jazzbox123
25 Jul 2010
Travel / Poland-My 9-day experience [239]
I was born in Poland but have grown up in Australia. We left Poland when I was 5, lived in Italy for 3 years and then migrated to Australia. My extended family has lived here since just after the war.
I am saddened by the continuing ignorance from people everywhere in regards to Poland. I am really starting to find this offensive. They have an ‘image’ in their minds and they don’t want to shake it. People still hold onto silly ‘cold-war’ propaganda. This, unfortunately is fuelled by the most ignorant self-validating attitude of “They are bad/poor/miserable THEREFORE I must be special/good/happy”. Sadly human nature is such that if we are lacking a sense of validity we easily get sucked into these simplistic ‘my team is better than your team’ means of attaining this psychological problem. These ideas are hard to shake as we depend on these kinds of thoughts for well being. Worse, we seem to distort our own sense of self and heighten it, and also simultaneously diminish the worth of the ‘other team’ so as to make them look far worse then they may be.
If there is a “post communist” mentality in Poland I propose that there exists a “post-cold war” mentality in English speaking countries which is equally as harmful to all concerned. Naturally, this is only one layer of contributing why there is disharmony in interaction between former Soviet nations and the “West”, albeit an important one. (I put “West” in parentheses as I think this is a loaded term).
I don’t want to engage with the sillier side of AussieSheila’s post, but I want to attack the underlying presumptuous attitude in her, and others that I have encountered. She is clearly a teenage girl (or has the maturity of one).
The following incident, and another which I will not talk about as it is similar, sparked a process which led me to thoroughly consider my Polishness, my Ozziness and just what the hell is going on in the minds of people that they react so badly to Poles, who I consider cultured, civilised, well educated, and generally having a wit that could show a thing or two to the Irish (famous for their wit, apparently).
I was at MY local bar, one that I had been visiting for 10 years+ and a French girl, who was on “Find-an-Ozzie-Romance”. She lovingly and sexily looked into my eyes and asked me if I was Ozzie to which I replied “Yes”.
She then asked me if I was “Ozzie born and bred?” to which I replied that I was born in Poland.
At this point she made a look like I just took a s%&t in her mouth and said “Oh, so you are from Eastern Europe?”
I replied “No, I am from Melbourne, but I was born in Poland. Besides, Poland is not in Eastern Europe, it is in central Europe.”
She then says, get this “Oh, so you are from DEVELOPING Europe?” And I am thinking, what the f%#k is that supposed to mean?
Then I realised: there were certain stereotypes, unfair ones, which I seem to be held against the Poles by a significant numberer of seemingly civilised people, ie. the French.
These seem to include:
Glum/Depressed
Backwards
Not sociable or friendly
Dirty and Poor
Boring
Lacking in Culture
Part of the “East”
Polish women want to marry foreign men to get money/citizenship etc.
I will not try to address these as I think they have been reasonably well addressed on other posts the forum. I will however, make some general statements that form a loose comparison of what I know about Poland and Australia that will, hopefully, to the body of people who hold the views I have encountered, bring attention to the fact they are being insufferably ignorant.
I will also try to show that Australia and Poland have rather strong historical ties, rather unexpectedly. This is directly aimed at AussieSheila, Irish, English, Scottish people and their mild ‘Ango-Celtic’ pretense. Because there are so many Poles in these countries, and a large proportion of people from them are a bit slow at recognizing that human is as human does, they seem to propagate the nonsense that not only are Poles true to the stereotype and that Poland is a ‘hole’, but that a Pole can’t ever conceivably be an ‘Ozzie’ (the bane of my existence! Lol).
But first, a very curt but accurate social history lesson and commentary as it relates to identity in Australia. This will illustrate how farcical the notion of Australian “identity” really is. The point of this is to share my frustration with you and give you a bit of background as to why I have decided to write this mini essay in response the embarrassing “Ozzie” Troll encountered.
Australia is a stolen country. It is dominated by white, Anglo-Saxon and Celtic peoples. Namely, the English, Scottish and Irish. If don’t have a name that sounds like it is from one of these countries you are identified as not being ‘Australian’. The current prime minister was born in Wales, I noticed that she winced a little bit when quizzed about where she was from. There is this stupid thing here that if you are born here and you have the right name then you are “Ozzie” and if you are not and don’t have that name … well you really are not “Ozzie”. How bloody ridiculous. Now you tell me who is more “Ozzie”, the prime minister or some dead-beat bogan who was born here, of which there are pleeeenty. People who have an Ango-Celtic name think that if the can use a few banal and trite Ozzie phrases said in “‘Strain” (A bastardization of the word “Australian”, as in “Australian language”) that makes them unquestionably Australian. That they don’t know how many generations that they have been “Ozzie” for, where their family actually came from, and that Australia only became a Nation in 1901 does not seem to matter.
While there is plenty of ‘backwards’ and plainly racist thinking, it is kind of non-inflammatory and accepted because many, especially people from Italy, Greece are easily identifiable and to some degree I believe retain their own brand of Australian culture and identity that is sometimes at odds with being “Australian”. And these people don't give a s#^@t. The reality of the problem is can be seen when it rears its ugly head though, and needs to be dealt with eventually. Such as during the very embarrasing Cronulla racist riots. In my own way I hope I am doing that now, with however few people.
Australians (whoever that is!?!) are not racists, and what I refer to is only a mild undercurrent in terms of how they think. But there is something there, like an annoying humming. And like an annoying humming if it never stops then it can drive some people crazy.
Now, for some general points in comparison I want to make:
-Poland has far more impressive historical architecture than anything found in Australia, hands down. Australia has very little that is truly impressive.
-Australia has absolutely incredible nature. It is not as picturesque as that found in Europe, but it is simply stunning – sublime would be the word best to describe it. People usually refer to it as “rugged”, and that suits it just fine. It is diverse and exists on a massive scale.
-Australia has very serious mental health issues. Historically it has had extremely large numbers of heroin addicts and overdoses.
-Australia has very, very little culture that is its own – in fact I don’t think such a thing even exists. But what it does have is revered and usually involves WW1 and WW2, the Eureka stockade (which is really the history of workers generally, rather than Australia in particular), some beautiful poetry and other Art. Knowledge of this is not common, however.
-The state which the indigenous people of Australia live is as bad or worse than any 3rd world country. No matter what is said about Poland and its ‘shoddyness’, if you saw how these people live it would break your heart if you had any humanity in you at all. Shameful beyond the worst thing you can find anywhere in Poland.
-Australia is a melting pot of culture and people: 1/3 are English, 1/3 are Irish, 1/3 come from everywhere else in the world. I have pointed out the problem this creates in terms of identity. Poland is relatively homogenous.
Now a little about how Polish and Australian history is linked:
1. The Rats of Tobruk during WW2 were Australian and Polish forces fought side by side and got along famously. One soldier learned an Australian traditional song, without knowing a word of English and would entertain every batch of new Australians he met with it. Famous, funny story. Many of the Rats later settled in Australia for this reason.
2. Pawel Edmund Strzelecki was a very important Polish geologist/explorer and humanitarian. He explored huge tracts of Australia and also discovered and climbed its highest mountain and named it after a American Revolution hero Kosciuszko. A large national park is also named after him. This guy is big deal in terms of what Australia is.
3. There was a Pole on the First Fleet, that is, the first boat that came to Australia. Why does he never get mentioned or listed with the others who were on it?
4. Poles settled in areas around Adelaide very early in the show, just like other settlers.
AussieShiela, you, sadly represent the backwardness and ignorance not of real Ozzies, but of human beings in general. I hope that you eventually grow up and open your eyes and get a educated.
I apologize in advance if this piece repeats itself or there are grammar errors present, it is not well edited.
I was born in Poland but have grown up in Australia. We left Poland when I was 5, lived in Italy for 3 years and then migrated to Australia. My extended family has lived here since just after the war.
I am saddened by the continuing ignorance from people everywhere in regards to Poland. I am really starting to find this offensive. They have an ‘image’ in their minds and they don’t want to shake it. People still hold onto silly ‘cold-war’ propaganda. This, unfortunately is fuelled by the most ignorant self-validating attitude of “They are bad/poor/miserable THEREFORE I must be special/good/happy”. Sadly human nature is such that if we are lacking a sense of validity we easily get sucked into these simplistic ‘my team is better than your team’ means of attaining this psychological problem. These ideas are hard to shake as we depend on these kinds of thoughts for well being. Worse, we seem to distort our own sense of self and heighten it, and also simultaneously diminish the worth of the ‘other team’ so as to make them look far worse then they may be.
If there is a “post communist” mentality in Poland I propose that there exists a “post-cold war” mentality in English speaking countries which is equally as harmful to all concerned. Naturally, this is only one layer of contributing why there is disharmony in interaction between former Soviet nations and the “West”, albeit an important one. (I put “West” in parentheses as I think this is a loaded term).
I don’t want to engage with the sillier side of AussieSheila’s post, but I want to attack the underlying presumptuous attitude in her, and others that I have encountered. She is clearly a teenage girl (or has the maturity of one).
The following incident, and another which I will not talk about as it is similar, sparked a process which led me to thoroughly consider my Polishness, my Ozziness and just what the hell is going on in the minds of people that they react so badly to Poles, who I consider cultured, civilised, well educated, and generally having a wit that could show a thing or two to the Irish (famous for their wit, apparently).
I was at MY local bar, one that I had been visiting for 10 years+ and a French girl, who was on “Find-an-Ozzie-Romance”. She lovingly and sexily looked into my eyes and asked me if I was Ozzie to which I replied “Yes”.
She then asked me if I was “Ozzie born and bred?” to which I replied that I was born in Poland.
At this point she made a look like I just took a s%&t in her mouth and said “Oh, so you are from Eastern Europe?”
I replied “No, I am from Melbourne, but I was born in Poland. Besides, Poland is not in Eastern Europe, it is in central Europe.”
She then says, get this “Oh, so you are from DEVELOPING Europe?” And I am thinking, what the f%#k is that supposed to mean?
Then I realised: there were certain stereotypes, unfair ones, which I seem to be held against the Poles by a significant numberer of seemingly civilised people, ie. the French.
These seem to include:
Glum/Depressed
Backwards
Not sociable or friendly
Dirty and Poor
Boring
Lacking in Culture
Part of the “East”
Polish women want to marry foreign men to get money/citizenship etc.
I will not try to address these as I think they have been reasonably well addressed on other posts the forum. I will however, make some general statements that form a loose comparison of what I know about Poland and Australia that will, hopefully, to the body of people who hold the views I have encountered, bring attention to the fact they are being insufferably ignorant.
I will also try to show that Australia and Poland have rather strong historical ties, rather unexpectedly. This is directly aimed at AussieSheila, Irish, English, Scottish people and their mild ‘Ango-Celtic’ pretense. Because there are so many Poles in these countries, and a large proportion of people from them are a bit slow at recognizing that human is as human does, they seem to propagate the nonsense that not only are Poles true to the stereotype and that Poland is a ‘hole’, but that a Pole can’t ever conceivably be an ‘Ozzie’ (the bane of my existence! Lol).
But first, a very curt but accurate social history lesson and commentary as it relates to identity in Australia. This will illustrate how farcical the notion of Australian “identity” really is. The point of this is to share my frustration with you and give you a bit of background as to why I have decided to write this mini essay in response the embarrassing “Ozzie” Troll encountered.
Australia is a stolen country. It is dominated by white, Anglo-Saxon and Celtic peoples. Namely, the English, Scottish and Irish. If don’t have a name that sounds like it is from one of these countries you are identified as not being ‘Australian’. The current prime minister was born in Wales, I noticed that she winced a little bit when quizzed about where she was from. There is this stupid thing here that if you are born here and you have the right name then you are “Ozzie” and if you are not and don’t have that name … well you really are not “Ozzie”. How bloody ridiculous. Now you tell me who is more “Ozzie”, the prime minister or some dead-beat bogan who was born here, of which there are pleeeenty. People who have an Ango-Celtic name think that if the can use a few banal and trite Ozzie phrases said in “‘Strain” (A bastardization of the word “Australian”, as in “Australian language”) that makes them unquestionably Australian. That they don’t know how many generations that they have been “Ozzie” for, where their family actually came from, and that Australia only became a Nation in 1901 does not seem to matter.
While there is plenty of ‘backwards’ and plainly racist thinking, it is kind of non-inflammatory and accepted because many, especially people from Italy, Greece are easily identifiable and to some degree I believe retain their own brand of Australian culture and identity that is sometimes at odds with being “Australian”. And these people don't give a s#^@t. The reality of the problem is can be seen when it rears its ugly head though, and needs to be dealt with eventually. Such as during the very embarrasing Cronulla racist riots. In my own way I hope I am doing that now, with however few people.
Australians (whoever that is!?!) are not racists, and what I refer to is only a mild undercurrent in terms of how they think. But there is something there, like an annoying humming. And like an annoying humming if it never stops then it can drive some people crazy.
Now, for some general points in comparison I want to make:
-Poland has far more impressive historical architecture than anything found in Australia, hands down. Australia has very little that is truly impressive.
-Australia has absolutely incredible nature. It is not as picturesque as that found in Europe, but it is simply stunning – sublime would be the word best to describe it. People usually refer to it as “rugged”, and that suits it just fine. It is diverse and exists on a massive scale.
-Australia has very serious mental health issues. Historically it has had extremely large numbers of heroin addicts and overdoses.
-Australia has very, very little culture that is its own – in fact I don’t think such a thing even exists. But what it does have is revered and usually involves WW1 and WW2, the Eureka stockade (which is really the history of workers generally, rather than Australia in particular), some beautiful poetry and other Art. Knowledge of this is not common, however.
-The state which the indigenous people of Australia live is as bad or worse than any 3rd world country. No matter what is said about Poland and its ‘shoddyness’, if you saw how these people live it would break your heart if you had any humanity in you at all. Shameful beyond the worst thing you can find anywhere in Poland.
-Australia is a melting pot of culture and people: 1/3 are English, 1/3 are Irish, 1/3 come from everywhere else in the world. I have pointed out the problem this creates in terms of identity. Poland is relatively homogenous.
Now a little about how Polish and Australian history is linked:
1. The Rats of Tobruk during WW2 were Australian and Polish forces fought side by side and got along famously. One soldier learned an Australian traditional song, without knowing a word of English and would entertain every batch of new Australians he met with it. Famous, funny story. Many of the Rats later settled in Australia for this reason.
2. Pawel Edmund Strzelecki was a very important Polish geologist/explorer and humanitarian. He explored huge tracts of Australia and also discovered and climbed its highest mountain and named it after a American Revolution hero Kosciuszko. A large national park is also named after him. This guy is big deal in terms of what Australia is.
3. There was a Pole on the First Fleet, that is, the first boat that came to Australia. Why does he never get mentioned or listed with the others who were on it?
4. Poles settled in areas around Adelaide very early in the show, just like other settlers.
AussieShiela, you, sadly represent the backwardness and ignorance not of real Ozzies, but of human beings in general. I hope that you eventually grow up and open your eyes and get a educated.
I apologize in advance if this piece repeats itself or there are grammar errors present, it is not well edited.