Genealogy / Petrzywalski family [13]

Hi JBelle

This is amazing. Had started a message to you but it disappeared so may have pressed send too soon or deleted it by mistake. Will repeat what I said just in case

Ralph was my father's uncle, my great uncle. He spent every Christmas with us after his wife died so I knew him really well.

Have been researching the family for about 8 years so have put loads of information on my family tree on Genes Reunited. If you contact me there, I can give you access to view.

Are you Edmund's child? Ralph had two children Joyce and Edmund. Last I heard, Edmund was living in Rhodesia but did he move to Australia? Is he still alive? Is Joyce still alive?

There is a book about to be published on Dagmar's murder and we have been seeking people who knew her. I have two surviving Petrzywalski uncles - John and Malcolm. John was too young at the time to remember anything and Malcolm has dementia so can't remember much either.

Jan / Johann / John Sigismund / Zigmunt Petrzywalski was born in Liepnik, aka Lipnik, in the Czech Republic but considered himself Austrian. He moved to Paris where he married Salome who came from Ribeauville in Alsace, France. They moved to London about 1856 and set up a very successful Viennese bakery. They had 4 children, the eldest Eugene, dying shortly after he was born. Ralph and my grandfather George were children of his youngest - Francois Raphael Jules Petrzywalski. Clearly the least successful of the family who ended up living in a ramshackle bungalow in Kent. He died months before Dagmar's murder.

Polish Forum now thinks the family name may be a german version of a Czech name - Petrvalsky and lots of them are living in Lipnik.

Both names Peters and Petrzywalski are on my birth certificate. But I know that both my father and Ralph changed their names legally (by Deed Poll) to Peters just after WW2.

Would love to hear from you by email

Shirley - your third cousin

Genealogy / Petrzywalski family [13]

Hi Jbelle

Just realised that you would be the grandchild of Ralph's son Edmund, named after Ralph's brother Edmund who died at The Somme. Edmund senior has both a gravestone at The Somme and his name carved in the Canadian war memorial. Spectacular monument and graveyard well worth seeing if you ever come to Europe. He emigrated to Canada aged 22 claiming to be a farmer from London. He died at age 26 in 1916.

What was your father's name and do you have any aunts or uncles?

My father was Jules Stanley Petrzywalski, first cousin of Ralph's son Edmund, your grandfather. He was about 15 when your grandfather was born. Jules had a sister Olga and two much younger half brothers John and Malcolm who would be about your grandfather's age. He lived with his grandparents, Ralph and Dagmar from age 5 when his parents split up and divorced. He was therefore very very close to his aunt and uncle. If Edmund knew Dagmar he almost certainly knew my father, John and Malcolm. Not sure if he would have known Olga as she went to live with her mother. He may also remember my father's first wife, Phyllis.

The family were always convinced their ancestors were Polish Jews escaping persecution. My research finds this is likely to have been a family myth based on the name. They may have no connection with Poland that I can find and were Roman Catholics. Both Johan Petrzywalski and his wife Salome are buried in the Roman Catholic part of the cemetery at St Mary's, Kensal Green, London and there are no jewish or secular marriages in the family.

Johan is sometimes listed at Petrzyvalski in French certificates and this would have been the german pronunciation of the letter w. Coming from Alsace, his wife, Salome Ehrhardt would have been both French and German speaking.

Fab to find the connection - I'm really excited. Which part of Australia are you from? Are you related to Jessica Petrzywalski the train guard who was attacked at work twice last year? And do you know Chantelle Skye Petrzywalski who posted a message on Facebook?

This now makes me your 4th cousin

Shirley xx

Genealogy / Petrzywalski family [13]

Hi Chantelle

I can't get over having found some relatives at last.

I live in Birmingham, England close to the Warwickshire Cricket Ground. I spend quite a bit of my time researching the family trying to trace my father's mother who never saw him again after he was five years old. Several of my holidays are spent visiting places connected with the family and I intend to visit Leipnik in the Czech Republic soon to see if Johan's parents are buried there.

If you do go to France, do visit your x4 great grandmother's home town of Ribeauville. It is stunningly beautiful just outside the Black Forest - very mediaeval in architecture. Her parents came from Strasbourg.

I was brought up in Ruislip in Outer London with my younger sister Susan. I have three children - a daughter Krissie Dawn Haigh now aged 32, and identical twin sons Kieran John Mallon and Paul Damian Mallon aged 30. Paul has a step daughter Katie aged 8 and his own daughter, my first granddaughter Leia Sophie Mallon aged 8 months. Krissie got married last year, Paul is engaged and plans to marry May 2014 and Kieran has a steady girlfriend.

I moved to Birmingham to go to University where I met and married my husband. We are now divorced and he has remarried.

The Petrzywalski family were very secretive. My sister and I were not allowed to meet many of the relatives for reasons that I don't know about but have made me compulsively curious. My father went to great lengths to prevent us going to Ralph's funeral and apparently there was hardly anyone there. There were hints about a falling out with Joyce and Edmund but I've no evidence for it.

Ralph lived in Woking in Surrey and when he retired he moved to the seaside in Essex - a little place called Holland on Sea near Clacton. He was a real character.

Has 'Eddie' explained that his mother was colourful as well? Her name was Elena Ousova, and she came from Russia. Ralph met her on a boat and always claimed she was an escaping princess. On their marriage certificate she gives her father as an Engine Driver - not very royal. She was instrumental in the capture of the man who murdered Dagmar. It is a fascinating story. But weirder than that, I was contacted by the descendant (great nephew) of the murderer and have spent quite a bit of time with him. If you Google Harold Haggar, you will find lots of information. Between us we have lots of information about the police investigation and the trial.

Does Edmund remember his uncle George, my grandfather? And Francois / Francis and Mame Ann his grandparents? I'd like to know more about them.

Love and hugs

Shirley

Genealogy / Petrzywalski family [13]

Dear Boletus

Wow!. Thank you so much. Will try to follow up the distribution of Petrvalsky's and the mayor of Lipnik in 1868, possible brother

The use of the double 'i' in the name appears in a birth certificate of one of his children in Paris in 1855 but not the one born in 1856 (said Charles JJT Petrzywalsky) so he may have used it interchangeably himself. Having a 'name' day does also point to Roman Catholicism and he did marry in a Roman Catholic church in Paris.

Johan set up a Viennese bakery in London, just off Piccadilly, in about 1857 when he moved his wife and son from Paris to London. It was very successful and is mentioned as a must visit place in the Gentleman's Guide to Europe at the time. We have receipts from Buckingham Palace and the Rothchild's so it was obviously considered high class. He died on 15th June 1874 and his wife carried on the bakery with her son, Charles JJT, for many years.

His son, Charles JJT, was a bit of a character. He liked to show dogs and won early Crufts' with a Great Dane and a Black Pomeranium. In fact, he founded the Great Dane Society of the UK having changed the breed name from German Boarhound. After he sold the bakery and restaurant, he bought a hotel in Margate which he ran with his wife until they died.

As you say, a visit to Lipnik cemeteries seems the next best move. Is there a local archivist or source of birth certifcates etc that I could contact there?

Thanks again

Shirley Mallon