Work / Polish Residency Cards. Is there a Permanent ID card for Foreigners? [37]

thanks mafketis - yes, I'm all too aware of the inconsistencies between bureaux. It's more a general enquiry as to whether this permanent residency card still exists, and if anyone has recently applied for it.

Specifically, I'm Engish (therefore EU) and working in Warsaw.

Work / Polish Residency Cards. Is there a Permanent ID card for Foreigners? [37]

delphi - the issue here is that when this card runs out, I won't really have any effective ID in Poland other than my passport, which I'm not too keen to carry around with me on a daily basis. I'd imagine it will be almost impossible to do any banking, bureaucracy or even post office pick-ups without an ID card here, let alone something involving the law.

Work / Polish Residency Cards. Is there a Permanent ID card for Foreigners? [37]

I renewed my passport last month and at no point was I asked for fingerprints, and I don't believe I've ever given them to any agency either. So no, the new ones don't store it.

I agree with the sentiment on Embassy fees though. Having a stony-faced old bint ignore me for 20 minutes at a desk, ignore all the extra papers I'd been told I needed, and then charge me over 120quid for the privilege of coming back in two weeks and being ignored again, really makes me patriotic.

Merged thread:
Residence Card

Both my old-school EU residency card, and my Zameldowane Czasowego have expired, and I'm having a nightmare trying to find out how to renew them.

I went to the local Ratusz for a 'zameldowac sie', and I was told I could only do so for three months, even though I'm the owner of the flat. This is because I don't have a Polish ID card. Apparently, this is to give me some time to GET an ID card.

Then I went to the Office for Foreigners (Warsaw, ul. Dluga) and was told that EU citizens can't have an ID card of any type; they're not issued any more.

I'm not queuing every three months to re-register myself in an apartment I've owned for half a decade; is there any solution to this? Is there such a thing as an ID card for EU residents?

Love / Polish girlfriend going back to Poland if I dont buy engagment ring [85]

of course this ultimatum isn't about the physical ring itself but the promise of marriage; we might be cynical but there aren't THAT many gold-diggers in Poland who would wait 2 years to demand an Elizabeth Duke special (someone mentioned Argos.)

But this odd social pressure to get married is something that, as a man trying to have a relationship with your average Polka, you will have to either fight stolidly against or give in to at some point. I'll die fighting, but you might have a less negative attitude towards marriage than I do. If she's worth it, give her what she wants to feel secure. If she's not, let her go and find someone else so that she can find her own doormat Polish husband to settle down and abuse for the rest of her life.

Law / Motorcycle Polish drivers license? [37]

And I'm looking at getting this in Warsaw, if anyone has any experience in the matter.

Only info I have for Varsovians is that it's better to go out of town to take the actual test, as the queue in Warsaw can be well over a month to get the actual test, which you can't sign up for without completing all your lesson hours.

News / New cross war in Warsaw [530]

The President of Poland is a secular office. Poles may justify their beliefs (and their incomprehensible hypocrisies) with a shrug and the phrase "Poland is a Catholic country," but to erect one religious symbol would mean having to put up a Star of David too (were there any Poles of Jewish origin on the plane? I'm not sure, but there are certainly still Jews in Poland.) Next thing you know, the square in front of the Palace will become a forest of religious symbols as every faith demands recognition, and that won't please the old berety much either, and then there'll be even more riots.

The religious have already got an enormous cross at Plac Pilsudski for public displays of faith; it's common for the Old Town to be shut down whenever the big churches hold a service (blocking Krakowskie Przedmieskie); and there's that lovely big Temple of Divine Providence being funded from the state in Wilanow. Demanding a cross outside the Presidential Palace, and for such reasons, is not appropriate.

News / New cross war in Warsaw [530]


I'm trying to explain kondzior's confusion about "public representative space should be free from any religious symbols". I'm well aware of why the political parties are handling this issue the way they are (or aren't.)

News / New cross war in Warsaw [530]


Haven't you confused "survived" with "caused"? Except for the last one, which I was think was the fault of the 5th Dimension.

UK, Ireland / What's the rule on 'the UK' but just 'GB'? [60]

I'm surprised there's confusion over this. If we look at the list presented:

The Soviet Union, The United States, The Czech Republic, The United Kingdom, Great Britain

can you spot the odd one out? One of these is not a country.

If the name you are using contains a political state word (Union, State, Republic, Kingdom) then we need the definite article. Attaching "The" really doesn't have anything to do with the country being some sort of plural as a political entity. If it's a group of islands then sure (The Bahamas, the Maldives, The Canaries) but we're referring to the geographical idea of a group, not the political one; the same way we talk about groups of mountains (The Alps, The Tatry) but not individual ones (Mont Blanc, Kasprowy Wierch.)

And Great Britain is NOT a country. It is a geographic land mass, not a political one, which contains three countries that make up a substantial portion of the political entity, The United Kingdom. The confusion comes from the car sticker 'GB', which makes people think that Britain is a country, like PL and DE do, but Northern Ireland have their own symbol, 'NI', so that the Irish know which particular car to attach their bombs to*.

The use of "-lands" in the name of the country (as opposed to just -land) is the background behind this idea of "plural countries", and that's why we have The Netherlands. And there are other countries that still defy sound explanation (The Gambia and The Congo are just two), but The Ukraine, once it gained its independence, cleaned up its ungrammatical international reputation, and politely asked to be called Ukraine. The End.

*this is a joke. A tasteless one, but a joke nonetheless.

News / New cross war in Warsaw [530]


If this is a criticism of getting drunk in general as morally corrupt, then I ask you find me a morally pure person in Poland.

If this is a claim that going to Mass makes you morally pure, then please be aware that the RCC does not hold the monopoly on morality.

If this is something to do with Sunday being special, not all of us agree that our morals can change depending on the day of the week.

UK, Ireland / What's the rule on 'the UK' but just 'GB'? [60]

I see your point, the trouble in my explanation comes to the definition of "country." The Soviet Union was a political state, as is The United Kingdom. Russia is a country, as are Wales and Scotland, unfortunately.* But what's the difference between a country and a political state?

On the international political arena, such as The United Nations (there's another one) or NATO, you'll never see anyone sitting at a desk marked "Great Britain." That's my point about what is and isn't a country. The Olympics don't count.

* another joke.

UK, Ireland / What's the rule on 'the UK' but just 'GB'? [60]

So how about this definition:

Any entity with a political state word in the title (Kingdom, State, Union, Republic) requires The.

That also explains The European Union* too, which definitely isn't a country

*another joke

News / New cross war in Warsaw [530]

I'm wondering what happened to this morning's posts (including my own.) Where they mod-edited? Did this discussion finally go too far?

Life / What are the things which cause culture shock in Poland? [164]

Some of the starkest things for me in terms of culture shock, and that remind me I'm a foreigner even after six years here, are the attitudes towards Religion and Patriotism.

The Church and the Nation are absolutely above any form of criticism; a tiny throwaway comment will spark an enormous debate and lengthy lecture on Polish history and the role of the Church. I can understand why Poles are so defensive of these things;* they've told me why, thousands of times, but the vigour with which they well defend these establishments can be scary at times.

Coming from England, where no institution is beyond criticism, and where bad taste humour has become an artform (check the sickipedia website, if you like), these rigid social taboos still amaze me. Sometimes it's charming (I wish the English could feel genuine pride for their nation, rather than that awful mix of sport-based arrogance and colonial aloofness), other times its infuriating, but this undying attitude of Polska Polska still has the power to shock me.

The other thing I still don't get is to what enormous lengths the women will go to to look beautiful, so that they can hang on the arm of a Polish man with his shaved head, Nike t-shirt, shorts, white socks and black trainers.

* a semi-colon on a forum; who'd have thought it.

News / Heavy storm / tornados cause chaos and flooding in Poland [23]

I went out for a walk in this last night; I'll admit, it was absolutely tipping it down, and the sky was electric - never a space of more than 2 seconds without a lightning flash, so as a storm it was pretty intense.

Based on the way the water was overflowing from the gutters onto the pavement, and the way the manholes were doing this: ...
then I could believe that some underground stations got flooded, and plenty of cars' engines stopped working.

News / New cross war in Warsaw [530]


Are you suggesting Kazik is the new messiah?

News / New cross war in Warsaw [530]


This is a big feature of almost any nation in the world. However, being in a democracy demands that you occasionally swallow the bitter pill because the majority want something you don't. It also means that you don't stamp your foot and cry like a little child when you don't get what you want.

I understand the older generation's feelings of alienation, but violent protest is never a solution; you'd have thought the last 200 years would have taught Poles that.

News / New cross war in Warsaw [530]

Is there another protest tonight? For whom? Cross-supporters, or cross-removers?

Law / Car plate numbers in Warsaw [7]

I've registered cars at three addresses in Warsaw (Srodmiescie, Bemowo and Wola) and had to go to Pl. Starynkiewicz every time. The most recent time, the woman in Wola Ratusz told me it was because I had Zameldowanie Czasowego* limited to 5 years, and that was why. Once I have permanent Zameldowanie I can have Wola plates, not these WY... ones.

I don't get stopped by the police often, but when I do they're usually very friendly and will reduce the fine if you teach them a few words in English.

*I'm sure I've made a grammar mistake here, please correct me

News / New cross war in Warsaw [530]


Apathy, laziness, the desire for a quick and simple answer and the need to blame someone else. These four things explain most people's actions, irregardless of topic.

But if you tell me what labels you're talking about, then maybe I can provide a deeper answer.

Language / What do you like in Polish language? [70]

Polish is the fifth language I've tried to learn, and I'm finding it the least enjoyable. The concept of cases I can understand, but the level of redundancy (making every single adjective agree with the gender, case and plurality of the noun, for example) a real chore. It's also crushing to make a tiny difference in pronunciation between "i", "e" and "y", and then have Poles look at you with blank faces and then a "bardzo nie rozumiem".

On the plus side, I found in Tesco's last night a little book in the "Male Tablice" series for gymnasium/high school students; "Male Tablice: Jezyk Polski" is an 80-page compendium of grammar tables. It's in Polish, but to have a quick reference book with, it seems, EVERYTHING in it, for 7 zlotys, is too good to miss.

Life / Polish people and Politeness [84]

I find the initial post of this thread amusing, to say the least. One of the biggest culture shocks of moving here was how cold and distant people are in their day to day life. At first I put this down to moving from an English village to a foreign city, but the more I live here the more obvious it is.

The door opening is one thing; cashiers and counter staff similarly (I still experience the opening part of "Miś" on a daily basis: .... As for the seats on trams; I've seen an old man stand up to give his seat for an older woman before any of the pretty young women in business suits even acknowledged the presence of that babcia. They develop a fixed-jaw glassy-eyed stare out the window that says "don't even think about it." I know it's charming to think of women as the fairer sex, but in Poland this isn't fairness, this is just rudeness.

I've found Poles in public to have one of the most self-centred attitudes imaginable; thoughtless, impolite to the point of insulting, and completely unwilling to help others. Which is really odd, because when among friends or family they're the most hospitable, personable and generous hosts I've ever encountered. I still can't balance this duality in my head.

Whenever I stop and help someone with a broken car (every time; I know my way round an engine) the poor stranded person comments that the only person who stopped to see if they were alright was a foreigner. Sure, the hazard lights and smoking radiator might be an elaborate trick to steal my car, but it's worth checking just in case, isn't it?

Life / Why Aren't The Shops in Poland Open on Sundays? [82]

Shops don't HAVE to open for you, and even if there wasn't a law forcing them to close, many would still be shut; give a Pole the chance to take a day off and they will do, gladly (and fair play to them for it, too. There's no point working yourself into an early grave.)

Poles still haven't learned any respect for capitalism; take a simple walk around town during July or August and see how many shops are closed for vacations. Shutting your business for two weeks so that you can sit on the Polish coast? Fine, just don't expect my custom when you come back; I'll find a shop that wants to earn my money from me.

From the religious aspect, many people do, deep down, find the idea of working on a Sunday a sin; from another angle, there are many who need to travel back to their village at weekends, and need that Sunday to do so; if shops were allowed to open on Sunday then bosses would demand of their stuff at least one Sunday shift a month, and many would find that intolerable.

There was a period (Easter-Smolensk crash-May Day) when the biggest shopping malls in Warsaw were closed for four weekends in six; this was unbelievable, absolutely incredible for me.

Life / Why Aren't The Shops in Poland Open on Sundays? [82]


a) Poles, whether they behave as such or not, are mostly Catholic. That's the biggest group. The biggest group in a democracy gets what it wants.

b) In a democracy you're free to choose who you want your lawmakers to be. People here keep voting for Catholics; in fact, for some strange reason, it seems you NEED to be Catholic to get the job.

So as far as democracy is concerned, everything's fine. But, if SeanBM is right and there's no law* forcing them to close, the financial democracy known as capitalism means that the first shop that opens on these days will profit, and all the others will either have to change their ways, or go out of business. It's just that no-one wants to be first.

As for planning your shopping: I work during the week, often into the evening. Local shops don't even open until 10am on weekdays, and that's just what the sign says; I've had to stand waiting outside long past 10am until the slovenly wench who's supposed to serve me pet food and muesli bothers to unlock the front door. Poles won't learn how silly this attitude is until the big 24-hour supermarkets have forced small shops out of business, like they're doing in England, and then it'll be too late. I like my local store with its odd selection of cakes and unpasteurised beer, but if they can't be bothered to pay a student 6zl an hour to man the tills in the morning, or evening, or Sundays, I really can't have any sympathy for them.

*the actual law is about National holidays, not Sundays, right?

Life / Polish people and Politeness [84]


That's very charming of you to say so, even though I had no idea who he is until half an hour ago.

Life / Polish people and Politeness [84]

To balance this, certainly in the commercial sector, I'd rather have the dour Polish attitude of "Co?" at the till than the cheery chirpy and utterly artificial American model of "have a nice day y'all" (which I don't quite believe anyone is really capable of saying, at least not without a lobotomy.)

Poles are generally underpaid, they're not afraid of hard work if they can see the benefit of it, and all they want is to do the minimum that allows them to sit in a chair on their dzialka in the sunshine, for as long as possible. All this modern stuff of trams and offices and meetings might facilitate this wonderful aspiration, but that doesn't mean they have to like it. At least this isn't rat-race inspired rudeness, where we don't have time to say "thank you" because we have to go back to earning money for that new iPod or BMW now now now buy buy buy.

I was reading Kapuszczynski's "Imperium", where he travels around the post-Soviet states in the early '90s, and he experiences this in a small hotel in Yakutsk:

"And now comes our turn to step up to the barmaid. The scene consists of a minimum of words and has a very businesslike character. The barmaid looks at the guest and remains silent - this means that she is waiting for the order. There is no "Good morning" here or "How are you" - the guest gets straight to the point. He says: a glass of cream, an egg, farmer cheese, cucumber, bread.

He does not say thank you; he does not say anything at all superfluous. The barmaid hands him the food, tales the money. Also without a word. She closes the cash register and looks at the next guest."

This, in a small mining town in the Arctic circle, I can comprehend. But how familiar do these words sound to you lot, living in Poland?

Life / Why Aren't The Shops in Poland Open on Sundays? [82]

Neil, there's a small shop on ul Leszno, corner with Okopowa if you're driving towards Wola Park. That place was open last time I needed essentials on one of these Workshy Weekends. I can almost guarantee that all the big shopping centres will be closed.

Life / Polish people and Politeness [84]

enkidu, those are some very good explanations and I appreciate them. The only point I can comment on is that Kapuszczynski quote: if it had been written by any other tourist, I can see why it would look strange and would be printed in a book, but if a Polish journalist makes that observation about Russians, can he not see it in his own culture too? Was he trying to say how awful it is, or how Poles and Russians share some cultural features? I don't know.

Maybe I'm looking too deeply at it, but when reading it the first time I thought "Ryszard K., you bloody hypocrite!"

I do admire Poles' honesty in feelings ("you are wrong, that is stupid, you're an idiot"); this is much better than the English polite-to-their-face, rude-to-their-back approach.