Off-Topic / Some Kurdish and Polish Similarities [53]

Oops. Dont take it that way "moj brat". I think there is to be an itsy-bitsy misunderstanding. Not my intention to give any pushing in terms of admitting some groundless root-finding ideas. I just simply brought a few instances out of which for sure there might be both non-related and cognate words. Since I did not stress "etymological similarities" but merely "similarities". And indisputably you aint gonna put the outward similarities under the question mark in at all.

As I affirmed above these are only similarities. In case you were interested, as I could reckon that you are, to get aware of some "etymological" likenesses between those Kurdish and Polish words I would be giving you these ones, of which I am utterly assured:

brat : bra, brat (archaic) : brother
być : bin : to be
co : ko, ce : what
dlugi : drejh : long
my : eme : we
nie : niye- : grammatical negative " not"
nowy : nowa : new
znać : zanin : to know

You can try them. All of these 8 definitions in both Kurdish and Polish share the same Indo European root indeed.

Off-Topic / Some Kurdish and Polish Similarities [53]

Lyzko, I am all an amateur linguist but I am surprised at you since it bewilders me to let it to my mind how come you, as a Linguist, do not know about some basic Polish words such as "znac", "co", or "my" sharing unique similarities with their Iranian counterparts?! Otherwise how come you come to think of and instantly express this: "Back to Linguist's point, these seeming cognates, actually aren't cognates at all::-))".

@ Piorun

Thanks for your call for consideration of mutual similarities in a wider range. Although I am only in good in linguistics (my diversion) as well as design (my education), but it is surprisingly gladdening to hear of such a ceremony within Poland similar to that of our Newroz. Also as you properly mentioned Kurdish, like Polish, is an Indo-European language and that means there might be etymological likenesses between these two languages. I gotta add that, as you again perceived correctly, I did not mean any etymological (or God forbid "borrowing") similarities by means of my first wordlist. It is from one of my posts in a Kurdish forum, posted some 2 years ago, and when I registered with your forum I just thought that list could be something useful in order to commence my contribution over here.

Off-Topic / Some Kurdish and Polish Similarities [53]

I got no horses to hold, I am on my own. I am really glad that you eventually got the point and recollected the "long-proven affinity between all Indo-European languages". By the way you are welcomed to judge the 8 words that I claimed to be etymologically cognates. Well I think in this case to say "refer to your linguistic sources" is more proper than using the verb "judge".

Yes a little comparison between Avestan / Saka and Old Church Slavic languages would be telling on many facts of course.

Yup bro, I am all aware of your point. Another exampel I could make would be Persian "bad" and English "bad" both come up in the most accurate semantic equality as well as an amazing outward resemblance, but surely not of the same origin.

As I have already mentioned, my initial list is merely to show some apparently similar Kurdish and Polish words. And I did not talk about their total etymological kinship anyways. I have prepared an Etymologically Similar Wordlist of Kurdish and Polish words, which I am abt to post in a new thread Deo volente.

Off-Topic / Some Kurdish and Polish Similarities [53]

@ King_Polkakamon

Well I think there you got a misconception. The term "Slavic", in its linguistic concept to my knowledge, is different from what you would ever refer to any ethnic group so-called Slavs or whatever. That is to say from a Linguistic viewpoint Polish language itself is obviously classified as a "West Slavic Language". You can google it.

There may be borrowings from related languages in any directions of course. But to consider Polish and Iranian similarities as other-Slavic borrowing wholly, is a big blunder. Since Polish is a Slavic language in fact.

Off-Topic / Some Kurdish and Polish Similarities [53]

Kurdish and Polish: An Etymological Similitude

The compared words below are Kurdish and Polish cognates, namely from the same Indo-European origin, however their modern meanings may have been occasionally diverged:

Kurdish : Polish : Proto Indo-European root

biv : pszczoła : bʰey* (bee)
birdin : brac : bʰer-* (to bear)
bon : budzic : bʰewd* (to wake up)
bín : byc : bʰuh* (to become)
brow : brew : bʰruh* (brow)
bra / brat (archaic) : brat : bʰreh-ter* (brother)
tawín : tayac : teh, w-* (to melt)
tem : ciemny : temo* (dark)
téw : cieply : tep* (warm)
tedre : cietrzew : teter* (grouse)
tiré (archaic) : trzy : treyes* (three)
dish : dziewierz : dehiwer* (husband's brother)
dan : dac : deh* (to give)
diréjh : długi : dluh, g* (long)
dijh : deszcz : dus* (fall)
du : dwa : dwoh* (two)
díní : dzien : dei-no* (day)
déw : dziw : déyw-o* (shining; Deity)
dar : drzewo : doru* (tree)
dayan : doic : dʰeh* (to suckle)
dirrig : drzazga : dʰergʰen* (thorn)
du : dym : dʰuh-mo* (smoke)
der : drzwi : dʰwer
zemí : ziemia : dʰegʰom* (earth)
zirk : serce : ker* (heart)
sirwe : słowo : klew* (to hear)
set : sto : kmtom* (hundred)
sipe : suka : kwo* (dog)
zayín : ziec : genH* (to give birth)
zanín : znac : gneH* (to know)
zerd : zołty : gʰel* (to shine)
zewer : zły : gʰew* (to bend)
zimig : zima : gʰei-mn* (winter)
call : cały : kaiko* (whole)
kof / koz : kaszlec : kwas* (cough)
cwar : cztery : ketworos* (four)
jhín : życ : gʷeiHw* (to live)
girr : gora : gʷer* (mountain)
jhin : żona : gʷen* (woman)
jhendin : gnac : gʷʰen* (to strike)
sipil : śledziona : splengʰ* (spleen)
wé stan : stac : steh* (stand)
húyín : świnia : suh* (swine)
shesh : sześc : swéks* (six)
ad : jeśc : h-ed* (to eat)
hes : jest : h-es* (to be)
rishtin : rzygac : h-reug* (to vomit)
stirí : ostry : h-ek* (sharp)
joq : igo : yugom* (yoke)
wetar : widziec : weyd* (to see, to know)
wiz : wiaz : wingʰ* (elm)
lésín : lizac : leig* (to lick)
lawan : lubic : lewb* (to love)
min : mnie : me* (me)
mey : miod : medhu* (mead)
megen (<meden) : miedzy : medyo* (between)
meng : miesiac : meh-nos* (moon)
mirdin : martwy : mer* (to die)
miro : mrowka : morwi* (ant)
meshk : mozg : mosgo* (brain)
muz : mucha : mu* (housefly)
mishk : mysz : muH-s* (mouse)
mak : matka : méh-ter* (mother)
man : maż : manu* (person)
núwa : niebo : nebhos* (cloud)
nutek : noc : nokʷts* (night)
nowa : nowy : néwos* (new)


Ok nothing is wrong with it. But you mentioned "we [Polish people] borrowed from Slavs", and it doesnt make sense becuz Polish people are themselves Slavs. I dont know whether you find it offensive to be called Slav or something like that but plz dont take it I just mean it from a linguistic aspect.

Off-Topic / Some Kurdish and Polish Similarities [53]

Indeed. But it is not referred to as "similarity" it is "borrowing". And for your knowledge many dialectal Kurdish varieties are contaminated by Turkic (Turkish, Azerbaijani, Turcoman) languages.

Some people may think that what is the similarity between Kurdish "zewer" and Polish "zly". For them it should be stated that sound changes are important. If you heed the Proto Indo European (PIE) and Kurdish / Polish words you will get that PIE "g" changes to "z" in both Kurdish(Iranian) and Polish(Slavic). Also PIE "k" is retained as "s/z" in Kurdish and "s" in Polish. Such likenesses make these (Iranian / Slavic) languages look similar, in a unique and peerless way of course.

Off-Topic / Some Kurdish and Polish Similarities [53]


I am sure you cannot feel me completely but Turkish loanwords used to be my nightmare! I Yes they are, I dont know the proper term, as you said "horrible-sounding". But I cannot believe that you got Turkish words in Polish too?! How come since Poland was never ever under the sway of Ottomans. Would you please example some of those Turkish loanwords?

Off-Topic / Some Kurdish and Polish Similarities [53]

Thanks for your comment STFU. But all due respect I am afraid none of the words mentioned under the post "An Etymological Similitude" are coincidentally similar.

However for example Kurdish "nav" and Polish "nazwa" are most likely similar in an accidental manner.

Thanks by the way, language is all I got :wink:


Yes. Also "sky" or "Tuesday" are non-English loans of Scandinavian origin. But these instances dont halt us from the fact that English "house", German "Haus", and Dutch "huis" are etymologically similar and no one has borrowed it from the others. :)

Off-Topic / Some Kurdish and Polish Similarities [53]

First I noticed exclusive similarities between Kurdish and Russian. From then on I recognized that almost all Slavic languages, including Polish, share some unique likenesses with Kurdish (and Iranian languages) too.

To me it is interesting to see how come after at least three milleniums still languages such as Kurdish and Polish got something in common. Regarding to the fact that the speakers of these two language never ever been in a close contact during the last three milleniums! I also got a very beloved friend who's from Poland and her presence in our local forum motivated me to have a virtual journey over a Polish forum in return. :)

Off-Topic / Some Kurdish and Polish Similarities [53]

@ Amathyst
I see. Yes you are right. Although I think Scandinavian or German influences are easier to bear with since these languages are in a pretty closer connection with English already. But French and totally Romance (Latin, Spanish, French, etc) borrowings take English a little bit far from its original spot. If I am not mistaken the first fella who attempted to purify English suggested the below sentence instead of the very well-known "to be or not to be, this is the question":

To be or not to be, this is the ask-thing

Anyways English is already an all cool language. :)


I know. Well yes for sure Germanic languages share more similarities with each other than what would they do with Romance or Slavic or Iranian languages. The same thing happens for Slavic languages too. But as a linguistically confirmed fact, Iranian and Slavic languages share some unique similarities which bring them into a particular connection, not attested amongst other groups. For example P.I.E "k" changes into "s" in both Iranian and Slavic languages and in Germanic it becomes "h", whilst Romance languages keep it unchanged and Armenian retains it as "sh". You can see the above fact if you take a brief look at the word "dog" in the mentioned languages:

P.I.E : kwon*

Iranian and Slavic "k > s"
Iranian: spe (Kurdish) < spaka < svaka* < sva(n)ak* < kwon
Slavic: suka (Polish) < swaka* < svaka* < sva(n)ak* < kwon

Germanic "k > h"
Germanic: Hund (German) < khund* < khwan* < kwon

Romance "k > c"
Romance: canis (Latin) < kwan-is* < kwon*

Armenian "k > sh"
Armenian: shun < chun* < kun* < kwon*

May be Polish "suka" and Kurdish "spe" / "spek" would not appear very similar in an ordinary guys eyes but for someone with an eye for Linguistics they are pretty similar.


I am sorry that I have to express so, but in this case what you or me think do not matter ever. The above given examples (An Etymological Similitude) are resulted from the immense labor of linguists throughout history and are scientifically proved. They all do share the same root and are by no means to be speculated of any coincidental likeness at all. Brother, I am not making up my lists you can personally go after the Polish words and hunt up their Proto Indo European roots one by one.


I see. Yea I do love to immerse myself into a sea of words too. However the inspiration of mine comes to me sporadically and I do compose some really amateur poems in Kurdish and Persian once in a blue moon.


Yes I am aware the confrontation of Slavic and Turkic tribes in the history. But if you told me Bulgarian, Serbian, Croatian, or even Ukrainian and Russian got Turkish loans, I wouldn’t get astonished becuz these nations have been in close contact with Turks as well as they have gone thru a period of Turkish rule somehow. But to my little knowledge Polish people never ever been under any Turkish rule and it was really amazing to hear of Turkish loans in Polish. Maybe they are military terms or I don’t know maybe you have got them via other Slavic languages. Anyways I have the vaguest idea about it.

@ Asik

Well revered "Asik", thanks for your remarks. But I aint gonna respond your comments on "An Etymological Similitude" one by one, since they are merely your personal views and utterly against the scientifically proven linguistic facts, and therefore they are of no authenticity and importance.

Here my point is to stress on the "unique" and "scientific" similarities between Kurdish (as an Iranian) and Polish (as a Slavic language).

One little example I would prefer to make, you wrote:
"wiz : wiaz : wingʰ* (elm) - nothing here! wiąz doesn't look or sound like wiz"

Regardless of the fact that even a 10 year old kid could recognize the apparent similarity between "wiz" and "wiąz"; the worthy of mention linguistic point is that both Kurdish (Iranian) and Polish (Slavic) languages develop original "g" into "z". Whilst no other linguistic group, outside of either Iranian or Slavic, represents such a shift at all.

You also stated: "but we all are connected with the rest of the earth's population, simply because we are humans and as humans we all are able to speak !"

I didn’t deny our global connection neither I claimed we are not humans nor I talked a single word about our ability to speak! I just simply tried to say we, somehow, speak alike. I don’t know what ever for but some people over here seem really spoiling for causeless infuriation and starting off prejudice, unfortunately.

I am not here to claim any thing but simply linguistic facts. And my mentioned similarities are not and could not be demeaning you or your national entity or any thing like that once in a thousand years! Nonetheless people around our round world often welcome such topics specially when they, the topics, are impartially accurate and sincere.

Off-Topic / Some Kurdish and Polish Similarities [53]


"Furious" is exactly a loanword of Latin origin via Old Frisian (?) or Old French (?). I couldnt get it properly because in the "Online Etymology Dictionary" it is accounted under the entry "furious":

"late 14c., from O.Fr. furieus, from L. furiosus "full of rage, mad," from furia "rage, passion, fury." Furioso, from the It. form of the word, was used in Eng. 17c.-18c. for "an enraged person," probably from Ariosto's "Orlando Furioso.""

But if I am not gonna be mistaken, I think "Old French" is correct. It is a loan via Old French.

Off-Topic / Some Kurdish and Polish Similarities [53]


Any time pal. :)


Well I am not exactly a linguist it is not my profession of course. But I do love linguistics rabidly. And, as a Taurean, I often grasp whatever I literally love.

Unluckily I don’t know who exactly came up with those terms for the first time. But one thing is for sure, they are the only terms in effect. For instance you cannot refer to German, English, or Danish, as any thing outside of "Germanic language". I agree sometimes some terms are not appropriate nevertheless they benefit from a general acceptance amongst Linguists.


;)

Language / Does anybody know of a list of Polish-English False Friends and True Friends? [60]

I am afraid but the story of "false-friends" and "tru-friends" might not encompass those words which are already "loans" from a tertiary language. That is to say Polish "hazard" ~ "gambling" and English "hazard", are both of an Arabic origin (Arabic "az-zahr" ~ "to die") which have adopted new semantic concepts. The same thing also occurs for English "lunatic" and Polish "lunatyk" (sleepwalker) where they both are originally borrowed from Latin "lunaticus" (moon-struick).

I am not sure but Polish "gnat" (bone) and English "gnat" could be considered as sorts of false-friend. Or Dutch "die" (that) and English "die".

However in a pure "false-friends" instance both words would carry outward as well as semantic similarities but no etymologies in common. For example English "bad" and Persian "bad" both convey the same meaning and exactly resemble each other but are by no means derived from the same root. Or Kurdish "neq" and English "neck" both besides their similar definitions look like each other too, but are not etymological cognates.

Language / Does anybody know of a list of Polish-English False Friends and True Friends? [60]

It is an American, to my knowledge, phenomenon in which "milliard" gave way to "billion". But its true and logical concept is still remained in British English as well as in the other languages. A "billion" got twice zeros compared to that of a "million" and "trillion" got three times as many zeros as a "million". By the way "bi-" means "two" and "tri-" means "three".

Language / Does anybody know of a list of Polish-English False Friends and True Friends? [60]

So you mean it is not an American originated concept but a European one?! Then I think you gotta take a look at this fella:

jimloy.com/math/billion.htm

Language / Does anybody know of a list of Polish-English False Friends and True Friends? [60]

Ok now I get you. You got me misunderstandingly. I wrote this:

"It is an American, to my knowledge, phenomenon in which "milliard" gave way to "billion". But its true and logical concept is still remained in British English as well as in the other languages."

I didn't talk abt the origin of scaling, but only abt the phenomenon in which "milliard" gives way to "billion". And for sure it is an American phenomenon which is logically and historically not true, but apparently accepted, according to my given source, amongst scientists.

Language / Does anybody know of a list of Polish-English False Friends and True Friends? [60]

lol are you kidding me bro? There is difference for sure. In origination of scaling "billion" is something and in its modern American concept it is something else. As you mentioned scaling itself is originated from somewhere else but America. Nonetheless that using "billion" instead of "milliard" is originated from America. This is the difference, however they both regard scaling overally.

Off-Topic / Some Kurdish and Polish Similarities [53]

Es war eine lustige Anekdote, Lyzko. I think here every one is aware of etymological and non-etymological similarities now. ;)

Off-Topic / Some Kurdish and Polish Similarities [53]


Do you have any materials on this stuff? Or it is just your "personal perception"? By the way I didnt claim my English is perfect. I find it, English, cool "personally". I dont think to express a personal opinion would be funnier than "claiming to be a Polish linguist but denying etymological likeness between Polish "znac" and Kurdish "zanin" at the same time. ;)


I see. Well therefore we are astrologically compatible, lol. I am a Tiger Taurus. Taurean is referred to a Taurus born person. May I know what was your ex-wife's sign?

?? See above description. Got that from a Dutch etymologic dictionary.

Sorry I have no idea about Ariosto's Orlando Furioso, so what does it have to do with a Dutch?

Language / Does anybody know of a list of Polish-English False Friends and True Friends? [60]

I see, I thought it is used for the first time in America, this way. Thanks for your illumination.

Off-Topic / Some Kurdish and Polish Similarities [53]

I see. So it has wandered this way from Latin to English : Latin > French > Dutch > English. Certainly you wouldnt use a Russian dictionary. :) I love your language (probably that Polish linguist would come again while shouting "it is funny people who dont know any Dutch, love this language!" ;)

Off-Topic / Some Kurdish and Polish Similarities [53]


It seems to be your intrinsic orientation to take it that way.


If an individual Kurd loved Dutch, then some Dutch would be going to make a pot out of it?! lol, you mean after this therefore because of this? ;)

Some Etymological Similarities between Kurdish and Dutch:

Kurdish : Dutch : English
berza : berg (heights/mountain)
hend : einde (end)
adan : eten (edibles/to eat)
der : deur (door)
dep : diep (deep)
ez : ik (I)
ene : in (in)
jar : jaar (period/year)
mang : maan (moon)
man : man (guy/man)
min : mijn (my)
ro : rood (red)
dan : tand (tooth)

History / Casimir the Great (Kazimierz Wielki) started anti-Semitism? [101]


Even an obvious indication such as "an eye for an eye" was already interpreted as "a fine that must be paid off for the sake of an eye inujry compensation", amongst Rabbinical community a couple of centuries before diaspora-and subsequently any presence of Jews within Poland. So I can assure you "getting boiled in the oil" is not something one could ever use as an instrument to brand Jews.

History / Casimir the Great (Kazimierz Wielki) started anti-Semitism? [101]

I agree. There is no plausible pretexts to hold animosity towards a specific folk. That is to say no action or inaction from any individuals, including Casmir the Great for instance, must result into such ill-feelings about a group of people.


I am afraid but this, as you remarked, squable is, in accordance with history and the ongoing circumstances on the earth, one of the hugest issues in mankind's bygone causing many disgracful historical events so far.

History / Casimir the Great (Kazimierz Wielki) started anti-Semitism? [101]


I did a lil search and I hunted up that by late 2006 some 25,000 Jews were over there in Poland. Anyways it is not lonlily a matter of Jews. You, as Poles, should take care of every single hint of intolerance within your society towards other people. And of course in a more general aspect it is not only you who are ethically obliged to do so, but the entire human societies are respectively responsible too.


Let me make an example. Suppose I am an owner of a swell hotel in your twon and one day your mayor comes to me and privileges me however my new extra-rights would seem unfair and aggravating to you. So which one of us you should loathe due to this aggravation?


Maybe you should tell us?


Sorry I know it is splitting hair but are not they both on the same-Northern bloody hemisphere?


Well dont you get so! :) We should know how to deal with different situations and bad circumstances should not lead us into worse things. ;)


I think every one appreciates your feelings and worries about your home. I assure you reality is never ever to be distorted or concealed. Ceratinly the bulk of Polish people hold such feelings towards the others, as beautiful as their extra-beautiful country. :)

History / Casimir the Great (Kazimierz Wielki) started anti-Semitism? [101]

Honestly your last line made me come to think that you might be trying to convey some unsavory feelings about them by stressing "extraordinary priviliges". Anyways I hope you would correct your previous question as well.

History / Casimir the Great (Kazimierz Wielki) started anti-Semitism? [101]


No one is gonna reject the unjust essence of some social phenomenons in the medieval Europe. But I still wonder if these priviliges could cause hatred toward any groups, so why did not Polish people find abhorance about kingships that were allegedly given to privilige particular classes during their sovereign? Since to my knowledge Poles did not get ride of royalism until it was once and for always overthrown by the Nazi German. Please correct if I am wrong. By the way you still didnt correct your last question. :(


That is it all about.

History / Casimir the Great (Kazimierz Wielki) started anti-Semitism? [101]


I was given to assume there was a royal government until 1939. Well I had no idea that Polish people lost their independence by 1795 and it was no sooner than 1918 that a republican government began to rule over there.

History / Casimir the Great (Kazimierz Wielki) started anti-Semitism? [101]


It still doesnt justify racial intolerance, does it?


What is wrong with Polish immigrants in the UK?


For your information "rhetorical questions" could be gonna need correction in case of incorrectness. Like "are women equal to men? Are they?! or "are not all your girls cheap easy-pierced sluts?!"