History / Polish Officer in NATO, Col. Ryszard Kukliński. [145]


You do realise this is a discussion forum?


A question asked but avoided. It seems you think the idea of treason depends on the politics of the countries involved.


The what?

If anything, the 'memorial' is most likely to have been defaced by army veterans.

UK, Ireland / Common pitfalls for Poles learning English [187]


Yes they can!


This is quite common.

USA, Canada / Poles and American Poles. What do you think about those two groups and their interactions. [85]


Remember Poland isn't just an ethnic homeland - it's a large European country which attracts immigrants from elsewhere in Europe. People who have settled here and are qualified and entitled to say how people feel.


You should. It is a land of surprises!

Life / Supermarket culture rules in Poland? [18]


If you're near Arkadia, on ul. Burakowska, just behind Rondo Babka/Radoslawa there's a great bakery. They have a window at the entrance selling hot bread and cakes 24 hours.

Travel / Hostels in Poland (Oki Doki, Flamingo, Yellow)? [8]

Gdansk: The university residences in Wrzeszcz
Warsaw: Ditto, on ul. Zwirki i Wigury
Poznan: The Music Academy Hostel

All vacation time only. The Music Academy Hostel in Poznan is in an Eighteenth Century building just off the Stary Rynek.

And:

Katowice: Hotel Korty. It's some rooms to let at the Tennis Club. Up the hill at the back of the station in that nice Art Deco 30's district. Shared bathrooms, but modernised rooms with wi-fi etc and only about 40zl per night.

Warsaw: The Botel (a floating hostel on the river between Poniatowski and Swietokrzyszki Bridges) is 85zl for a single cabin.They have doubles and triples too. Annoying bathrooms, but very cheap for Warsaw. April to November only. Amazing location.

There are a couple of decent and cheap places in Lodz too, but the better of the two is always booked up.

History / Polish Officer in NATO, Col. Ryszard Kukliński. [145]

Read your post carefully. Pure casuistry and evasion. A lovely example of that is when you try to pretend that a soldier can choose his oath by looking up the names of various wartime volunteer detachments.

Citing a committed pacifist (which Colonel Kuklinski was not) is just a distraction.

Kuklinski was a senior officer in his country's army. One oath to serve. He betrayed that country and was tried and sentenced for his crimes. That sentence outlived the PRL

I wonder if you think Kim Philby was justified in doing the same in the name of ideology?

History / Polish Officer in NATO, Col. Ryszard Kukliński. [145]


You aren't really making any arguments. You're just trying to duck the issue with half-truths and evasion.


Not unusual for a military oath - unless you know of a country that lets its soldiers pick and choose.


He was a colonel, you know.


So the oath a defendant or witness in court has to take has "no moral or ethical value" because they are forced to take it?


See above, though it's worth repeating, he was an Officer, not an enlisted man.


Almost every officer (and there were many thousands) except him treated it with dignity and didn't break it by betraying his country.

History / Polish Officer in NATO, Col. Ryszard Kukliński. [145]

No. He broke his oath and was a traitor. Maybe he had a crisis of conscience, maybe there were less noble reasons but he did it all the same. I He may have thought he was doing the right thing, as Bradley Manning did, but the act of treason is still the same.

I wonder if those who were so quick to defend Kuklinski feel the same about Kim Philby.......

Love / More loveless sex of Poles living in the regained lands [73]

It wasn't made under duress. The guy was a colonel. The marriage vow however can be dissolved if required without a strain on one's character.

Nor is sexual love without a certificate from the Town Hall unusual, disreputable or illegal in Poland.

Love / More loveless sex of Poles living in the regained lands [73]


Odd that you condemn it here but praise it in another thread.

History / Polish Officer in NATO, Col. Ryszard Kukliński. [145]


No. The only 'basking' is in wrong and right. Poland was neither Nazi Germany (why do denizens of the internet always mention that when they pick an argument and are losing it?) nor the Soviet Union. And Kuklinski gave his country's secrets to her enemies. This did not go unrewarded by them..

History / Polish Officer in NATO, Col. Ryszard Kukliński. [145]


Only the ones who end up in a Court Martial.


Like Bradley Manning?


An oath is simple. Keep it or break your word of honour.

History / Polish Officer in NATO, Col. Ryszard Kukliński. [145]


Poles.


His oath wasn't illegal, nor were any orders he received and his country wasn't occupied. Kuklinski was a traitor no matter how you try to dress up his treason.

Love / More loveless sex of Poles living in the regained lands [73]


So you'd force your interpretation of Catholicism down people's throats?


Not according to several of your posts in this thread.

In fact you seem to be suggesting that certain regions of Poland are very far from that indeed.

Love / More loveless sex of Poles living in the regained lands [73]


Illicit under what set of rules? Not the law of Poland.

Love / More loveless sex of Poles living in the regained lands [73]


What's 'illicit' about having a partner?

Love / More loveless sex of Poles living in the regained lands [73]


How would you define 'promiscuity'?

Love / More loveless sex of Poles living in the regained lands [73]


And who decides what is or isn't 'immoral'?

Study / Learning Polish in Warsaw - good school recommendation? [47]


They don't have a good reputation.

Love / More loveless sex of Poles living in the regained lands [73]


Better education.

History / Polish Officer in NATO, Col. Ryszard Kukliński. [145]

And the oath he took was to Germany. Not to a madman. Simple as.

History / Polish Officer in NATO, Col. Ryszard Kukliński. [145]

Kuklinski wasn't a mercenary. He was an officer in the army of his country who betrayed his vow.

There are indeed many such examples. Most of them treason.

History / Polish Officer in NATO, Col. Ryszard Kukliński. [145]

And it was the state that Kuklinski swore his solemn oath to. End of.

History / Polish Officer in NATO, Col. Ryszard Kukliński. [145]

Very different. And even if it hadn't been, that is no excuse to betray his country or his comrades.

Von Stauffenberg, by the way was a very different kettle of fish.

History / Polish Officer in NATO, Col. Ryszard Kukliński. [145]

And such people are regarded as traitors and punished. Bradley Manning probably thought he was doing the right thing too, as did Burgess & Maclean, Rosenberg etc.

History / Polish Officer in NATO, Col. Ryszard Kukliński. [145]

There is however a universal principal that a soldier does not betray his vow. Ever.

History / Polish Officer in NATO, Col. Ryszard Kukliński. [145]

An oath is an oath. No ifs or buts.

News / US-POLAND special relationship [20]

Remember they voted, as Serbia will, to join the EU. Poland's future is as part of that Union, with whom the USA has good relations.

History / Polish Officer in NATO, Col. Ryszard Kukliński. [145]

The guy took a solemn oath. Then broke it.

News / US-POLAND special relationship [20]


That is just silly. Anyway, Poland doesn't have a special relationship with the US. It is however a key part of the EU.