USA, Canada / American Polonia. Wisconsin - the most Polish state? [112]


WarsaWasRaw-
I find your thinly-veiled racism against Poles and Polish culture ugly, highly offensive, and, frankly, revolting. It has no place in a modern society of tolerance and mutual acceptance of others' differing backgrounds and cultures.

And, be very careful when using the words "superior and inferior" when referring to culture or race. Adolph Hitler used those same words, "Superior Race," in referring to the blond-haired, blue-eyed Aryans that he thought should rule the world to the elimination of all other "races." (i.e., Jews, mentally & physically handicapped people, etc.) When people start thinking of one race or culture as superior to another, disastrous results are sure to follow.

USA, Canada / American Polonia. Wisconsin - the most Polish state? [112]


Yes, I think one should learn the language and learn about the culture. But I'm not sure that one should necessarily immerse oneself in the culture.

For example, what if my husband were transferred to a country like Iran or Iraq, which has a very traditional Islamic culture? My family is Christian. Are you saying that we should all become Muslim so that we can "absorb the culture" and "contribute to ...society"? If we didn't, it is doubtful that the people would accept us as true members of their community. Sure, we could all learn the language and learn as much as possible about the culture. We could try to make friends with the Iranians or Iraqis despite our very different cultures and backgrounds.

However, I think it would be very difficult to truly become a part of the community without becoming Muslim. And that is something that I would not be able to do, since I am a strong, committed Christian.

Also, what is wrong with folks retaining some of their traditions from the "old country" to pass along to their children, and to their children's children, and so on? That is one of the things that makes America so great: she is a melting pot of all different ethnic groups from all over the world! If everyone dropped their celebrations and traditions from the old country, America would become a boring place, indeed.

USA, Canada / American Polonia. Wisconsin - the most Polish state? [112]

It sounds to me like you are questioning the innate intelligence of Polish and Polish-American people. Why does it matter to you where they live? Let them live where they want to live. Besides, do you have any data to support your claim that the majority of Polish-Americans live in "shite" neighborhoods"?

USA, Canada / American Polonia. Wisconsin - the most Polish state? [112]

FUZZYWICKETS
By the way, I'm a "she," not a "he," which you could have easily discovered by rolling over my uername or clicking on it to view my profile. I will accept your apology now. :-)

USA, Canada / PolAms -- do you regard yourselves only as 'white Americans'? [187]


Yea, Patty! (May I call you Patty? Or do you prefer Pat? And you may call me Jackie! :-) )

Very well put!

I agree 100%!!

And, by the way, Patty, I agree with everything else you said in all your other posts on this thread, as well. I didn't list all your quotes here because that would have taken up too much space. Just wanted you to know that I support you and thatYOU ROCK!! :-) :-)

USA, Canada / American Polonia. Wisconsin - the most Polish state? [112]


Yes, you are correct, that is why they are called TRADITIONS. Here is a definition of "tradition" from Webster's New World Dictionary:

Tradition: "story, belief, custom, information, etc. that is handed down from generation to generation, esp. by word of mouth or by practice."

Traditions are not supposed to imitate the CULTURE of today's Poland. Traditions are to keep alive what was done by our ancestors, so that our children can learn how things were done in the past, so that they can feel connected to their grandparents, great-grandparents, great-great grandparents, etc. down through the ages. By learning Polish traditions, our children are learning some of Poland's history. I don't see anything wrong with that. On the contrary, I think it is very beneficial.

Obviously, one is not forced to teach these traditions to one's children. But I could use ChicagoPollock's argument to reason that we should not teach any history at all in schools today. After all, the culture of today is nothing like it was back then, so why should we have students learn about it? It's totally irrelevant, it would be like living in the past.

That argument doesn't hold up, does it? We learn about the past because it teaches us important lessons for the present and for the future. If we didn't learn from the mistakes of the past, we might repeat them. Also, studying the past shows us how our homeland became the great country that it is today. (There are many more reasons for studying history, of course, but space constrains me to be brief.)


I'm not saying that Polish immigrants should live life in America as if they're still living in Poland. Of course they should learn English and absorb American culture and contribute to American society as quickly as possible. But I see nothing wrong with ALSO preserving traditions from Poland (or perhaps some of these are actually Polish-American traditions): for instance, preparing Polish food, Polish dancing in traditional Polish costumes, teaching Polish to the next generations, observing Polish Christmas & Easter traditions, etc.

USA, Canada / PolAms -- do you regard yourselves only as 'white Americans'? [187]

Okay, that is an interesting observation, but what does it have to do with the discussion about Poles and Polish-Americans? I'm not seeing the connection...


I disagree. I think that many, many Polish-Americans (as well as many others of Polish descent around the world) "discovered how Polish they were" on 16 October 1978, when Karol Józef Wojtyła became Pope John Paul II. Having a Polish Pope might have been the primary reason that Polish (or Polack) jokes went out of style in America. It was cool and honorable to be Polish (or Polish-American). We were proud to identify with the first Polish pope. (He was also the first non-Italian pope since Dutch Pope Adrian VI in 1522.)

And, John Paul II did not disappoint us. From Wikipedia: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_John_Paul_II

[He] has been acclaimed as one of the most influential leaders of the twentieth century. It is widely held that he was instrumental in ending Communism in his native Poland and eventually all of Europe, as well as significantly improving the Catholic Church's relations with Judaism, Islam, the Eastern Orthodox Church, and the Anglican Communion. He was one of the most-traveled world leaders in history, visiting 129 countries during his pontificate. He spoke the following languages: Italian, French, German, English, Spanish, Portuguese, Ukrainian, Russian, Croatian, Esperanto, Ancient Greek and Latin as well as his native Polish.

Genealogy / Polish nationality? Which of the following (if any) determine being Polish. [231]


My grandparents were from the Austrian-occupied part of Poland. They came to the USA in the early 1900's. Are you saying that all the citizens of that partition of Poland became Austrians in nationality during the occupation? Because that is just ridiculous - a person cannot go from having Polish blood in his veins one day to Austrian blood in his veins the next day! And then, during the war, when the Germans occupied Poland, the people's blood became German? That is a bunch of hogwash!!

The people of "the country formerly known as Poland" were Polish before the Partitions, during the Partitions, and after the Partitions. The name of the country didn't matter. The people still retained their Polish ethnicity!


Speaking for myself, I do not claim to be POLISH. I am POLISH-AMERICAN. Or, as someone mentioned earlier, I am an American of Polish descent. I do not speak Polish. Well, I know a few words here and there, but that's all. My 2nd generation parents spoke Polish, but they never taught me. Now I would like to learn the language, but they are both dead, and so are all four of my grandparents. I have an aunt who is fairly fluent in Polish, but she lives 1 1/2 hours away. No colleges around here offer Polish classes, and I've heard it is a difficult language to learn on one's own. So, I am rather stuck. Is it my fault that I never learned how to speak Polish? Am I somehow "less Polish", oh excuse me, "less Polish-American", because I do not know Polish??

Genealogy / Polish nationality? Which of the following (if any) determine being Polish. [231]


Why can't I just be proud of my Polish heritage? What is wrong with that???? And don't go talking to me about "REAL" Poles. Who are you to judge who are the real Poles and who aren't? You are just jealous because you do not live in the USA, the greatest country in the world, the land of the free and the home of the brave!!!

You see, I am proud of being an American first, and then I am proud of my Polish heritage. And no matter what you say, I will always feel that way.

Yes, I would love to visit Poland sometime soon, but it is not possible for me to live there. It is not just about what I want and how I feel. I have a husband and children here in America. My husband is a tenured professor and the assistant chairman of the Mathematics Department at a university here. He cannot just pick up and leave to move to a foreign country. Nor would he want to. He does not have any Polish blood, so I don't think he would be thrilled about moving to Poland. My kids would probably not be too happy about it, either. They have their happy life here, with their school, friends, sports, etc.


You said the PolAms should leave Poland alone. What are we doing to it? How are we offending it? What have PolAms ever done to you to make you so hateful towards us? And, by the way, doesn't the fact that all four of my grandparents emigrated from "the country formerly known as Poland" give me a connection to Poland?

Genealogy / Polish nationality? Which of the following (if any) determine being Polish. [231]


I beg your pardon, I am not retarded. I graduated as the salutatorian of my high school class. In case you don't know what that means, I had the second highest Grade Point Average in my graduating class of 550 students. I have a Bachelor of Science degree from the University of Illinois and a Master of Science degree from Northern Illinois University. I also graduated with honors from both of those prestigious universities.

I don't like to brag, but you force me to do so with your ridiculous claim that I am retarded.

And now I am also an "indoctrinated and brain washed American." Geesh! I cannot be proud of my Polish heritage, and now I cannot even be proud to be an American!! I am a woman without a country!

<pretending to sniffle>


As for "the land of the free and the home of the brave," that is not "propaganda BS". I was only quoting part of the American national anthem, "The Star-Spangled Banner":

O! say can you see by the dawn's early light,
What so proudly we hailed at the twilight's last gleaming,
Whose broad stripes and bright stars through the perilous fight,
O'er the ramparts we watched, were so gallantly streaming.
And the rockets' red glare, the bombs bursting in air,
Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there;
O! say does that star-spangled banner yet wave,
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave?


No, I don't think ALL Poles are jealous of Americans. Only grubas.


What? You mean it isn't???!!!! Just kidding!! LOL :-)

Genealogy / Polish nationality? Which of the following (if any) determine being Polish. [231]


FYI, it is an eagle, not a falcon, on the Polish flag.


However, there is a fraternal organization called the Polish Falcons of America:

polishfalcons.org

Is this the organization that your grandfather was a member of?

Genealogy / Is tallness common among Polish people? [201]


Sorry, I know this is an old thread, but the mods didn't close it yet, and I just had to comment on this statement.

It is false: All Poles do NOT drink. I am a Pole (well, if you want to get picky, I am technically a Polish-American), and I do not drink liquor. I drink other beverages, of course, but not alcohol. It's not that I have any moral objections to it, I just don't like the taste of it.

Genealogy / Polish nationality? Which of the following (if any) determine being Polish. [231]


Grubas, why don't you do your homework before you answer questions on the forum?

From Wikipedia: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Poland

In practice, however, this restriction is often ignored and the two flags - with and without coat of arms - are treated as interchangeable.[3] The variant with the coat of arms is particularly often used by the Polonia, or Polish diaspora outside Poland, especially in the United States.[10]

Genealogy / Polish nationality? Which of the following (if any) determine being Polish. [231]


You are very welcome! :-)


Bravo! Well said! I agree with you 100%!!


No, Krystyna did not forget her native tongue. She said she still speaks Polish well, but she can't write it aniymore.

Love / Are Polish men dominating, controlling and emotional? [36]

It sounds like you have found a wonderful man. You are indeed a very blessed woman! I hope the two of you will spend many happy years together!! :-)

Genealogy / Polish nationality? Which of the following (if any) determine being Polish. [231]

smigly wilno
Very well said! (or quoted) I agree with you 100%!

Do not listen to those naysayers who chastise you for your pride. You have national pride, which is a very different kind of pride than that which "goeth before a fall." That kind of pride is defined as "a high or inordinate opinion of one's own dignity, importance, merit, or superiority." (from Dictionary.com)

From your post #182, I read that you are proud of your Polish heritage, that your father survived Siberia and that he fought in the Polish army (not sure if that is the correct translation), that the country of Poland is still breathing, of the Polish fight for freedom from Communist control, and that the economy of Poland remains resilient and vibrant. You also say that you "remain PROUD of what challenges each and everyone of our parents and grandparents faced and overcame."

I do not read anywhere where you give a high opinion of your own dignity, importance, merit, or superiority. You are simply "proud to be Polska," one Polish person among many. Bravo! That, IMO, is the perfect kind of pride to have! :-)