History / What was better in Poland under communism? [67]

She just got it wrong. Her parents may remember snitching as the worst Polish vice, and it did happen, of course. But you don't get an institution of 'fucha' when every second person might be a snitch. You don't get ripe bribery, when snitching is a popular sport. You can't have the word 'organise' with its unique Polish meaning, if snitching is any problem.

The very thing that they hated it so much is typically Polish. A snitch is the lowest form of life in Poland. You can be useful, you can be nice, you can be an expert, but if you are a snitch, you're done.

History / What was better in Poland under communism? [67]


Yeah, that's how you get a massive samizdat working.


Get yourself an enema, or what...

Language / Are the context of these Polish sentences correct? [101]


It's a typical English word sequencing, sounds quite awkward in Polish. Jutro musisz wcześnie wstać.

Language / Are the context of these Polish sentences correct? [101]


rolling. Rolling by. Revolving implies staying in place and going in circles. A życie toczy się dalej. And the life rolls on.

Language / Are the context of these Polish sentences correct? [101]


nit-picking, but it's a school, like, innit.

kiedy idę do miasta, to siadam gdzieś i obserwuję przepływające obok życie.

But I will not bet on which is better. Just my take on it.

Edit: justy was quicker...

Language / Are the context of these Polish sentences correct? [101]


now translate it into English.

Pleeeease :)

Life / Things we enjoyed as kids in Poland [140]


mamy maslo mamy serek niech nam zyje Edward Gierek
mamy maslo mamy serek NIECH NAM ZYJE EDWARD GIEREK!
MAMY MASLO MAMY SEREK NIECH NAM ZYJE EDWARD GIEREK!!

we were shouting it in some small town about midnight, and we saw two smurfs on patrol passing by. You could see they didn't know how to react :))

History / Lwów, Wilno ... kresy - Poland have lost enormoust part of our heritage... [389]



en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lviv says though:

Poland gained control over Lviv and adjacent region in 1349.
which makes 6 centuries.

Seems renowned Ukrainian historian has about 2/3 of knowledge needed, and Nathan like 19/600, which is 3%.

History / Lwów, Wilno ... kresy - Poland have lost enormoust part of our heritage... [389]


Unless it's the first language, like in the Eastern Ukraine.


You suggesting at least million Poles were relocated to Galicia between 1920 and 1931? Or your laugh is just a usual maniacal giggle?


Glory be. Can't be more pleased.

History / Lwów, Wilno ... kresy - Poland have lost enormoust part of our heritage... [389]


Seems I am. I've read some Nathan's productions before.


I don't find much fun in barking, that's why. But yes, I left it hanging. Google for 1931 cenzus, or history of Lwow. I don;t care much if you don't.

And don't bother to convince me any more. I know about problems Ukrainians had before 1939, and I know that you should lick our hands anyway, because if Poland didn't take those lands in 1920, you'd be speaking Russian now, like the the other half.

History / Lwów, Wilno ... kresy - Poland have lost enormoust part of our heritage... [389]


Chill down. It meant that you should've lied down and rolled over, now you are barking back with facts. Cheek-in-tongue admittance of defeat.

Now the meaning has changed, however. It was late in the night, I only skimmed your quotation. Now I can see something like that:

In the middle schools in Volhynia only 344 (14%) Ukrainians were enrolled in comparison to 2599 Poles (1938).[verification needed]

Three sentences further on there is:

In the 1936/37 academic year only 344 Ukrainians (13.3%)in comparison to 2599 Poles were enrolled in middle school.

Suspicion arises, there's something not quite right here. Like, not all the facts are exactly what they seem at first glance.

Furthermore, your quotation starts with:

The Poles suppressed the Ukrainian educational system, reducing the number of Ukrainian-language schools from 440 to 8.

In the article, 3 paragraphs higher, there is this:

The law (...) resulted in a rapid decline in the number of uni-lingual Ukrainian schools (from 2,426 in 1922 to 352 in 1938 in Galicia; and from 443 in 1922 to 8 in 1938 in Volhynia)

The article was obviously very hastily edited, not to say tampered with. Or, maybe, Ukraine means Volhynia only, and Galicia is more like Poland.

Given that, and Bzibzioh's warning, I am not really interested which of the options you choose to defend. And the meaning of my motto takes on a more literal flavour, as mentioned.

Pity, really. Years ago I was participating in a PLUA mailing list, where Ukrainians and Poles disputed the issues of today's Western Ukraine. Sometimes hotly, but tricks like that were pulverised by both sides immediately, regardless of who would benefit from them. The result was astounding. People came there to whine about atrocities, and stayed to learn the other language, so they could know more and more about the other fascinating nation. Sometimes it seemed they are going to declare independent PLUA republic, and leave all them Polish and Ukrainian morons to themselves.

Take care.

Edit:

from the same article:

According to statistics for the year 1937, 3,516 Ukrainian co-operative unions existed with a total of 661 thousand members. 120 Ukrainian periodicals were published in the 30s.[19] There were nine legal Ukrainian and Ruthenian parties, reflecting the full range of political opinion.[20] The vibrant political life and the varieties of representation within the Ukrainian political spectrum, was a development that became possible due to the tolerant policies (as compared to the Soviet Ukraine) of the interwar Poland.[21] During the first decade of Polish rule, electrification and telephone service were introduced to all important towns, the proportion of children attending to schools raised from 15% to 70% in Volhynia alone,[22] and the illiteracy rate in Ukrainian territories fell from 50 percent to 35 percent. By 1938, the number of elementary schools in Volhynia and Polessia increased over three times to 3,100, and from 4,030 to 4,998 in Galicia [23] Polish policy also gave rise to the first generation of educated Volhynian Ukrainians.[24]

repeat:

the proportion of children attending to schools raised from 15% to 70% in Volhynia alone

So maybe the low admittance of Ukrainians from Volhynia into universities stems from something different than Polish brutal suppression of Ukrainian education system. Like from lack of the said system in pre-independent Poland.

Happy barking, Nathan.

History / Lwów, Wilno ... kresy - Poland have lost enormoust part of our heritage... [389]


*sigh* and I asked for it myself... never trust Ukrainians, never...

Obliged, what can I do now. However, this doesn't change the fact that Lwow and the region were Polish for ages.

History / Lwów, Wilno ... kresy - Poland have lost enormoust part of our heritage... [389]

It was a good move for the times. The mistake was Poles let Jagiello to save the Teutons. He was the king, though.

History / Lwów, Wilno ... kresy - Poland have lost enormoust part of our heritage... [389]


People died, people died. This wasn't a zero-sum game. Much of the heritage went up with smoke as well.

Language / because - what are the diferences between "bo" and "ponieważ" [10]

'ponieważ' is more bookish, and that's it. In spoken Polish 'bo' prevails.

Oh, no. That's when an amateur tries to be helpful... There's another difference: you can say '(Ponieważ) whatever, (więc) sth else', but you can't use 'bo' in this position. But you can say 'Bo sth', if answering to 'Why xxx?'

History / Lwów, Wilno ... kresy - Poland have lost enormoust part of our heritage... [389]

Well, Nathan, Lwow and Wilno had a crushing Polish majority in 1920, after about 150 years of no Polish government at all.

I'd be grateful for links about banning Ukrainians from universities and burning libraries. Non-ukrainian links, rather.

Life / School and stadium violence in Poland? [21]

or the teacher goes to see the headmaster, and the grade is being revised.

Life / School and stadium violence in Poland? [21]

I wouldn't call it that strange.

They said kids are barbarians and need to be civilised. Some apparently barbaric ways seem to work for them. In my times it wasn't unusual to get a series of painful whacks on the palm with a wooden ruler. Drives the message in.

Nowadays teachers can just appeal and explain, and that in a restricted tone of voice. A teenager can successfully complain about being abused if a teacher shouts at him, whatever the misdemeanor.

Life / School and stadium violence in Poland? [21]

I'm not syre. There's a problem with Polish police now, bad memories, the tradition of corruption and unjustified violence. Seems it needs time.

Life / School and stadium violence in Poland? [21]

I'd say no. School violence results from the new, humane approach to pupils.

Well, there's no MO in the stadiums either, as somebody already pointed out...

History / German cemeteries in Wroclaw [17]

They can be a fertiliser, though - or human remains.

History / Battle of Wizna, WWII invasion. [13]


Just didn't happen to draw my attention. My historical education is rather haphazard, and I wasn't particularly interested in the September Campaign.

For example, the 'cavalry against tanks' - I knew a different story than the currently prevailing. There was a German documentary showing clearly ulans charging at tanks. The explanation was, the surrounded cavalry unit chose a surprising charge as a means of breaking through. Tanks formation was the best choice in the situation, and the whole thing showed the clearness of mind of a Polish commander rather, than obvious stupidity. Losses were insignificant, 2 or 3 people. This might've been some other event, though, not Krojanty, I don't remember.

Question remains, how come there was a German cameraman at the ready during a surprising charge.

History / German cemeteries in Wroclaw [17]


and especially that those boys weren't knights in shining armour either.

History / German cemeteries in Wroclaw [17]


Ok, Ok :) I just wanted to be sure you are really interested. Otherwise it would be waste of time.


There's a little nuance here, I think... Military cemetery, to me, includes some central glorifying memorial to the army. Hardly anything to expect in our case. These I would call 'German/Wehrmacht soldiers' cemeteries', and, as I am trying to recall now, this his how they are described in Poland most often. Maybe just my Polish linguistic hair-splitting.


In Poland it's a Catholic (and, consequently, cultural) thing, I'd guess. They are dead now, before the Judge, let them rest in peace, and a candle and short prayer are not out of place either. People now, not enemies any more, after a while. In face of Death we are all equal, like. Children are taught this. Were, at least.


...but, the soviet cemeteries are a different thing. Boys are boys, but their graves carry a hated symbol, and in the middle of it there is a huge memorial to 'our brave and selfless liberators'. Neither in Poland nor in Germany they were seen like that, generally. So it's a brazen lie, first of all, and only then a cemetery.

I didn't mention it before, but that search 'profanacja cmentarzy niemieckich' flooded my screen with pages about desecration of soviet graves. Some of it could've been a leftie spin, but definitely not all of it. The small minority of desecrations were on Jewish cemeteries and on Christian cemeteries, by Satanists, apparently.

Edit:


Seconded...

History / Poland provoked Germany to start WW2 by mobilising first [94]


You mean it was after 1989? WTF took them so long to pay this money?

History / Warsaw Uprising - The Forgotten Soldiers [117]


There was a 10 year non-aggression pact of 1934, with Germany recognizing its Eastern borders.

German policy changed drastically in late 1938, after the annexation of Sudetenland sealed the fate of Czechoslovakia and Poland became Hitler's next target. This a Wiki interpretation, so you might not agree. However, 1934 + 10 seems a bit later later than 1938, innit? Hitler broke the pact with provocative demands.

BB, Poland is not responsible for the WW2. Western Poland of 1920 was nothing more that Poland had before the partitions, and even slightly less. Poznan was never a German city. It's not like everything becomes German forever, wherever a German foot trod once. Stop being ridiculous, please.

I understand you want to grow some balls after three generations of kowtow. But please.

History / Poland provoked Germany to start WW2 by mobilising first [94]


I was just reading the same article, out of curiosity what Wiki says.

In the first years after the war, the bishop of Katowice Stanisław Adamski criticized the expulsion of Germans as inhumane. In 1965, a group of Polish bishops made a particularly important overture by sending a letter to their German counterparts in which they asked forgiveness for the wrongs perpetrated during the expulsion and at the same time offered forgiveness for German war crimes. (...)

The Polish role in the expulsions could not be contemplated in Poland until the end of the Cold War. (...)

In 1995, Polish foreign minister Władysław Bartoszewski expressed regret about the suffering of innocent Germans during the expulsions in a speech held before German parliament and federative council. (...)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_and_expulsion_of_Germans_from_Pola nd_during_and_after_World_War_II

Well...

News / Poland hosts lowest proportion of foreigners in the EU [115]

I guess so. Except that Macedonia is on the 21/22 list:

keeptonyblairforpm.wordpress.com/2009/12/09/of-the-22-world-conflicts-around-the-world-21-are-muslim/

edit: (You missed the point, and I got baited. The discussion was on theological points, not on practice of living)

Muslims are peaceful in the UK too. Except stubborn attempts on blowing up some passers-by.

Ok, this is a 'radical minority with no support in the majority of peaceful, hard-working Muslims'. The second part of this sentence bothers me, though. No general open support, granted. Quiet acceptance, seems like. Open support by some leaders, documented.

'Seems like' needs explanation. As I hinted already, I have some close contacts with Westernised Muslims here. Quite willing to discuss Islam, as the faith requires. One conversation started with my blunt question about Muslim terrorists, and the answer was prompt and curt 'idiots'. So I asked about Jihad, and now the picture was somehow different: there is High and Low Jihad, the high one being personal struggle for perfection, the low one happening to be violent against other people. But which is the true one? People have right to personal interpretations and still be Muslims, as Islam is One. No condemnation, then.

Since then I got sensitized to opinions on terror by Muslims, and I met 1(one) person who satisfied me. That girl brought up in Finland: 'these are NOT true Muslims!'. So Islam is a religion of peace, yet warmongers are a legitimate part of it .

The topic seems to be wandering

News / Poland hosts lowest proportion of foreigners in the EU [115]



It was an answer to 'Muslims see Christians as brothers'. They don't.

Christians never claimed Muslim-love. Until recently. The Church changes, all the time.


Neither do I, actually. Still it's significantly bigger than white's. 2-3 children per family is more than 1-2, this not including couples with no children at all. And there are no French immigrants coming to France, as opposed to Muslims.