History / Warsaw Uprising - The Forgotten Soldiers [117]


Point is Poland could have avoided it!

A bit more common sense and real politik would had gone along way...


Not for Germans! ;)


Again, Poland could have avoided it, become another Czechoslovakia, Baltics or even France.
They all survived the Nazis quite well (and many other countries too).

Life / Do Polish People steal a lot? [330]


Germany was seen as the most advanced, most modern country at that time :)
We can't help it! ;)


You mean a concentration camp commander? Of course...they tried to effective squeezing out the dead Jews as much as they could.

But you asked about the homes of said dead Jews, didn't you?


There are always people who have food to get a valuable vase/picture for cheap money or just a slice of bread.
Those times were high times for these peoples...

You really should study history more!


Yeah...that happened.

But I doubt the majority of empty jewish homes in Poland were littered with valuable vases or paintings. The majority of Jews weren't exactly rich either...

Life / Do Polish People steal a lot? [330]


I doubt you will find movie footage showing looting Red Army soldiers...sorry...
Free speech and independent media wasn't their forte :(


Why not?
If people are hungry they try to sell what they can find...
The german officers for sure hadn't this motivation!

Life / Do Polish People steal a lot? [330]


I've heard the russian troops even stole the toilets out of the german houses because they didn't had any at home.

You know...Germany wasn't exactly a third world backyard hellhole at that time.
There wasn't much german soldiers could be impressed with as they invaded the East, seriously.
I think most of the missing stuff has gone the Moscow direction....they were notorious for stealing just EVERYTHING what wasn't nailed down (and they tried even the nailed stuff), they were really dirt poor and came from a dirt poor country.

History / Warsaw Uprising - The Forgotten Soldiers [117]


Every other way speaks more of pathetic white washing and clouding it as romantic bravery to make the people who suffered so much feel better, sorry.



Oh please...do you want to discuss or playing petty games!


I'm justifying nothing...and it wouldn't change one jota!
Poland did behave as greedy and agressive the moment it could as most other countries did.
Such were the times in Europe...and that was not a new surprise but Europe's way for Millennia. No need to put the "good" against "evil" labels on.

Poland were given bad cards and they did everything wrong with them.


Do you think Poland staying neutral would had changed that outcome? I don't.
But Poland would had suffered alot less losses, that's for sure!


Might be interesting for the judgement about who was "more evil"...

Life / Do Polish People steal a lot? [330]


That's the reason they couldn't fight the Russians....they had their hands full with sofas, carpets and wrist watches!

History / Warsaw Uprising - The Forgotten Soldiers [117]


It wasn't about ideologies...nobody asked Poles to become Nazis...again, it was about
Real Politik and doing the best with the cards given. That is the DUTY of every voted politician, but the polish ones failed totally. They lost not only their freedom, they left their country open to destruction and to become the killing fields of BOTH evils, being opressed and occupied for the next half century!

NOTHING to be proud of !


Moralizing is always repulsive if it is used with hindsight to judge people.
You never had to walk in their boots a minute so stop pretending. You will never know
what you would have felt or done.


Poland WAS a free country till '39. Acting like a yapping chihuahua against BOTH, Russia AND Germany did not help them to stay that way.
Not to mention that Poland also had no qualms to take part in the dismembering of Czechoslovakia as it was still free.


Look at Czechoslovakia...they don't speak German nor are they dead last time I looked.


Russian life was hell BEFORE Hitler invaded and it stayed hell after the war was over thanks to Stalin.
For me the only difference between both is that Stalin was content to make the life hell for people in his empire and under his whip whereas most Germans could count on a quite good life under Hitler who was more concentrated on making non-aryan people's lifes hell.


It's a jewish line of argumentation...putting their folks in the forefront...preferring Stalinism and the Russians just because more Jews were in the russian ranks and more part of the killing than of the killed...so excuse me!

History / Warsaw Uprising - The Forgotten Soldiers [117]


Yeah...Stalins victims will be glad to know that they were starved to death, worked to death, shot, clubbed down, frozen etc...by a not so evil "evil".


It's totally irrelevant...


Isn't it pathetic that you need to do that in the first place?


So you really think to rescue some Jews was all the mass destruction and millions of dead non-jewish Poles worth?
Oh...and by the way...they couldn't help the Jews anyhow in the end as Hitler invaded.
They might have had have a better shot for caring for their Jews if Poland and Germany
had some kind of understanding and Germans didn't came as enemies.
But then...Jews were not the foremost important thought on polish politicians minds.


Hitler made it up as he did go along...many Slavs were faithfull allies and even soldiers in the Wehrmacht.
Had Poland been more agreeable Poles had been touted as everything else but "sub-humans".


I think you are jewish!

History / Warsaw Uprising - The Forgotten Soldiers [117]


Well...you allied yourself with a monster that killed many more peoples than Hitler ever could.
You had no such qualms with "evilness" then...

Spare me your moralizing! But if it helps to make all that destruction and loss bearable for you don't let me stop you!


First they are neither forgotten and second it was about "who deserved what" as I posted.


Not if you imply the coming holocaust had ANYTHING to do with the decison of the Poles or the Germans or anybody else.
Hell, even as the concentration camps and the gas chambers were already known about nobody cared much for the Jews...

To use the jewish card is totally modern hindsight argumenting.

If you ask me Poland was in Hitler's mind only important as gathering place for the german army preparing to fight Stalin. He even would had sold the claims for Danzig for Polish neutrality and passive support.

He wanted Poland and he got it, so or so...

News / Pole loses language discrimination case in Germany; Scandalous! [97]


If he can help it....

History / Warsaw Uprising - The Forgotten Soldiers [117]

Well, than you are either in the wrong thread or changed the topic on your own behalf without telling anybody.

The discussion was about Poland in the build up to the war NOT about what YOU today think!

History / Warsaw Uprising - The Forgotten Soldiers [117]


Be real Paulina...at that time NOBODY gave a flying f'uck about Jews.
The Einsatzgruppen found always enthusiastic helpers everywhere.

So stop making the Poland decision a jewish one...
I hope you didn't forget that Poland had in the thirties similiar anti-jewish laws as Germany had!
So spare us your pro-jewish tears. Jews and their fate had so not been in the mind of the Poles at that time.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Poland#Growing_anti-Semitism

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghetto_benches

News / Poland and Kresy being reunited? [162]


What a uniquely messy place our lands are...:)

We should really stop going after each others throats again and again! Our peoples and histories are much to intertwined for that...it makes no sense any longer!

News / Poland and Kresy being reunited? [162]


*runs to make a fat red cross in calendar*

:)

History / Warsaw Uprising - The Forgotten Soldiers [117]


I think Poland should had negotiated with Germany and made concessions.


An easy way out for you to say...Do you know the picture of Hitler
at the funeral of your Pilsudski?
Better agreements for Poland had been possible but instead how one
polish general liked to brag instead: "We will have war with Germany if she wants to or not!"
and the famous: "In one week in Berlin!"


See above...easy way out...


Who is talking about "friends"...Nations don't have friends, but shared goals and interests.
Had England or France been friends as they left you dangling???
It was about goals and negotiations and especially REAL POLITIK!
Acknowledging Poland's position between a rock and a hard place...but Polish politicians did choose the most stupid way to behave.
Chest thumping showing the finger to both, Stalin AND Hitler, and naively trusting far away London and Paris!

You may call that bravery, but most others see that as stupidity! And you paid the price...

History / Warsaw Uprising - The Forgotten Soldiers [117]


At least we vented our frustrations against Poland and France...now that was a revenge! :)
But then...we somehow lost the plot! :(

Not good...not good at all...but hindsight is a luxury people never have beforehand.


The West Germans at least had a very generous and nice Master...they did best out of this situation. Molly-coddled and courted as an important ally at that. *shrugs*

They don't complain!

News / Poland and Kresy being reunited? [162]


WTF???

Everybody knows it was german!!!

;)

News / Poland and Kresy being reunited? [162]


Nah...I don't feel any kinship or loss...Russia can keep this garbage dump it became, nothing prussian about it anymore!


Germans exist there for millennia already...and before there was a German state there was PRUSSIA...for centuries!


So stop whining when YOUR master (and ally) did rearrange your borders the same way.
After all they rescued you in the first place!


Well...the Ukrainians have some things to say about polish reign their self, and that's not nice!
Look in the mirror!


Nah...we just want a peacy neighbourhood, full of prospering people with enough money to buy our stuff! :)
We have no meaningful borders whatsoever anymore...

News / Pole loses language discrimination case in Germany; Scandalous! [97]


He opened this thread ;)

History / Warsaw Uprising - The Forgotten Soldiers [117]

I'm not a Pole...ask yourself what would had been better.

The german grievances about Silesia, Danzig, a corridor had been real and not unreasonable.
You should have negotiated.
A common enemy was stalinist Russia. There had been other, more agreeable, smarter and even neutral countries who came out of that WWII desaster nearly unscathed.

In the end you were forced to ally with another monster who invaded you first together with the other monster and who kept you afterwards under your thumb for 50+ more years as the Hitler nightmare was over after '45.

History / Warsaw Uprising - The Forgotten Soldiers [117]


Sure they did...Hitler had been open for negotiating about Danzig and the corridor...even for an alliance against Stalin...
It was the Poles who preferred their far away buddies in Paris and London..fully trusting them to rescue their chestnuts out of the fire if pushes came to shove.

Otherwise Polish bragging and deliberately p*issing of their mighty neighbours and even demanding more german lands as the Treaty of Versailles already granted you can't be explained. YOU ASKED FOR AN ARSE KICK!

News / Poland and Kresy being reunited? [162]


As did Germans (my family) had in what is now Poland....


Silesia and East Prussia the same...

Give it back first, then we might look the other way when you in turn go for the Ukraine! ;)

But face it man, you can't go seriously planning a retaking of Lwow without opening the can of worms that Silesia is! You surely don't want that.

If you really think you can reshape the facts of today's Europe and not be the same way open to other sharks yourself you are seriously mistaken...what's good for the goose...

News / Pole loses language discrimination case in Germany; Scandalous! [97]


You are crazy...you don't count! ;)


Nah...Serbs can't wait to be assimilated by the germanic EU! :)


Before or after they were Germanized by this mysterious Germans who themselves were proto-Slavs before they were germanized by these mysterious Germans who themselves were....and so on, and so on, and so on.

News / Pole loses language discrimination case in Germany; Scandalous! [97]

;)

News / Pole loses language discrimination case in Germany; Scandalous! [97]

Or let's have them weapons...they can later watch the cam corder how he shot the children.

News / Pole loses language discrimination case in Germany; Scandalous! [97]

The main responsibility of the Jugendamt is the welfare of the child, period!

If the father seems to see the language question more important than to be able to embrace his children then they are fully right to be suspicious!

Especially as there is NO language problem as the father AND the children are fluent in german..

News / Poland - the least liked German neighbour. [210]


Heh:)

And there is not one thing you can do against us this time! Ha! :):):):)

News / Pole loses language discrimination case in Germany; Scandalous! [97]


Well....as childrens are concerned any doubts and suspicions should be acted upon...
Better wronging the father than letting the children getting hurt.


That's all there is! The short and fitting summary to a difficult affair...better than crying "racism" again!

period

News / Poland and Kresy being reunited? [162]

...or just not informed enough! Sorry! :(

News / Poland and Kresy being reunited? [162]


I'm not quite sure...thing is Ukraine seems to be split into a pro-russian East and a pro-western West...maybe the Ukrainians have to make up their minds which way they want to go as a people before.

Maybe there will be a secession even...