News / New Polish president and Russian/American relations [37]


In this tough world you can't be an ALIEN (NATO or Warsaw pact as example)

As far as i know Poland did not get many benefits after join EU?

History / Why did Russia attack Poland in WW2? [178]

On January, 12th
1940 Memorandum of the French ambassador with remarks concerning the breadboard model of the collection of the English-ex-Soviet negotiations prepared by the English party:
"As a result of reading of these documents the impression is made that from the very beginning and till the end of negotiations Russian government persistently aspired to giving to the discussed contract as much as possible universal and effective character.

It is represented that this aspiration of the Soviet government effectively to block all ways for the German aggression irrespectively from that, it is sincere or not, constantly faced the English-French restraint and obvious intention of two governments to limit sphere of Russian intervention … As a result in the planned collection will find the acknowledgement is glad those arguments who - is sincere or not - asserts that the government of the USSR was threw on the party of Germany only owing to fluctuations of England and France, their unwillingness unconditionally to act on the party of Moscow...

English "the Dark blue book" risks to cause thereby the extremely undesirable polemic in present conditions ". [PRO, FO, 371/24395, pp. 70-72.] [4]
On January, 18th
1940 Question on the publication "Dark blue book" is discussed at session of the British office. Halifax has spoken against her publication. As a result the office "has agreed that the offered publication" Dark blue book "about negotiations with the Soviet government in the summer of 1939 is represented now inexpedient". [PRO, FO, 371/24395, pp. 87] [4]

On January, 19th
1940 *) the French government under the agreement with the English government has offered the general M.Gamelenu and admiral F. Darlanu to develop the plan "Direct intrusion to caucasus". The Deputy нач. The General staff of the Air Forces of France a gene. Бержеро: "from r thow Near East approach to Baku … will begin Then it will develop in northern direction towards to the armies coming from Scandinavia and Finland to Moscow. [P.Stehlin. Temoignage pour l'Ristoire. Paris, 1964, p.215]

Spring
1940 *) the Plan "MA-6" (Great Britain) and "RIP" (France) about bombardment of Baku, Grozny and Batumi (intended to allocate 90-100 planes of type "Glenn Martin" and "Blenhejm" shown in 9 groups). ["Forses aeriennes francases", decembre 1961, p.842].

On March, 16th
1940 *) Doklad Gamelena about "war Conducting" (about intrusion into the Soviet Transcaucasia) [J.Bardoux. Journal d'un temoin de la troisieme. Paris. 1957. p.203-204]).

On March, 20th
1940 *) Meeting in Aleppo (Syria): by June 1940 building of 20 airdromes for performance of plans "MA-6" and "RIP" will be finished.
On April, 17th
1940 *) Vejgan (a clod. English forces in Syria and Lebanon) Gamelenu: "preparation of air blow will be finished by the end of June - to the beginning of July". [M.Weygand. Memoires. v.3. Paris, 1950, p.71].

Spring-summer
1942 London Polish government refuses to send the armies formed in territory of the USSR, on front and has deduced them to the Near East (it was just during Stalingrad fight).

• 1933 - Refusal of Poland to take part in the offered USSR "East pact". Poland and Germany have suggested the USSR to conclude such pact without France and Czechoslovakia but on such conditions the USSR has refused

• January 1934 - Nonaggression pact between Germany and Poland.

On March, 7th
1936 Introduction by Germany of armies in the Rhine area. Poland has supported this step. In the answer France has declared that has no more obligations to Warsaw. Great Britain has taken of a neutral position. Later Poland also has supported Anschluss Austria.

On October, 2nd
1938 Polish armies occupied Czech Teshin and territory adjoining to him (also [3]). Thus, Poland together with Hitlerite Germany participated in occupation and a partition of Czechoslovakia and input of the Soviet armies to Poland was not unique and not the first similar action of that time.

On April, 14th
1939 British government has suggested Soviet Union to give unilateral obligations to neighboring countries. Obligations to the USSR it was not provided.

1939 Soviet-Japanese conflict on the river the Halhin-goal. During the same time Great Britain concludes the contract with the Japanese government.
June
1939 Confidential negotiations of Great Britain with Germany on sections of spheres of influence. Germany was offered Russia and China.
October
1939 Consideration by committee of chiefs of staffs of Great Britain of a question "About positive and announcement negative sides Great Britain wars of Russia (it even before the Finnish war!).

It is obvious that the facts and the statements, similar the aforesaid, always try to trace foreign policy departments of all countries. And, most likely, appreciably then all it was known to a management of the USSR. Therefore there is nothing surprising in the followed list towards Germany. And to accuse Russia of it probably nevertheless hypocrisy. Or, the modern language, "display of double standards".


On September, 30th, 1938 Warsaw has sent official inquiry to Berlin: whether she can count on a benevolent position of Germany if as a result of forthcoming intrusion of the Polish armies into Czechoslovakia there will be a confrontation between Poland and the USSR?

It means that Poland was already ready to begin war with the USSR at any moment!

So whom at that point in time to Stalin followed be afraid more — Poland or Germany?

History / WW2 - The other side. What USSR, also that the Polish government has made not to admit WW2 [45]

Map of Europe

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History / WW2 - The other side. What USSR, also that the Polish government has made not to admit WW2 [45]


On April, 25th, 1920 — Poland without declaration of war has attacked Russia which is bleeding profusely in civil war, and under the Riga contract has appropriated a part of the Ukrainian and Belorussian earths.

In October, 1920 the Polish armies have grasped Vilno and Vilensky area at Lithuania, inconsiderately having broken the Suvalksky contract.

On May, 3rd, 1921 Poland a military way has begun capture of the Top Silesia. Allies have warned Berlin that intervention рейхсвера will mean war. As a result by October, 1921 to Poland the considerable part of the Top Silesia from 80 % of all industry and the basic part of coal stocks has departed.

In October, 1938 Poland has attacked Czechoslovakia, having snipped off at last Teshinsky area where lived 80 thousand Poles and 120 thousand Czechs. Thus the industrial potential of the grasped territory was the main acquisition of Poles: the enterprises located there gave in the end of 1938 almost half of pig-iron and a steel, made in Poland.

During all 20-30th years Poland didn't leave intentions to annex Lithuania. Have especially inspired Warsaw Hitler's aggressive actions in Austria in March of 1938. By the way, with Hitler's fascist mode the Polish management long time was in rather good fellowship, having concluded the non-aggression pact in 1934. When Hitler 1938 carried out on March, 11-12th annex Austria, Warsaw has tried to do the same with Lithuania (which called precisely «the Polish Austria»). On March, 15th, 1938 in Warsaw and Vilno have passed the Antilithuanian demonstrations under the general slogan «Forward on Kovno!» (To Kaunas — capital of Lithuania of that time). To Lithuania the ultimatum has been delivered, and to the Lithuanian border is concentrated over 100 thousand Polish armies. And only the position of the USSR and France has kept Poland from military intrusion.

The Poland does not looks very peaceful country at all ))


What else to do if everybody against you :

Poland constantly tried to grasp the free city of Danzig, arranged provocations, and only protests of Germany and a resolute position of England and France haven't allowed it to carry out the plans.

On December, 28th, 1938 just appointed the envoy of Poland in Iran J.Karsho-Sedlevsky has told in conversation with the adviser of embassy of Germany in Poland R.Shelija:

«The political prospect is clear for the European East. In some years Germany will be at war with Soviet Union... For Poland it is better to support absolutely definitely to the conflict Germany as territorial interests of Poland in the west and political ends of Poland in the east, first of all in Ukraine, can be provided only by in advance reached Polish-German agreement. He, Karsho-Sedlevsky, will subordinate the activity as the Polish envoy in Teheran to realization of this great east concept as it is necessary to convince and induce eventually also Persians and Afghans to play an active role in the future war vs USSR.

Recognition of Ribbentropa after a meeting with the Minister for Foreign Affairs of Poland Bekom on January, 26th, 1939: «Mr. Bek didn't hide that Poland applies for the Soviet Ukraine and on an exit to Black sea».

Or here the deputy minister of foreign affairs of Poland count Shembek directs on December, 10th, 1938 the instruction to the Polish ambassador in Moscow Grzhibovsky:

«It is extremely difficult to us to keep balance between Russia and Germany. Our relations with last completely are based on concept of the most responsible persons of the Third Reich which assert that in the future conflict between Germany and Russia Poland is the natural ally of Germany».

In December, 1938 in the report of 2nd (prospecting) department of a general staff of the Army Polish it was in plain terms specified:

«The partition of Russia underlies the Polish policy in the east... Therefore our possible position will be reduced to the following formula: who will take part in section. Poland shouldn't remain passive during this remarkable historical moment. The problem consists in that it is beforehand good to be prepared physically and spiritually... The Overall objective — easing and defeat of Russia» («Z dziejow stosunkow polsko-radzieckich. Studia i materialy», T.III. Warszawa, 1968, S. 262, 287)

History / What do Poles owe to Russians? [193]


How about that?:

In December, 1938 in the report of 2nd (prospecting) department of a general staff of the Army Polish it was in plain terms specified:

«The partition of Russia underlies the Polish policy in the east... Therefore our possible position will be reduced to the following formula: who will take part in section. Poland shouldn't remain passive during this remarkable historical moment. The problem consists in that it is beforehand good to be prepared physically and spiritually... The Overall objective — easing and defeat of Russia» («Z dziejow stosunkow polsko-radzieckich. Studia i materialy», T.III. Warszawa, 1968, S. 262, 287).

History / WW2 - The other side. What USSR, also that the Polish government has made not to admit WW2 [45]

I think everything is clear :Minister for Foreign Affairs Molotov has well told about efforts of Soviet Union on a preservation of peace in Europe at session of the Supreme body of the USSR on August, 31st, 1939:

«You know that the English-ex-Soviet negotiations about the conclusion of the pact of mutual aid mind aggression in Europe have begun in April. However, the first offers of the English government, as it is known, were absolutely unacceptable. They ignored the basic preconditions of such negotiations — ignored a principle of reciprocity and equal obligations. Despite this, Soviet government hasn't refused negotiations and has in turn brought the offers... But these negotiations have encountered absolute obstacles... These negotiations have encountered that Poland which should guarantee in common England, France and the USSR, has refused the military help from Soviet Union. To overcome these objections of Poland and it was not possible. More than that, negotiations have shown that England and doesn't aspire to overcome these objections of Poland, and, on the contrary, supports them. It is clear that at such position of the Polish government and his main ally to business of rendering of the military help from Soviet Union on an aggression case, the English-ex-Soviet negotiations couldn't give good results. After that it became clear to us that the English-ex-Soviet negotiations are doomed to a failure.

What have shown negotiations with England and France?

The English-ex-Soviet negotiations have shown that the position of England and France is penetrated through by glaring contradictions. Judge.

On September, 25th, 1938 in conversation with the American colleague the Polish ambassador in Paris Lukasevich has declared:

«Religious war between fascism and the Bolshevism begins, and in case of rendering of the help of Czechoslovakia by Soviet Union Poland is ready to war from the USSR shoulder to shoulder with Germany. The Polish government is assured that within three months Russian armies will be completely crushed also Russia won't represent more even similarity of the state»


My Grand-grandfather was a guard of the last Russian Tsar, by the way he was a half Polish, so what i can say...

I've never was a member of the communist party, and i hate that in 1st class there was portrait of Lenin in front of textbooks..

But was a good side of that time...no drugs, no desease, free education, appartments, good medicine, less crime....

History / What do Poles owe to Russians? [193]


Poland was going to occupy NOT SIMPLY Russia, but also to destroy:

On September, 25th, 1938 in conversation with the American colleague the Polish ambassador in Paris Lukasevich has declared:

«Religious war between fascism and the Bolshevism begins, and in case of rendering of the help of Czechoslovakia by Soviet Union Poland is ready to war from the USSR shoulder to shoulder with Germany. The Polish government is assured that within three months Russian armies will be completely crushed also Russia won't represent more even similarity of the state».

I think we are quits.

History / Why did Russia attack Poland in WW2? [178]


Bigger fish eat smaller fish... i 100% agree


They done something before and if that happened ones it could happen again:

On April, 25th, 1920 — Poland without declaration of war has attacked Russia which is bleeding profusely in civil war, and under the Riga contract has appropriated a part of the Ukrainian and Belorussian earths.

In October, 1920 the Polish armies have grasped Vilno and Vilensky area at Lithuania, inconsiderately having broken the Suvalksky pact.

P.S. I like all people, Russia and Poland should stay together with other eastern countries, but they let Americans to rule them....

History / WW2 - The other side. What USSR, also that the Polish government has made not to admit WW2 [45]


The GREAT EU will do better :

The authorities of the European Union demand from Poland to give the plan of closing of a considerable part of an unprofitable shipyard in Gdansk where there was trade union "Solidarity".

As has informed the Polish agency of FATHERS, the deputy minister of economy of Poland Pavel Pontsiliush has declared that the country won't dismantle two of three building berths of Gdansk shipyard as that is demanded by the European commission.

The former shipyard of a name of Lenin in Gdansk where in 1980 independent trade union "Solidarity" led by Lehom Valensoj has arisen, is unprofitable also long time kept afloat at the expense of the state grants.

The majority of the Polish ship-building enterprises on Baltic was subsidized: since 2002 of shipyard of Gdansk, Gdynia and Szczecin have received at least 1,3 billion euro.

By EU rules, the state help in ship-building branch should be combined with radical plans of re-structuring.

In all similar projects should participate and a private sector, and "the deforming effect of the help should be compensated by reduction of capacities", the Eurocommission has declared.

For this reason on July, 20th EU executive office has suggested to leave from Gdansk shipyard only one building berth from three existing, or to return all grants received from the state that will lead to full bankruptcy of the enterprise.

History / WW2 - The other side. What USSR, also that the Polish government has made not to admit WW2 [45]


EU is a big trap for eastern europe, they will lend you a money, destroying you production at the same time and they know that you can't pay back, 'cause you've nothing to produce to sell, prices are rising up, wages are down, easy to rule countries like that, they will tell you what to do..

History / WW2 - The other side. What USSR, also that the Polish government has made not to admit WW2 [45]


Dear David,

Today is year 2011, but you are somewhere in 1970-80th still fighting like a partisan against Ghost named "USSR" and if you can only judge Russia by "


, i feel very sorry to you 'cause you know nothing about what is the country like....

History / What do Poles owe to Russians? [193]


On April, 25th, 1920 — Poland without declaration of war has attacked Russia which is bleeding profusely in civil war, and under the Riga contract has appropriated a part of the Ukrainian and Belorussian earths.

In October, 1920 the Polish armies have grasped Vilno and Vilensky area at Lithuania, inconsiderately having broken the Suvalksky contract.

The USSR never started 1st against Poland, so what do you expect?

I agree that Stalin is bad, but it is revolution made the Stalin and if you read the history, you will find were the revolution came from.. and on who's money made...

History / What do Poles owe to Russians? [193]


Never knew that....

History / WW2 - The other side. What USSR, also that the Polish government has made not to admit WW2 [45]


100% agree

The was a good idea, but dose not work...

History / WW2 - The other side. What USSR, also that the Polish government has made not to admit WW2 [45]


I like EU in general, but that system remind me something....good idea (something behind this), but money not enough for all countries, the strongest economies : Germany, France... Mix together all the nations makes them "without a sort and a tribe", destroy your history, culture, they will not take care about new members, use them as a cheap labor, no respect.They need young people to keep there populations and bring you 1000's refugees from Africa or else were and you can't deny, You are not belong to your self... Sorry, We are...

You might be interesting in this movie, name: "End of Game"

History / WW2 - The other side. What USSR, also that the Polish government has made not to admit WW2 [45]


It's just a point of someones view, why you so worry? Are you one of "THEM" -))))))))))


I've got the question and just answering on it, you might have different view of this...

History / WW2 - The other side. What USSR, also that the Polish government has made not to admit WW2 [45]


The Reds are coming !!! - Scared? - i don't ))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

Some thing is just good to know rather put a head in sand

History / WW2 - The other side. What USSR, also that the Polish government has made not to admit WW2 [45]


37th US president Richard Nixon heading the country with 1969 on 1974 considered that "Jews are disgusting creations".

Shorthand reports of conversations of the president with his advisers have got to the Internet and open a picture of Nixon's sharply negative attitude to Israel, Zionism and to the Soviet Jewry.

"All people have distinctive features. And so Jews behave aggressively and disgustingly", - the president considered.

In 1973 the group of the Soviet Jews in the message secretly transferred to the west, asked Nixon and its administration to promote him in attempt to overcome the Iron Curtain and to leave to Israel and the USA. The president has declared that the United States aren't interested in emigration of Jews from Soviet Union, informs mignews.com.

"If Jews of the USSR will send in gas chambers and then it doesn't become business of the USA", - Nixon concluded

You can continue to love your western friends..

History / WW2 - The other side. What USSR, also that the Polish government has made not to admit WW2 [45]


Approach of the Polish armies in Belarus

In the end of February the Polish armies forced Neman and have begun approach in Belarus (since February, 3rd were in federation with RSFSR(USSR))

For approach preparation to the east the Polish armies in Belarus, the received reinforcements, have been divided into three parts: Polssk group general Anthon Listovsky, the Volynsk group - general Edward Rydz-Smigly ordered, on a line of Shchitno-Skidel there was a Litovsko-Belorussian division of general Vaclav Ivashkevicha-Rudoshansky. To the south from them there were divisions of generals of Juliusha Rummelja and Tadeusha Rozvadovsky.

ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Файл:PL-RU_war_1919_phase_II.svg


Jews run again to Russia from Germany

Now there is an active process return Jews from Germany to Russia, whence they have left in 1990th years, has informed on Wednesday in Moscow at a meeting with the president of Germany Christian Woolf.

"The tendency of returning of many left before Jews from Germany back to Russia is now observed. And this one more certificate of how religious life in the country" dynamically develops, - the main rabbi of the Russian Federation has declared Berl Lazar.

Lazar has noticed that today in Russia there are many positive changes in religion area, the government top-level keeps development of religious communities, promotes interreligious dialogue ".

According to Lazar, the state management substantially promotes dialogue between representatives of various religions. Confirming to this fact the rabbi has cited as an example the course of bases of religious cultures entered now at schools and secular ethics, informs interfax.ru.

Jews - the people of a Semitic origin which are going back to the population of ancient Israeli and Judaic kingdoms, living in many countries of the world and the recreated (1948) Jewish state Israel. Number from 12 to 14 million people, from them about 40 % in Israel and 35 % in the USA.

History / WW2 - The other side. What USSR, also that the Polish government has made not to admit WW2 [45]


Sights of Russia under the aegis of UNESCO
The Kremlin. Moscow. Russia
Red Square. Moscow. Russia.
Baikal. Russia.
Kizhsky country churchyard. Russia.
The big Palace. Petrodvorets. Russia.
Fountains. Petrodvorets. St.-Petersburg.
The Solovetsky Islands. Russia.
Virgin forests of Kareliya. Russia.
To Trinity - Sergieva of Laurels in Sergiev Posad.
Tent church of Rise. Kolomna. Russia.
Nikolsky church. Suzdal. Russia.
Uspensky Cathedral. Vladimir. Russia.
Spassky monastery. Yaroslavl. Russia.
Volcanoes of Kamchatka. Russia.
Farapontov a monastery (Christmas)

New maiden Smolensk Ikony Prechistoj Bogoroditsy a female monastery.
Novgorod. Yurjev's a monastery. Russia.
Kazan kremlin.
Troitsk Tower
Tower of Sjujumbeki, palace church,
Palace of the governor. Russia.
Fortress. Derbent. Dagestan. Russia.

«The Golden Ring of Russia»
Vasily Blazhennogo's temple. Moscow
Suzdal. A Pokrovsk monastery. Russia
Kostroma. A Bogojavlensky monastery. Russia
Kostroma. Revival church on Debre
Bogolyubovo. The Cover temple on Nerli.
Bogolyubovo. A female monastery. Russia

Yaroslavl. A Spassky monastery
Uglich. The Kremlin. «A palace of tsarevitch Dimitrija»
Vladimir. An Uspensky Cathedral. Russia
Vladimir. A monument to Andrey Rublyov. Russia
Alexanders. The Kremlin. An Uspensky monastery
Pereslavl - Zalessky. The Goritsky monastery
Rostov Great. Спасо - the Jakovlevsky monastery
Sights of Russia
Mamayev Kurgan. Volgograd. Russia
Baikal. Russia.
Kizhsky country churchyard. Russia.
Monument 1000th Russia. Novgorod. Russia
The big Palace. Petrodvorets. Russia.
The Sofia and Voskresensky Cathedral. Vologda. Russia
Ivolginsky дацан (a Buddhist temple). Buryatiya. Russia
The Kremlin. A museum «Tula samovars» Tula. Russia
The Kremlin. Ryazan. Russia
Krestovozdvizhensky church. The Ivanovo area. Russia
Monument to Athanasius Nikitin. Tver. Russia
Monument to Alexander Nevsky. Gorodec. Russia
Fountains. Petrodvorets. St.-Petersburg. UNESCO
The Solovetsky Islands. Russia.
The big Palace. Petrodvorets. Russia
Monument to Peter 1. Petrozavodsk. Russia
Valaam monastery. A chapel. Russia
Virgin forests of Kareliya. Russia.
To Trinity - Sergieva of Laurels in Sergiev Posad.
Tent church of Rise. Kolomna. Russia.
Nikolsky church. Suzdal. Russia.
Uspensky Cathedral. Vladimir. Russia.
To Trinity - Danilov a monastery.
Pereslavl - Zalessky. Russia.
Spassky monastery. Yaroslavl. Russia.
Volcanoes of Kamchatka. Russia.
Salekhard - a city on a polar circle. Russia
Ivolginsky дацан - a Buddhist temple. Buryatiya. Russia
Rise church. Velikiy Ustyug. Russia
Kyzyl - the center of Asia. Russia
Peter and Pavel's temple on the Prohorovsky field.
The Belgorod region. Russia
Pominalnaja chapel on the Prohorovsky field.
The Belgorod region. Russia
Monument on life Road. Ladoga lake. Russia
Astrakhan кремль. Russia
The house of Pavlova. Volgograd. Russia
Monument to civilians. Volgograd. Russia.
Monument to civilians. Volgograd. Russia

If you can't live here is doesn't mean that s*hit over here...

You just a BIG LOOSER ....))))))


1933 - Refusal of Poland to take part in the offered USSR "East pact". Poland and Germany have suggested the USSR to conclude such pact without France and Czechoslovakia but on such conditions the USSR has refused

In December, 1938 in the report of 2nd (prospecting) department of a general staff of the Army Polish it was in plain terms specified:

«The partition of Russia underlies the Polish policy in the east... Therefore our possible position will be reduced to the following formula: who will take part in section. Poland shouldn't remain passive during this remarkable historical moment. The problem consists in that it is beforehand good to be prepared physically and spiritually... The Overall objective - easing and defeat of Russia» («Z dziejow stosunkow polsko-radzieckich. Studia i materialy», T.III. Warszawa, 1968, S. 262, 287).

History / Why did Russia attack Poland in WW2? [178]


Academician A.M.Samsonov. The Second World War. М: the Science. 1990. 638 with.
D.M.proektor. Fascism: an aggression and destruction way. М: the Science. 1989. 584 with.
Z.Aldeber, J.Bender, I.Grusha, etc. History of Europe. 1996. 383 with. (Russian lane Histore de l'Europe, Hachette. 1992)
M.Pankratov. The English-ex-Soviet negotiations of 1939//the International life, 1989, № 8, with. 28-39.
Round the non-aggression pact (documents on the Soviet-German relations of 1939)//the International life, 1989, № 9, with. 90-123

The British ambassador in Finland: "Most likely, the winner will be not Hitler, and Stalin (in the future European war - a comment of recentury) and consequently he represents the greatest danger ... As there is a question how to cause a damage to Soviet Union, I suggest to put a maximum of efforts to reaching the consent with Japan which sudden attack will be pushed by her inveterate enmity to the Bolshevism". [The Origins of the Second World War. London-N.Y. 1971, p.270]


On January, 31st, 1919 ССРБ left structure of RSFSR, and her independence officially recognized the government of the Soviet Russia.

On February, 2nd, 1919 in Minsk I Vsebelorussky congress of Councils of workers, soldier's and Red Army the deputies, accepted Constitution ССРB has gathered on February, 3rd.

On February, 27th, 1919 ССРB has united from the Lithuanian Soviet Socialist Republic in the Litovsko-Belorussian Soviet Socialist Republic (abbr. Litbel), existed till August, 1919. Thus the earths of the east of Belarus were a part of RSFSR.

In the Soviet and modern Belorussian historiography on January, 1st 1919 it is considered date of first declaration BSSR.

The Polish occupation

In February, 1919 the Polish armies have intruded on territory of Belarus. On August, 8th the Polish armies have occupied Minsk which has been beaten off by Red Army only in July of next year [19].

By results of the Riga peace treaty of 1921 to Poland the territories of the Western Belarus which are to the east from Linii Kerzona on which the Belorussian population prevailed departed.

ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/История_Белоруссии

present in Belarus and Ukraine and that was just right.

Who said that was right, people who lived there?

History / WW2 - The other side. What USSR, also that the Polish government has made not to admit WW2 [45]


On April, 8th, 2010 became one of the most shameful days in contemporary history of Russia. Acting in Poland on the occasion of an anniversary of Katynsky tragedy, the prime minister of Russia Vladimir Putin named guilty of her heads of security service of that time and People's Commissariat of Internal Affairs, including Lavrentija Beriju, and also the political country leaders, accurately hinting at Joseph Stalin.

Here is another version of the others :

What is historical truth of that tragedy?

It is necessary to divide actually tragedy (that is execution by Germans of the Polish officers by summer-autumn of 1941) and the propaganda action organized by Joseph Goebbels in the spring of 1943. That it there was a propaganda action - any doubts be simple can't, enough look for dates: on April, 13th radio of Germany informs on Katynsky finds, and already definitive destruction of the Warsaw ghetto on April, 19th begins. Then so-called Volynsk slaughter - destruction by insurgents UPA(Ukrainian Anti-Soviet Army) from 60 to 200 thousand Poles in territory of the Western Ukraine begins also.

What it is necessary to make to cross out «the German version»?

It is necessary to open archives, first of all camp Vjazemlaga archive (in him was a little camp offices including near settlement Katyn in which, by the way, no Polish tombs are present - they are in a place with the name the Goat Mountains that near station Gnezdovo, nowadays Smolensk-commodity) in which till summer of 1941 contained Polish captured already as prisoners. At the moment in some documents from this office are already revealed, mainly - accounting reports and reports "upward" - and from these documents already unequivocally follows that: the first - camp near Smolensk were, the mode of the maintenance of convicts in them very essentially differed from all other ...

Actually, captured Polish officers in the winter of 1939-1940 contained in Kozelsk, Starobelske and Ostashkov in very concessionary terms - well fed, didn't force to work, every other day showed cinema. Once at them with a concert even local schoolboys acted. That is considered them more likely as «objects of re-education» and, most likely, would release at all, if not the Polish government in the exile, sitting in that time in the French city of Anzhere. This government after the USSR has officially transferred Vilensky area to Lithuania (it has occurred in the beginning of November, 1939) has declared the USSR war. And as by then representatives of People's Commissariat of Internal Affairs "have probed" moods Polish captured and have well understood that those still consider themselves on service of the Polish government also conclusions have been made unequivocal - to release anybody it is impossible... But also to feed captured for «it is simple so» - it is unprofitable. As a result the decision - to write out to captured Poles terms through Special Meeting was accepted.

That, by the way, execution excluded - execution powers at him have appeared only in November, 1941. Documents on preparation for consideration of "the Polish affairs» in Special Meeting has remained, by the way, much - and sentences within powers of this body - till 8 years of camps have remained even. Condemnation of captured Poles by Special Meeting is a real sin of the USSR; they were foreign citizens and prisoners of war. But, how Poles addressed with Soviet captured in 1920-1921, it, the right, a sin insignificant.

P.S. I don't know on 100 % that happens then, hard believe that Russian could so to make, but if and was - that is the BIG shame both for military men and for those who gave this order from above...


I think that when Germany have attacked on Poland and it became clear that Germany will grasp her all. The USSR wanted to remove borders far away from the country because Russia wasn't ready to be at war with Germany, but understood that war will be all the same....

To a regret historically Russia and Poland had bad relations, I hope that they become better....

But while Poland puts at itself the American rockets - against whom?

By: "Alexander Prozorov"

"In the mankind past not so it is a lot of moments which it is possible to name confidently defining the further history of the Earth. In the twentieth century this moment easily is called to within a minute. In a trice, the future victory of a civilization over a satanic host, the feather stroke under the significant document which has rescued millions of lives, to the whole people which have provided freedom which have become by the first step in a victory of Soviet Union over fascist Germany was strategically provided. This document - «the Pact between the USSR and Germany about non-aggression» from August, 23rd, 1939. Or, as him quite often name: «the Pact of Molotov-Ribbentrop».

The person poorly familiar with history, can be surprised: paternal I so highly appreciate this contract, I consider as his greatest diplomatic victory of the USSR in the history? After all by thirty ninth already many European countries had time to conclude just the same contract with Hitler? Such countries as Poland or England similar contracts special success don't name. To understand, in what break consists, it is necessary to get accustomed more attentively to conditions that has developed to the West from Russia in the thirties the twentieth century.

First of all, democratic Germany which has chosen in the heads of ardent nationalist Adolf Hitler promptly gained in strength. Hitler openly recognized that an ultimate goal of his aggression is acquisition of "vital space» in the east, physical destruction of Russia and Russian people. Up the time of pact signing Germany annexed Sudetes, has included Austria, Czechia and Moravia in Reich structure, actively was at war in Spain. Germany developed, rattled the sabre and collected round itself allies."


On the one hand, England and France demanded the military help from the USSR aggression for Poland mind. The USSR, as it is known, was ready to meet it under condition of reception of the corresponding help for itself from England and France. On the other hand, the same England and France there and then let out Poland which resolutely refused the military help from the USSR on a scene. Try to agree under these conditions about mutual aid when the help from the USSR appears in advance unnecessary and imposed.

Further. On the one hand, England and France guaranteed to Soviet Union the military help aggression in exchange for the corresponding help mind from the USSR. On the other hand, they arranged the help with such reservations about indirect aggression which could transform this help into fiction and allowed to them to shirk formally-legislative ground rendering assistance and to put the USSR in a condition of isolation in the face of an aggressor. Try to distinguish similar «the mutual aid pact» from the pact more or less disguised cheating.

Further. On the one hand, England and France underlined importance and gravity of negotiations about the mutual aid pact, demanding from the USSR the most serious relation to this business and the fastest permission of the questions connected with the pact. On the other hand, they showed an extreme sluggishness and absolutely frivolous relation to negotiations, charging this business to the minor persons who have been not invested by sufficient powers. It is enough to tell that military missions of England and France have arrived to Moscow without certain powers and without the right of signing of any military convention. It is more than that, military mission of England has arrived to Moscow in general without any mandate, and only on request of our military mission she, already before the break of negotiations, has presented the written powers. But also it were powers only the most uncertain character, that is not sound powers. These are internal contradictions of a position of England and France in negotiations about the USSR which has led to failure of negotiations.

Where a root of these contradictions in a position of England and France?

History / WW2 - The other side. What USSR, also that the Polish government has made not to admit WW2 [45]


Attention!
Video isn't recommended to viewing by the government of Poland to citizens of the country.
Seventy years ago, on August 23, 1939, the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany signed the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact. The Covetsko-German nonaggression pact from the August, 23rd, 1939, more known as «the Pact of Molotova Ribbentropa» (on surnames of the Ministers for Foreign Affairs who have signed him), till now causes serious disputes among historians and politicians.

Meanwhile, in the whole series of the international comments, political investigations and the analytical materials devoted to the 70 anniversary of this major historical document, the given theme was never considered in a historical retrospective show, without considering mentions of the Versailles contract of 6/28/1919

Confidential additions to contracts were at that time usual practice in the international relations. That has been concluded before the Second World War between the different states of a planet, the most part - till now with a signature stamp "Confidentially"...

No doubt, historical objectivity demands the account of all alignment of forces on international scene on the eve of the conclusion of "the Pact of Molotova Ribbentropa».

Hitler promised all all (in particular to Germany the whole world). In the pact of Molotova - Ribbentropa, about non-aggression of the USSR and Germany, Hitler wanted to exclude a war cloud on  two fronts in Europe, Stalin in turn aspired to return borders of the Russian empire.

Why is that?
Attention!
Video isn't recommended to viewing by the government of Poland to citizens of the country.
youtube.com/watch?v=TTp-LObhPLs&feature=player_embedded

History / WW2 - The other side. What USSR, also that the Polish government has made not to admit WW2 [45]


If you are Hate the commies (so am i) why is Poland did not help to the "white army" during the civil war in Russia, i can understand that half of Poland was under the Russian Empire before the revolution, then you've got the independence ok,

so the commies was good for you? if so why you refuse alliance with Soviets? afraid of Germans? I don't think so, Poland has much more soldiers (as a reserve man) the only think they was too late to mobilize... In that situation Poland was between two potential enemies and to be neutral was a suicide... I think Stalin was waiting for French and British reaction when Nazis invaded to your country and there was no help from the west to Poland at all? However French and British army if they attack at that time WW2 never occurred. Western countries needed Germany attack USSR, they never care about you and me, they just use you for there own benefit...

As a result of the Second World War of the USA became a super-state. As a result at currency-financial conference of the United Nations in Bretton-Vudse in 1944 under the pressure of the USA "the dollar" standard has been confirmed, that is the world currency system has been based on dollar domination. Others 43 countries - participants of the agreement - undertake to sustain fluctuations of the courses to US dollar within 1 %. Since then the US dollar, actually, replaces gold as the basic medium of exchange. Actually the USA have acquired the right uncontrollably to print money and to impose to their other world, buying up world riches for nothing. At that time - the dollar was the unique currency theoretically converted in gold (i.e. had - «the gold standard»). The dollar became base of the currency parities, a prevailing medium of exchange, currency of intervention and reserve actives. According to «the plan of Marshall» (post-war restoration of Europe), in destroyed Europe the stream of the American money has rushed. The economy of the European countries weakened by war couldn't resist to currency expansion of the USA. And as a part of gold and exchange currency reserves of the central banks the dollar took more and more a place - after all they as was considered then, always had a possibility to exchange the American currency on gold at the fixed price. After the Second World War in Europe the new order is established. The USA have earned on it the solid capital - gold reserves of the USA made more than half of world's reserves.

History / What do Poles owe to Russians? [193]


How about the Russians?

My Russian friend had a Polish friend, they lived together in Europe for 4 years when they have gone to Poland to her brother on wedding, he was held at the airport by 2 hours and interrogated as the spy, her relatives and parents have concerned him unfriendly, during wedding almost nobody talked to him, looked as at the enemy, funny that on tables there was a vodka "Boris Eltsyn", a year later my friend and the girl from Poland have broke up, here so, and you tell "friendly", it's not their fault that he is Russian?

History / What do Poles owe to Russians? [193]


It's not a pack of lies or dirty propaganda, seriously that what i've been told, you might not believe, but there is no reason no lie,

I wish very much that Poles and Russians can come to Poland or Russia and have good relationship... still there is some Nazis on both sides, also need more time to put the bad history in past... We need to start from some were....

What do you think lads that Russia should do?

History / What do Poles owe to Russians? [193]


It is not the same, Soviets never said that the Russians are chosen nation!

Just to add some your comrades photo's from that time from the Russian forum...

I, as well as you, can be not agree with opinion of the author, but it isn't the basis for transition to persons

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  By the way..Pay attention to the Polish soldiers - the weapon German,helmets(steel helmet)
  
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History / Pieces of Real Polish History [60]

OCTOBER REVOLUTION TO RUSSIA AND INDEPENDENCE OF POLAND

Let's address to the documents accepted in the first days of revolution, — to the Decree on peace from October, 26th (on November, 8th) 1917 and the Declaration of the rights of the people of Russia from November, 2nd (15), 1917. In the first certificate — in the general plan, and in the second — in a legislative order “the right of all people of Russia (including Polish) on free self-management more particularly was fixed up to branch and formation of the independent state”. It is necessary to underline unique character of the similar declaration: accurately formulated position about the right of each nation to the statehood, accepted by the higher legislative and executive powers of any country, at that time simply didn't exist.

Thus, already in the first days of the Russian revolution the legal base for formation of the independent Polish state has been created. As to other powers participating in world war their positions in the Polish question looked much weaker and lost in comparison with the aforementioned Decree and the Declaration.

The known Austro-German certificate from November, 5th, 1916 about the future Poland and her borders had the extremely uncertain and unessential character, at the best he provided an autonomy of the Polish earths which were as a part of Russia, but didn't concern the Polish territories which have departed to Germany and Austro-Hungary as a result of sections of Poland. France and Great Britain, truth, have already started to tend to a reconstruction of independent Poland, but to formulate the position on this question, moreover at high official level while abstained.

October revolution in Russia has objectively led to internationalization of the Polish question of that always was afraid and constantly imperial diplomacy tried to avoid. Similar internationalization, undoubtedly, has done good to idea of a reconstruction of the Polish state though the question on independence of Poland basically has already been solved by October revolution.

The impartial analysis shows that is necessary to reckon also with variety of other factors which have predetermined a birth of independent Poland. Except October revolution and the certificates accepted by her great value had defeat in war of powers — participants of sections of Poland — Germany, Austro-Hungary and, in a sense, Russia, and also the support rendered to Poland about parties Antanty and the USA. However the major factor was, undoubtedly, powerful aspiration of the most Polish people to a reconstruction of the state and presence in the country and behind her limits of the Polish political forces, ready to realize national expectations.

It is necessary to refer to one basic document which, in our opinion, also has served its purpose in legal formation of the Polish state. It is the decree of Council of National Commissioners of RSFSR from August, 29th, 1918 about refusal of contracts of Russia with Germany and Austro-Hungary about sections of Poland.Article 3 of this decree accepted still before formation of the Polish Republic in November, 1918, proclaimed:

All contracts and the certificates concluded by the government of the former Russian empire with the governments of Kingdom Prussian and Austro-Hungarian empire, concerning sections of Poland, in view of their contradiction to a principle of self-determination of the nations and revolutionary sense of justice of the Russian people which have recognized behind the Polish people an inalienable law to independence and unity, — are cancelled by the present irrevocably.

However the further succession of events by tritely such way that Russia owing to the developed circumstances has appeared removed from active participation in the Polish affairs: as a result of signing with Germany the Brest world, civil war, foreign military intervention, economic and diplomatic blockade.

Despite it, it is necessary to note variety of steps on the Polish affairs, undertaken by the Soviet government in the first year of the existence which great value for Poland was showed later, in performance of decisions of the Riga peace treaty of 1921.

In the conditions of the most complicated internal political and country world situation it is created the National commissariat on affairs of the Polish nationality from J.Leshchinsky in head (the decree from November, 28th (on December, 11th) 1917), vigorous measures under the account and preservation of the Polish cultural values which have appeared for the various reasons in territory of Russia, mainly as a result of military operations are taken. The majority of the documents accepted in that time on this point in question are published in known collections. We will be limited to reduction of the text of the basic document — the decree from January, 17th (30), 1918 in which the valid relation of the new power of Russia to the Polish people first of all was showed.

The decree
About protection of subjects of olden time and art,
Belonging to the Polish people

In view of that in the western and northwest provinces of the Russian Republic, in many cities and manors of persons of the Polish nationality there are the subjects having exclusive value for the Polish people, and the majority of these subjects has been taken out from Poland during deviation of Russian armies and earlier, the Council of National Commissioners for returning of these subjects perfectly safe to all Polish people — decides and for a management of subject revolutionary powers declares the following:

1. Subjects of olden time and art, library, archives, pictures and in general museum subjects where they were, accepted as the national property of the Polish people under protection of the power of the Working and Country Government in the name of the Commissariat on the Polish Affairs and Societies охранения antiquities before transfer to their Polish national museums.

2. About acceptance under protection of the above-named subjects statements, and the certificate about voluntary transfer to the Polish museums of the subjects which are in the Polish manors are drawn up, the owner of manor or him on that authorized person signs with own hand. The certificate is made in duplicate: one of them is stored in the Polish Commissariat at the Council of National Commissioners, the second — in Petrograd Department of the Polish Society охранения antiquities — the official representative in Russia Polish art and historical societies.

3. Except certificates the exact inventory of transferred subjects in 4 copies is made, and one copy remains at the owner, another — in the Commissariat on the Polish Affairs, the third — in a regional commissariat on protection of ancient monuments or in bureau of the nearest executive office of the union of military men of Poles, the fourth — in Society Board охранения antiquities in Petrograd.

4. For drawing up of certificates and inventories and for realization of the real decree, and equally control over observance of that on places, the Polish Commissariat appoints special regional commissioners with powers of Commissioners of the Working and Country Government.

5. All mentioned organizations and persons work in contact to local revolutionary powers in the name of local Councils of Soldier's, Working and Country Deputies by which it is made a duty to render full assistance in protection on places and transportations of the Polish cultural values.

The chairman of the council of National Commissioners
Вл. Ulyanov (Lenin)
The national Commissioner on Education
A. V.Lunacharsky
The commissioner on the Polish National Affairs
J.Leschinsky
Operating affairs of Council of National Commissioners
V.Bonch-Bruevich*

History / Pieces of Real Polish History [60]


You Hate the Russians and Russia? Anything about Russia from you - is sh*it and junk....

All the documents i posted was as they are... Translation program is not perfect i know, my English is not that great as your guys, so i just do my best as a Russian...