabotitsa
Clay - Glina - Glina
Glue - Klej - Klej
Know - Znat` - Znat`
Blood - Krev - Krov`
Poplar - Topolja - Topol`
Viburnum - Kalina - Kalina
Such - Taki - Takoj
Which - Ktury - Kotoryj
In - V - V
Grain - Zjarno - Zerno
Village - Sjalo - Selo
Garden - Ogorod - Ogorod
Fog - Mgla - Mgla
Beast - Zver` - Zver`
Tomato - Pomidor - Pomidor
Couple - Para - Para
Bow - Luk - Luk
Knife - Nuzh - Nozh
Spoon - Lyzhka - Lozhka
Urine - Moch - Mocha
Bitch - Suka - Suka
Shoot - Strel`at` - Strel`at`
Oak - Dab - Dub
Aspen - Osika - Osina
Saddle - S`odlo - Sedlo
Chestnut - Kashtan - Kashtan
Winter - Zima - Zima
Spring - V`osna - Vesna
Summer - L`ato - Leto
Automn - Jesen` - Osen`
Deer- Jelen` - Olen`
Lake - Jezero - Ozero
Juice - Sok - Sok
Ride - Jekhat` - Jekhat`
Crow - Vrona - Vorona
Kernel - Jadro - Jadro
Nut - Nakrentka,Orekh - Orekh
Pear - Grushka - Grusha
Wheel - Kolo - Koleso
Border - Granitsa - Granitsa
Rich - Bogaty - Bogatyj
Poor - Bedny - Bednyj
Hip - Bjodro - Bedro
Street - Ulitsa - Ulitsa
Late - Puzno - Pozno
Far - Daleko - Daleko
Near - Blizko - Blizko
Dust - Pyl - Pyl`
Choice - Vybor - Vybor
Health - Zdrovje - Zdorovje
Nest - Gn`azdo - Gnezdo
Cucumber - Ogurek - Ogurets
Feather - Pjuro - Pero
Thought - Mysl` - Mysl`
Hunger - Glod - Golod
Voice - Glos - Golos
Warmth - Teplo - Teplo
Wife - Zhona - Zhena
Husbend - Menzh - Muzh
Honor - Chesch - Chest`
Badger - Borsuk - Barsuk
And - I - I
Although - Khot`azh - Khot`a
Long - Dulgo, dulgi - Dolgo, dolgij
Few - Malo - Malo
Laugh - Smekh - Smekh
Bones - Kosti - Kosti
Desert - Pustynja - Pustynja
Needle - Igla - Igla
Create - Tvorit` - Tvorit`
Whom - Kogo - Kogo
Tribe - Plemja - Plemja
Widow - Vdova - Vdova
Read - Chytat` - Chitat`
Goods - Tovary - Tovary
Ready - Gotovy - Gotovyj
Fear - Strakh - Strakh
Elk - Los` - Los`
Important - Vazhny - Vazhnyj
Yours - Tvoj - Tvoj
Weak - Slaby -Slabyj
Guilt - Vina - Vina
Sheep - Ovtsa, Baran - Ovtsa, Baran
Quiet - Tihy - Tihij
Watermellon - Arbuz - Arbuz
Flax - Len - L`on
Soup (wash) - Mydlo - Mylo
Valley - Dolina - Dolina
Draw - Rysovach - Risovat`
Shoes - Obuve - Obuv`
Cancer - Rak - Rak
Half - Pol - Pol
Bottom - Dno - Dno
Shadow - Ten` - Ten`
Dark - T`emny - T`omnyj
Short - Krotki - Korotkij
Often - Cha(?)sto - Chasto
Price - Tsena - Tsena
Fish - Ryba - Ryba
Wound - Rana - Rana
Owl - Sova - Sova
My - Moj - Moj
Pig - Svin`a - Svinja
Game - Gra - Igra
Mare - Kobyla - Kobyla
Only - Tyl`ko - Tol`ko
Elbow - Loket` - Lokot`
Knee - Kol`ano - Koleno
Spade - Lopata - Lopata
Prayer - Modlitva - Molitva
Wild - Diki - Dikij
Descendant - Potomek - Potomok
End - Konets - Konets
Secret - Tajny - Tajnyj
Each - Kazhdy - Kazhdyj
Pay - Platit` - Platit`
Reward - Nagroda - Nagrada
Enemy - Vrug - Vrag
Perch - Okon` - Okun`
Hoof - Kopyto - Kopyto
Sew - Shit` - Shit`
Root - Korzhen` - Koren`
Paw - Lapa - Lapa
Without - Bez - Bez
Spark - Iskra - Iskra
Repeat - Povtorzhat` - Povtorjat`
Dough - Tjasto - Testo
Odor - Zapakh - Zapakh
Mole - Kret - Krot
Chin - Podbrudek - Podborodok
Horseshoe - Podkova - Podkova
Joy - Radoshch - Radost`
Cap - Chapka - Shapka
Weather - Pogoda - Pogoda
Senior - Starshy - Starshyj
Bridge - Most - Most
Meaning - Znachen`e - Znachenie
Otherwise - Inachej - Inache
Market - Rynek - Rynok
Threshold - Prog - Porog
Expression - Vyrazhen`e - Vyrazhenie
Eternity - Vechnoshch - Vechnost`
Garlic - Chosnek - Chesnok
Divide - Delit` - Delit`

English - Czech - Russian

Island - Ostrov - Ostrov
Tender - Nezhnij - Nezhnyj
Hand - Ruka - Ruka
Sound - Zvuk - Zvuk
Many - Mnogo - Mnogo
Door - Dvere - Dver`
Hope - Nadeje - Nadezhda
Forehead - Chelo - Chelo (archaic)
Jaw - Chelest - Chel`ust`
Cheese - Syr - Syr
Speech - Rech - Rech
Circle - Kruh - Krug
All - Vshe - Vse
Against - Proti - Protiv
Pipe - Trubka - Trubka, truba
Flour - Muka - Muka
Father - Otets - Ot`ets
Light - Svetlo - Svet
Do - Delat - Delat`

English - Slovenian - Russian
Mister - Gospod - Gospodin
Star - Zvezda - Zvezda
Glass - Steklo - Steklo
Skin - Kozha - Kozha
Speak - Govorimo - Govorit`
Speak - Govorimo - Govorit`
Propose - Predlagati - Predlagat`
Propose - Predlagati - Predlagat`
Search - Iskanje - Iskat`
Street - Ulitsa - Ulitsa

History / Polish relation about Russians, Ukrainians? [281]


Could I know how old are you? Do you remember something that happened 70 years ago? And what exactly Russians did wrong in WWII against of Poles? And why do you believe that Poles and Russians hate each other? Did you encounter any Russian who told you that? I know a lot about Russians and Ukrainians and from what I know they are

absolutely not trubled with any hate towards Poles are any other European nation.Well maybe with exception of Germans in some rare cases. Maybe such reaction was provoked by some racism that this Russian experienced in Poland? And does you relation to Ukrainians differs somehow to relation to Russians?


According to this genetic map of Europe (enlarge image)
news.sciencemag.org/sciencenow/2008/09/02-02.html
Poles and Russians are one of the most closest nations in Europe genetically.
Their icons are even overlapping! (I think they meant ethnical Russians and not
just citizens of Russia).
Polish lang. seems to be suspiciously similar to Russian, basic and older
vacabulary is either identical or very similar. And isn`t Russians made so many
wondering acheivements that somebody not to be proud to be somehow close to
Russians? For example: First man in the space, first artificial satellite, first TOKAMAK,
largest hydrogen bomb and the largest country in the World.
And didn`t Russian saved Poles from total distruction? For example: they saved them
from full scale Tataro-Mongol invasion, they saved them from Swedes (Poland was devastated
by Swedes), they saved them from German Nazies. I guess you know that Nizies planned to
eliminate 80-85 % of Poles and rest of them either sterilize or send in Siberia?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalplan_Ost

And didn`t Russian supplied Poland during times of Comecon with cheap gas, oil and all the
resources and instead bought Polish production goods for a full price? And protected their
border from another Nazi invasion?

As I know Poland received its name from tribe of Western Polianes who lived there.But beside
Western Polians there were also Eastern Polianes who according to wikipedia:
``Polans were dominated by Rus Waregs (Vikings) and played a key role in the formation of Ukrainian genetics.`` en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polans_(eastern)

And Ukrainian lang. seems to be even closer to Polish in some vocabulary aspects than Russian.
And didn`t Poland conquired and ruled substantial part of modern Ukraine for a hundreds of years?
And didn`t they received all the products and spoils from it?

Russians, Ukrainians and Poles all claim that borsch and vodka is their national food and drink and invented
by them and only by them.


I didn`t understand exactly what was primary guilt of Russians in the first two cases.They protected
Polish borders for free of charge and do you think that this is Russians who organized Kachinski
crash???

What is concerning to Katyn massacre, there is still lot of misterious.For example majority of Polish
officers were killed from German weapon (including heavy machine gans) what was quite not typical
for NKVD. Up to date Russia recognized that death of only under 2.000 of Polish officers from NKVD
have some documentary evidence and not over 20.000 as total number of estimated.For example:
``Chief Military Prosecutor Alexander Savenkov announced that the investigation was able to confirm the deaths of 1,803 out of 14,542 Polish citizens who had been sentenced to death while in three Soviet camps``.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre

And who actually were exactly people who gave order to execute Polish officers? Were they ethnical Russians? And what
relation does it have to modern ethical Russians and modern Russia???
There is also serious claims that even those small documentary evidence (with orders of Josef Stalin and Lavrenti Beria)
was complitely faked.Therefore the Katyn case completely failed in Russian constitutional court. (many years ago).
As I know recently Poles applied in European court in hope to receive 100 billions USD from Russia (the case already failed)
because of Katyn.But in the same time I didn`t hear that any Pole would apply in court agains German Nazies who killed in WWII

at least 2 millions of ethnical Poles.There should be millions (!) of families in Poland who lost some relatives in that massacre.
This is where a real field for a courts and reparations! Doesn`t it seem to you?

History / Polish relation about Russians, Ukrainians? [281]


I`m really sad that Poland was not able to go a way that majority of Polish polulation would chose.But mostly this is due to one person who (after everything that USSR experienced in WWII) decided that Polish government should be pro-Soviet and only, - Josef Stalin.

But it would be too much to say that what experienced Poland was a Russian ocupation.There was no USSR citizens in Polish government.Everithing was ruled by ethnical Poles.Many people supported Comunist party of Poland (especially in 1940-s).And take in account that in 1945 the capitalism still didn`t demonstrate high life standards anywhere in the World and many people in both Poland and USSR seriously believed in future of comunism.What is concerning to life standards in particular Comunist country then, as I could understand, it also depended a lot on aptitude of local government and people. I know almost for sure that in some Comunist countries such as Eastern Germany, Czech republic, former Yugoslavia and Hungary life standards were substantially higher than in USSR.And up to now are remembered as quite prestine. I do not know if Poland was one of them. In some of those countries people were allowed to immigrate more or less freely.For example is you watched movie Kolya [imdb.com/title/tt0116790] which depicts pre - 1989 Czech rep. it is mentioned that some relatives of main hero have immigrated in Western countries.Still USSR did not dictate to Poland what to do on each occursion.For example when some influential Poles decided that Władysław Gomułka who served in USSR camps before should become Polish national leader, Nikita Khruschev was angry and thought to enter army, but Poles threated with army too and USSR was enforced to give up.

In comparison to USSR comunism in Poland was a bit different, some private property both in cities and villages was permitted.And so-called comunism existed in Poland 44 years only (1945-1989) or even less and Poland is already 23 years (1989-2012) is completely independent country (how they call it).Did it acheive so high life standards that you would want to return back in Poland?

I`ve read that somewhen in 2012 official unemployment in Poland peaked at 13.3%.I saw some video about sad Polish woman who said she is unemployed and have no money for food and kindergarder for her children.I wonder what was unemployment in Poland before 1989?And how much would you have to pay for kindergarden during comunism? Well, the info that I have about Polish economy is very controversal.Some pro-Western sorces claim it make large successes in economy and even enter World markets.

I wonder with what products - the Cracow`s kielbasa? Unfortunatelly, I still didn`t hear a lot about Polish cars or electronics.
And also we have to remember that pre - 1939 Poland was not a democracy. From history of Poland: ``In 1935 a new Polish Constitution was adopted, but Piłsudski soon died and his protégé successors drifted toward open authoritarianism.Opposition voices were increasingly harassed or jailed, a situation that was not surprising in view of the regime's growing fears over national security.``

``As happened elsewhere in Central Europe, with the exception of Czechoslovakia, the attempt to implant democracy did not succeed.`` ``Polish agriculture suffered from the usual handicaps of Eastern European nations: technological backwardness, low productivity, and lack of capital and access to markets. The former German areas in the west had better rainfall and soil quality and were the most productive, while the former Russian and Austrian areas were below-average.`` ``In the east by contrast, Ukrainian and Belorussian peasants tilled for Polish landowners and no serious moves toward land redistribution were taken.``

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Poland_(1918%E2%80%931939)#From_democracy_to_authoritarian_government
So nobodies knows exactly what way Poland would really go...


I have doubts that ethnical Russians comitted any deliberate mass murder of Poles ever in history, all such claimes should be
analyzed and proved.


I would tell that in difference from Croats - Serbians who have recent hatred escalation, Russian-Polish hatred is not mutual since Russians have no any backward thinking about Poles.Well, they realize, of course, that they likely to experience some kind of racist treatment in Poland or from side of Poles but I would not tell it leads to some real hatred.The best think that Russians,Ukrainians and Belorussians could ever experience from side of Poles is a treatment on idividual basis and without collective prejudice.


I have to explain. The famous expression of Gagarin ``Pojekhali``
means ``let`s go`` in Russian.This verb is formed from word jezdit` which also exist in Polish. For example Jeźdić, wjechać, etc.
The interview with Gagarin contains lots of newer vocabulary and words formed from borrowed roots.I didn`t claim that spoken Russian should be strongly intelligeble for a Poles.To understand if those languages have common roots you have to make some linguistic researches.

History / Polish relation about Russians, Ukrainians? [281]


You see, it was not deliberate.Under deliberate I mean something that was pre-planed as an ethnical cleansing of
Poles by Russian government or any more or less organized Russian force.


Could you give me a reliable link about it? Is it mentioned in wikipedia?


I`m not going to exuse Stalin on this forum, but the topic I started was about relation of Poles towars Russians and Ukrainians.
And what was nationality of Stalin?
Those document that allegedly were signed by Stalin quite possibly are fake.The circumstances of Katyn case is still seriously disputed by some Russian researchers.I could propose you movie ``The Katyn meaness``

youtube.com/watch?v=nK3fmBh4uzQ
The movie is only in Russian.But if you live in Poland I guess it would not be very difficult to find older person who speaks Russian.I would tell immediately that I do not take everithing in this movie as a granted truth, but in second part of movie they provide interesting argument why some Katyn documents or witnesses could be fake.The authors of movie are inclined to believe that majority of Polish officers were killed by German Nizies and they decided to hang this massacre on ``bolsheviks``.

And is it mentioned in wiki about Stalins signature for death of 22.000 Polish officers?Could you give me a link to it and give exact citation?

History / Polish relation about Russians, Ukrainians? [281]


I wouldn`t advise you to take those statements as granted.This site was not created by people who`s first language is Russian or other Slavic languages.While I do not argue with their statement that at least 60% of Russian and Polish vocabulary is similar, I would not tell that Bulgarian or Serbo-Croatian is any closer to Russian than Polish.It would be even unlikely because those countries are more distant from Russia than Poland.I heard most of Slavic languages and saw them in writen form.I would tell that with exception of Ukrainian and Belorussian the only Slavic language which is at least somehow intelligeble to me is Polish.Bulgarian of course have lot of similarities too, but both pronounciation and vocabulary is more difficult intelligeble than Polish.I would not even tell that Belorussian and Ukrainian are more identical to Russian than Polish.They have their own specifics in how words are pronounced and writen.For example many Belorussian words sound quite awkward to me.My native languages are Russian and Ukrainian.If we take the very basic vocabulary (like ones that I provided in a text file), then it is difficult to find more striking similarities as between Russian and Polish.Even regardless different pronounciation and stresses.


Also I do not justify any invasions we have remark objectively that if Stalin would not capture Eastern Polish territories the same thing
would certanly do Hitler with even more disastrous consequences to local population.And what was use of Polish resistance to Soviets if in the same time Polish army didn`t want to make any serious resistance to Hitler? All Polish comandment escaped only under sight of German army. And those territories were populated also by Ukrainians and Belorussians.Why would Russians suppose to allow Hitler to massacre them?

History / Polish relation about Russians, Ukrainians? [281]


I advise you not to spent time on different forums where different loosers stick around and do some research yourself.
For example: use google translator and enter some word in English and check how it sounds in Polish, Russian, Bulgarian, Serbo-Croatian and any other language. Polish is 7 place to Russian? Eyewash.After which exactly languages? Mongol and Tartar for sure?

When I stated similarities between Russian and Polish I didn`t take in account alphabet similarities.What is use of cyrilic alphabet in Macedonian if I can`t understand too many words?And in the same time I could read in Latin alphabet and understand more Polish words?

To sofijufka:
You provided many links to info but doesn`t it seem that they even contradict each other?For example: One article states:


So total nuber of dead victimes suppose to be 1.4 millions.
While wikipedia article states:


I wonder how they so mercifully reduced number of total dead from 1.4 millions to 1 millions and after to 350.000?
Do you seriously take those numers as granted? And maybe with time they will reduce them for another 300.000?
And what was actually a sense to deport peaceful Polish or Jewish population in Siberia for a certain death?Why not to use them usefully for example for military production works during the war?

History / Polish relation about Russians, Ukrainians? [281]


Eyewash.None of Southern Slavic langauges are even closer to Russian than Polish.
Neither in vocabulary or pronounciation.

History / Polish relation about Russians, Ukrainians? [281]


What would happen to Poles if USSR would loose WWII to Hitler and Poland would be under Nazies rule?

History / Polish relation about Russians, Ukrainians? [281]


Well, at least if Ukrainian is easier to understand for you than Russian than it OK for me.
And I even agree that Ukrainian will follow in intellegibility after Czech,Slovak,Polabin,Sorbian,Koshubian and
even Old Prussian.Because how Old Prussians could be worse than Ukrainains, right?


It would be an intersting scenario, of course, but in this case why didn`t they drop a few bombs on Moscow?
Could it be a prove that USSR was better than Nazi Germany even in American eyes?I do not really know...

History / Polish relation about Russians, Ukrainians? [281]

I would be glad to know mind of Poles on the following events:

telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/euro-2012/9327483/Euro-2012-183-arrested-after-Polish-and-Russian-clash-as-march-descends-into-violence-on-Russia-Day.html

rt.com/news/polish-radio-hosts-ukrainian-755

Are such cases become typical in Poland?

Few years ago I saw such Polish movies as ``Battle of Warsaw 1920`` (Bitwa Warszawska 1920)
pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/1920_Bitwa_Warszawska
in which `Russian`` soldiers are pictures as a typical ``Untermensch``
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Untermensch
(an ugly, brutal creatures with somewhat Asian facial features)
As I`ve understood from this move the largest crime of ``bolsheviks`` was their intention to redistribute the land
from the rich to the poor.Probably in Polish eyes this is a totally unforgivable sin.

and ``With fire and sword`` (Ogniem i mieczem)
pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogniem_i_mieczem
Which is about Khmelnitski uprising of 1647. I got such impression that Ukrainians (in movie they are reffered
as ``Ruthenians``) are pictured as a lower race and warmongers. They look so evil in the movie that any Polish
atrocities towards them look almost like a ``leagal justice``. One of the Ukrainian cossacks kidnaped Polish woman
and tells to her that if she will not give to him sexual favour he will find fiance will cut skin from him alive(!) and will

through it to her legs! I wonder, what Polish children may think when they see such a scenes?
And what is actually wrong with oppressed peasants who uprised against their lords because of unbearable life
conditions? Well, but even in Hollywood movies main heroes are always uprised slaves and not a slaveowners.
For example there is some good movies about Spartacus (1960) and (2004).
And what is actually ``heroism`` in chopping down with sword a poorly armed peasants or cossacks to the right
and to the left?And this is what main ``herous`` like to do so much?
Is it continuation to ideas of ``pure blooded arian lords`` of 70 years ago or something?

History / Polish relation about Russians, Ukrainians? [281]


Yes, but what is a sense to make movies after the novel of Sienkiewicz which is itself no more than
long,boring,racist eyewash of little historical accuracy? And I forgot to mention Ukrainian witch-lesbian
who liked to abuse Polish woman...
Sorry, but Polish cinema and entire modern culture makes me sad.No talk of new hero who would lead
humanity or at least Slavic nations to new horizons. No talk of Poles and Ukrainians who would fruitfully
cooperate on some advanced task.For example space colonization in the future.
Only some remebering old grievances and inventing a new ones.

History / Polish relation about Russians, Ukrainians? [281]

But is not she represented in a book as a ``good Catholic`` and Polish-speaking?And is there any mention in the movie that she is not Polish?And didn`t Domogarov/Bogun received only brief characteristics from side of Helena as ``A Terrible guy``?..

Thats naturally, of course, because how Polish woman could fall in love with some Ukrainian/Ruthenian guy?! This animal? Impossible!..
Is there actually any Polish movie in history (at least after 1989) in which any Ukrainian would be represented as a good personality?
Not in movie With fire and sword definitely where Ukrainians are worse than plague and more terrible than fire.

History / Polish relation about Russians, Ukrainians? [281]


Unfortunately not all Ukrainian or Russian guys are as rich and famous as Gomogarov
and Polish women who admired Domogarov will jeopardize them (and Ukrainian woman too)
because this movie rasicm is already will be in their subconsciousness.They may admire some
particular actor but not a hero he plays and the hate will extrapolate in entire ethnicity.

History / Polish relation about Russians, Ukrainians? [281]


He was one of the most famous Lithuanian magnates of the 16th century. Raised a Calvinist he studied at the universities of Königsberg, Leipzig and Wittenberg, and entered in the service of Emperor Charles V from 1552 to 1555.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_Hieronimowicz_Chodkiewicz
A typical Ruthenian guy...


How many people in Poland knows who were Ruriks or pays attention to it?
By the way, Rurik is a Scandinavian name.No any proved reference to Ukrainian blood...


In any case the vast majority of people who participated in Khmelnitski uprising were just peasants who rioted against their slaveowners because of oppression and hardships. And my sympathies are on side of people who fight for their freedom regardless if they are Ukrainians or Poles.Well if Poles want to make some patriotic movie why not to make it about Kostyushko?At least he promised to give freedom to Polish peasants in difference from bloodthirsty polish landlords.

And both novel and book of Senkevich mostly recognize that uprised Ukrainian killed mostly Polish nobles and not a common servants.


On my mind they are pictured as little more than animals.
There is no any Ukrainian personality is recovered, cossacks and Tatars always loose to Polish warriors in tournaments and the only thing cossacks are capable to do well is an excessive drinking.


I didn`t imply you do.


This thread is about relation between Slavic people and you are out of thread.

History / Polish relation about Russians, Ukrainians? [281]


I wonder why Ukrainians perfectly survive without making movies in which they would downgrade other European nationalities
and especially Poles? I cannot remember such movie. I`m not a small boy and could understand which propagandist or political
massage some movie includes.If you or somebody didn`t remark it, I don`t mind.


Are boodthirsty Polish magnates any better than communists?And if yes, for whom exactly?

History / Polish relation about Russians, Ukrainians? [281]


The is also questions: 1)How many atomic bombs would be able to produce U.S. in a given years (1945-1947)? 2) How many bombs would they have to drop on Germany to enforce them surrender? 3) What if Hitler would take strategy of scattering all German popuation and entire German army accross ocupided territories? For example they could enforce local non-german population supply Germans who would live in bunker underground with all provisions necessary and army regiments will enforce non-germans to build bunkers for Germans and be obeident?Then whichever city Americans whould bomb they would hurt non-German population mostly...


Taras Bulba is not a Ukrainian movie.It is in Russian and made in Russia.But I didn`t remark that Poles would be really downgraded there.Somewhat cruel,yes.They torture captured cossack warriers.But many would do the same.But at least Poles are not represented in this movie as drunk cattle, there is no Polish witch-lesbians and no Polish phyco-idiots like ``Bogun``.

Though there is rather unnecessary subplot about mutual sexual relations between Ukrainian cossack and Polish woman.I guess this is what you perceived as a personal abuse.But had been this movie ever advertised in Poland or translated in Polish? I wonder if it`s true...

I did not watch Zalizna sotnia [2004] yet.Probably will do it in couple of days.This movie seems to be a low buget one.Did you see it in Polish?And how Poles have been downgraded there?

History / Polish relation about Russians, Ukrainians? [281]


I think that everithing depended, of course, on how many time Hitler would be able to gain.I do not see a prove that Americans would be able to print A-bombs in 1945-1947 like on a printer.If it would take a couple of month to make a single or two bombs Hitler would have had a chance.Then he would station medium size regiments in every France or Polish city and town and enforce local people work on military factories.And civilian Germans would be transfered in underground cities.For example in Paris would live five millions of French and two millions of Germans (or they could just mix them).If Americans would drop a bomb could you imagine rumors worldwide about evil Americans who murdered few millions of inocent French insted of just making peace treaty with Hitler?And also once Americans would drop a bomb it would be clear that it will take quite short time before they would be able to recreate American acheivment.Because Nazies did not pay due attention to nuclear program because they did not believe A-bomb is likely to be created at all.

And how you explain that if Americans would be able to scarry Hitler with A-bomb why didn`t they scarry Stalin with the same thing and didn`t enforce him to remove Soviet troops from Eastern Europe?

History / Polish relation about Russians, Ukrainians? [281]


Who knows? At least such cases have already been in History. For example - Mongol Empire.


I do not want to watch every movie, could you explain it
yourself? I do not see what would prevent Germans just mix their population with French,Poles and Czechs everywere - in cities on factories etc. and use them just as alive shield? So every German would be surrounded by one French and one Pole or Czech. Would Amreicans bomb all at ones? I guess nobody would care about Russian or Ukrainian ``cattle``, but Catholic nations is a different thing.


And do not forget that woman who send Suvorov to suppress Polish uprising was German princess
Sophie Auguste Friederike von Anhalt-Zerbst-Dornburg (later known as Catherine the II).
And that Prussia and Austria also took part in the fight agains Kostyushko.But I guess you do not have any
claims to them?

History / Polish relation about Russians, Ukrainians? [281]


I have no imagination about their motives and never been close to Ukrainian ultranationalist movement.They represent only small minority of Ukrainian population. Those events of 1941-1943 have been poorly covered in USSR or Ukrainian history books or mass media.And I feel there is lot of contoversy. In Ukraine there still disputes if UPA targeted certain ethnicities or not. In the last 70 years UPA and similar organisations positioned themself as anti-Soviet and anti-Russian.And their relation to Poles ranges from neutral to positive.I do not know what may trigger their actions toward Poles.Do you know that? As I know in 1939 Western Ukraine was included in USSR and all the land was presumably taken from Polish landlords and converted in collective farms.So there should be no great material difference between Poles and Ukrainians.What happened after German invasion?Did Germans intended to return land to Polish landlords or valued Poles of Ukrainians? Or this is they who secretly gave orders to massacre Poles? Two main leaders of UPA - Stepan Bandera and Roman Shukhevych were Nazi colaborators.Shukhevych officially took position of captain in German Army. It is interesting that after all massacres they allegedly commited neither Poles or Jews hunted them and both of them (according to modern official version) died from hands of Soviet KGB. Bandera had been killed in Germany.Well, if Stalin could be credited for Russian, maybe they could be credited for...Germans?


What unarmed people would be able to do agains of tanks and millions of soldiers?Impossible.All higher commandment including Hitler already had bunkers.
And how French and Poles would be able to know that Americans have A-bomb?Neither German press or radio would inform them.
And principally Nazies may not even resttle population.They would just inform Americans that for every one dead Geman they will kill five French or others.

History / Polish relation about Russians, Ukrainians? [281]


Leaders of UPA bilieved in Free Ukraine and served in Nazi army? And were they so stupid not to realize that whoever would win those war (either Hitler or Stalin) there can`t be Free Ukraine? And how Geman Nazies tolerated operation of entire army of Ukrainians in thier rears?Why would not have they disarm them or sent some work to do? And did they massacre only Poles?

And why exacly leaders of UPA cannot envision peaceful co-existance between Poles and Ukrainians in Free Ukraine?And why they would they have to kill Poles if Poles would likely themself move to Poland in search of better life conditions?There many questions to me.I do not teach here Ukrainian propaganda, I do not even have idea what Ukrainan propagada tells.I live outside of Ukraine.You said you saw lots of books in Polish bookstores about Ukrainian massacres.But in the same time there seem to be 2 millions of ethnical Poles who were deliberatly killed by German Nazies.Is there at least the same amount of books about those events in Polish bookstores?


I whish to know who exatly of your family members and how exactly suffered from Ukrainians?
Could you tell entire story?


I would be grad to know what are exacly those stereotypes? (I`m not going to abuse on your mother.)

History / Polish relation about Russians, Ukrainians? [281]


But I`m affraid that even Poles who think like me may not hear alternative point of veiw anywhere.Take in account their propaganda.

What I`m concerned about is only biological racism that some Poles experience to Ukrainians and ethnical Russians.
I guess you would agree that insulting Ukraininas on Polish radio and beating Russians on the streets (including woman and children)
during Soccer championship is not a something ttat should be ignored.And Polish bookstores full of anti-Ukrainian propaganda...
Could you explain why Ukrainians should tolerate all this racism?And shouldn`t Polish society somehow divide on this issue (at least if there is still some normal people) and create some anti-racist society which would be trying to protec interests of Ukrainians and Russians?

History / Polish relation about Russians, Ukrainians? [281]


It is well known that German Nazies didn`t invision any independance for Ukraine.They planed to eliminate 25% of Ukraininas
and use another 35-40 % as a slave workforce. They planed to convert Crymea into part of Germany.Proclaime independance of Ukraine and give reference to Hitler is laughable.Maybe some sick people?I still didn`t receive any credible explanation why would Ukrainians hate Poles in 1941 so much.Do Poles oppress them after Hitler invasion?Or it`s the same for Ukrainians whom to kill? And why all Ukrainians should carry responsibility for a small group of ultranationalists?UPA was not a regular Ukrainian army.Rather some maraudeurs.


Personally I relate to Germans quite well and value many aspects of their culture.But I think there is nothing affraid for you.
Reputation of Germans will not suffer to mach even if somebody will discover more Nazi crimes.Do not you see that all this anti-Ukrainian propaganda is based on stupid and disgusting racism and is not proportional to their crimes?Poles are not concerned about German crimes up to the level it would influence their opinion too much.

History / Polish relation about Russians, Ukrainians? [281]

It seems there is large number of people on this forum who`s relatives exprienced some crimes from side of Ukrainians.
The strange coincidance...
And what was exact


numbers of UPA dead victims?

Honesly I do not know what happened to any uncle of my father or mother.
I would be glad to have so strong family ties and memory!

History / Polish relation about Russians, Ukrainians? [281]


You see, people are so stupidly careless...


And even so suicidal...

History / Polish relation about Russians, Ukrainians? [281]

Well, but didn`t 225.000 of Poles served in German Vermacht? And they also killed Russian and Ukrainian soldiers.(directly or indirectly) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poles_in_the_Wehrmacht

History / Polish relation about Russians, Ukrainians? [281]


Yes,but why even teenage girls should be abused from side of big bandits who restrict their right for comunication
and counterfeit their ``posts``???

History / Polish relation about Russians, Ukrainians? [281]


First of all I`m Ukrainian and was born in Ukraine though my native languages are both Russian and Ukrainian.Secondly I do not uderstand why modern Russia should solely respond for actions of Stalin`s USSR.Any argumented basis?Let`s Poles make claimes to all 15 republics of former USSR and apply in different courts on all of them.It would be fair.Well, except Baltic states.

At its peak Soviet population constituted 275 millions and ethnical Russians were 126 millions of them.Less than 50%. Soviet governmet was more them multiethnical.So what is this bullying toward ethical Russians?


Yes I know it , but the problem is that Ukrainians and Russians often experience racism from side of Poles.That`s a game with only one goal.And I feel that some Poles play dumb too...

History / Are Poles grateful to the Russians for winning the war? [120]


Doesn`t it seems strange to you that on every thread of this forum immideately appears few people who readily describe picturesque atrocitities toward them by either Soviets or Ukrainians (about whoever your start conversation) and NONE ever mentioned attrocities by German Nazies? Sorry but this is just statistically impossible.If nomber if dead by hand of Russians and Ukrainians are is mesured in thousands (that even Polish sources clam) it should be 0.0??% of total Polish population.And all of them are on this forum?

To such People as ``legend`` and ``Shasha`` Guys do not you seem that you are wasting time on this forum?Do you seriously take this eywash?