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Posts by Bratwurst Boy  

Joined: 2 Apr 2007 / Male ♂ 		Last Post: 20 Nov 2025
Threads: Total: 9 / In This Archive: 2
Posts: Total: 12482 / In This Archive: 4472 		From: Berlin, Germany
Speaks Polish?: No
Interests: his helmet

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Bratwurst Boy   
2 Sep 2010
Life / Best of two worlds - Poland and... Germany [29]

Maybe BB has some input on the German/Polish relations in Germany or he has a story he wanst to share?

Hmm...actually it's here on PF that I came to know abit about Poles and Poland only.
Sadly Poland does just not happen to blimp on the german radar besides if something negative happens (car thefts, anti-german rethorik by polish politicians or as humourless, tantrum throwing whiners whenever a German dares to make a joke about them etc.)

Of course Poles blame the Germans for it but I'm not so sure...nobody will get attention automatically...on the other hand I learned that there are many polish-german cultural projects, I have no idea why they are not more featured in (our both) the media.

I think that the gist of the problem is that Poland in the main (media) still not got over the whole war thingy and looks at Germany with unfriendly eyes...(But then they are unfriendly against Russia and others too so maybe it's normal)

As for most Germans the war is long history and we have quite good relationships with also most other ex-enemies and even further East (Russia) and even Israel, so I think it's more a polish than a german problem.

Just my opinion...

I also think that the upcoming football European championship can be a huge chance for Poland to become better known in the West. Germans will look at Poland/Ukraine very closely for a month...and german TV brings alot about the hosts country during the breaks, I know that from experience :)

But as I said...it needs two to tango!
It isn't only a german problem and the recurring "Those arrogant bloody Nazis!" if Poles again feel gravely slighted just because they imagine a German is looking at them the wrong way isn't going to help our relationship at all.

Actually both countries businesses have already no problem to work well with each other...
Bratwurst Boy   
1 Sep 2010
History / Today is the 1st of September (WWII start in Poland) [138]

In Yugoslavia there was still fight in the 90's.

But that had nothing to do with the reasons for the great european war...
If Tito hadn't died there would be probably still a Yugoslavia!
Bratwurst Boy   
1 Sep 2010
History / Today is the 1st of September (WWII start in Poland) [138]

...started on 28th of July 1914 and ended 15th of August 1945...

*nods*

Here more and more historians agree...but some go even further...for them the great european war ended only in 1989 !
Bratwurst Boy   
1 Sep 2010
History / Today is the 1st of September (WWII start in Poland) [138]

It is to remind younger generations about what happened,

The war started not with the 1th of September...it started much earlier and was a rather longish, more complicated process. Many historians say it was more the end of the armistice from WWI.

Nothing happened out of the blue sky...

That's the history people should and need to learn about, not only the date when the first hot shot was fired!
Bratwurst Boy   
1 Sep 2010
Life / Best of two worlds - Poland and... Germany [29]

If you buy a flat/house in Görlitz, you first pay tax on the property, then electricity, water and everything else that comes with it.

*nods*

That would be okay! :)

There is also a bit of border trade from the german side too...many Germans cross the border to enjoy polish goods or services which are much cheaper than in Germany.

That's why many business entrepreneurs on both sides offer their services already in german and polish! :)

I too believe in a great future of the once-dead-barbwire-machine guns-now-free-again-but- quite-empty-border regions!

But it needs brave adventurers willing to take the risks...like the wild, wild East it is!!!
*saddle your horse cowboy* :)

Hopes BB accepts my offering of coming down in my Viking ship filled with loot...eh I mean quality tapestry.

You shall pass!

:):):)
Bratwurst Boy   
1 Sep 2010
Life / Best of two worlds - Poland and... Germany [29]

Na ja...how long do you think will Görlitz stay nice if people only take out of it what they can and give nothing back (taking their money to Poland instead).

Where do you think the money to keep things nice and clean should come from???
You should at least pay your taxes in Görlitz....

When you really like what you see on the german side than you should strive to support it, not to leech from it.
Because if everybody would do this then...

Isn't it this kind of thinking what hinders polish towns to "catch up" in the first place?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6rlitz

There is not everything dire though....Görlitz belongs to the Dresden region and that region is positively booming. Already a german center for high-tech and research...our Silikon valley.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saxony#Economy

If one is smart and knows more than only one language he can surely find a niche to profit from the changing face of the once border region!

German-English-Polish would be perfect regarding the future of this region. :)
Bratwurst Boy   
1 Sep 2010
History / Today is the 1st of September (WWII start in Poland) [138]

I wasn't referring with that line to Germany, but to Poland.

I can understand that Germans don't want to commemorate their defeat.

Which country want's to commemorate their defeat? I don't understand why Poland should???
(That's why I don't understand your question....)
Bratwurst Boy   
1 Sep 2010
History / Today is the 1st of September (WWII start in Poland) [138]

I realise that.

I doubt that M-G....the 8th of May isn't commemorated in Germany either...not even as alot of PC-people try to explain that as a day of liberation for Germany too, most Germans just don't see it that way, never have.

The only thing Germans connect with the 1th of September is the starting of school and the first day for the youngest kids is a kind of a holiday with their "Schultüte" (First-Day-of School-cornet).

1th of September in Germany:

:)

PS: Does Holland commemorate the day of the dutch surrender?

Which countries revels in defeats???
Bratwurst Boy   
1 Sep 2010
History / Should HMG compensate Poland and/or Polish veterans? [90]

The question is, what if he wasn't stopped?

He lost it...he should had stopped with France.
The high point for the Germans really had been the reversed humiliation as he forced the french to subscribe to their capitulation in the same wagon in Versailles from 1918.

No, what he had in mind later was unwinnable!

What was happening from the first signing of pact between Germany and Poland in 1934 that made him so unsure

A detoriating mind!
Bratwurst Boy   
1 Sep 2010
History / Should HMG compensate Poland and/or Polish veterans? [90]

I know everything about Generalplan Ost...it was shoved down our throats in school often enough.
I only came slowly questioning it as a) nobody could point me to the original source only some shady copy out of someones memory AND b.) as I learned how "multikulti" Hitler's troops actually were after all.

With alot of "subhumans" in them, voluntarily.

Make of that what you want.

6 milion people murdered and occupation by the soviets is still preferreble to all people murdered and the country gone forever.

Now that sounds rather like a convenient apology that the government denies any error it probably made...you know:
"We were right to not deal with Hitler he would had killed us anyhow"

Oh...and the soviet commies told the same story for decades too....another try at justifying their brotherly help and liberation...as in:
"Look, we are so much nicer than the mean Nazis, they would had killed you all anyhow. Be grateful to comrade Stalin!"

So, it must be true then!

6 milion people and a wrecked country is a high price but we're still around, dealing with Hitler might've meant we'd get wiped out.

You never would had even had the price to pay that you did and would still be around!
Hitler had the chance of a fruitfly in hell to win this war and not even the Jews got wiped out in the end!
(But of course it would be much harder to cope with such horrible suffering if one can believe it was necessary and for a good cause!)
Bratwurst Boy   
1 Sep 2010
History / Should HMG compensate Poland and/or Polish veterans? [90]

Holland is on the way to France?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Netherlands_(1939%E2%80%931945)#Interbellum

...
One of the purposes of the German invasion of the Netherlands was to draw away attention from operations in the Ardennes and to lure British and French forces deeper into Belgium as well as to pre-empt a possible British invasion in North Holland. Also, the Luftwaffe had insisted on seizing the Dutch soil for they were in need of airfields near the Northsea coast.

Hitler for sure didn't want anything between him and GB/France left unattended.

What if he would have been successful? You think the future held peaceful times for Poland surrounded by German territory? Like it did for the Czechs?

They wouldn't had suffered so much and not destroyed...the Czechs came out of all this fairly unscathed.

Considering that he wasn't making those decisions at the time, it's a non issue.

I'm just reacting to your "the book" issue...THAT was a non-issue for many contemporary people and politicians at that time too...

Right after the motto: "What does interest me my crap I wrote yesterday"

How can you control where the British are if the ocean is all around Europe? :) No matter what you do, you won't cover all the beaches of Europe?

What do you ask me? Am I Hitler or what??? ;)

Hitler would do it anyway.

Where did you read that?
Bratwurst Boy   
1 Sep 2010
History / Should HMG compensate Poland and/or Polish veterans? [90]

Come on, invasion of Greece???

The Brits where in Greece...and we had to bail out the useless Italians..
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Greece

It seemed that he was just too arrogant if he thought of attacking Soviets alone while chunk of his army was enjoying pyramids and Greek statues and temples.

That too....*nods*

I'm just saying regardless what he once wrote...he gladly accepted any allies or even neutrals, Slavs or not!
So that after-war-story that he would had killed all Easterners anyhow is just a myth (at least not cast in stone from the beginning).

Alot of Slavs ended up actually fighting FOR the Nazis (well not for them but for their own goals but you get my drift).

That's why there had been other options open to a smarter polish government than those which they actually took.
It couldn't have been any worse in the end!

So no, it wasn't all the Brits fault...which brings us back to the topic *phew*
Bratwurst Boy   
1 Sep 2010
History / Should HMG compensate Poland and/or Polish veterans? [90]

I'm guessing he just wanted peaceful relations with the benelux and Denmark too, but they did something that made war unavoidable?

The benelux where on the way to France (For the second time), also them and Denmark were more or less left alone after a puppet regime was installed. Denmark was useful against Norway and as a pre-caution against a british invasion.

Yea, it was the death of a former head of state. You can respect a man and still want to kill him.

I rather believe he was honestly saddened as Pilsudski might have come to an agreement with him if he hadn't died.

Fact of the matter is, he scribbled some things down while in prison that made him untrustworthy for the Poles, and rightfully so as it turns out.

Trust??? What trust???
The Poles trusted France and Great Britain...that helped them big time!
Foreign policy based on "trust"??? Stop joking!

Yeah...dealing with Hitler would had surely made things much worse for Poland....sure!
Bratwurst Boy   
1 Sep 2010
History / Should HMG compensate Poland and/or Polish veterans? [90]

Hitler wasn't Napoleon who just went after what he wanted. His catious conquerings of Europe had a good reason

Maybe he started out as cautious but he surely lost it soon. He changed Nathan, he got sick in body and mind very quickly...
He should have known that Russia was to big, that another two front war could only spell doom, he did it nonetheless.

Back to "the book" convex: avalon.law.yale.edu/imt/judpolan.asp

" And so the way to a friendly understanding has been successfully paved, an understanding which, beginning with Danzig, has today, in spite of the attempts of certain mischief makers succeeded in finally taking the poison out of the relations between Germany and Poland and transforming them into a sincere, friendly cooperation. Relying on her friendships, Germany will not leave a stone unturned to save that ideal which provides the foundation for the task which is ahead of us peace."

What book??? ;)

2) The High Command of the Armed Forces has been directed to draw up a precise timetable for Fall Weiss and to arrange by conferences the synchronised timings between the three branches of the Armed Forces." On the 11th April, 1939, a further directive was signed by Hitler and issued to the armed forces, and in one of the annexes to that document the words occur:

" Quarrels with Poland should be avoided. Should Poland however adopt a threatening attitude towards Germany, " a final settlement " will be necessary, notwithstanding the pact with Poland.

Hitler decided who would be his enemy or friend....from one day to the next....he would had cuddled up to "subhuman slavs" if they would not hinder him in his quest against Stalin!

The purpose of the speech was to announce the decision to make war on Poland at once, and Hitler began by saying:

" It was clear to me that a conflict with Poland had to come sooner or later. I had already made this decision in the Spring, but I thought that I would first turn against the West in a few years, and only afterwards against the East . . . I wanted to establish an acceptable relationship with Poland in order to fight first against the West. But this plan, which was agreeable to me, could not be executed since essential points have changed. It became clear to me that Poland would attack us in case of a conflict with the West."

Bratwurst Boy   
1 Sep 2010
History / Should HMG compensate Poland and/or Polish veterans? [90]

Instead of working out some plans with those countries for the benefit of common defense. Stalin would have never dared to do what he did, eliminating millions of people, neither Hitler if he saw common front from so many nations.

I really don't think so....

The eventual clash between Hitler and Stalin would had come at last...Europe just wasn't big enough for both of them. It was also an ideological fight of the West against the growing Bolshewism, not avoidable.

The question was where would they meet, where would the main battle line be...
Bratwurst Boy   
1 Sep 2010
History / Should HMG compensate Poland and/or Polish veterans? [90]

The choice of sides was a wise one, dealing with Hitler and his Germany was never a good idea (Stalin and 1941 anyone?).

Really???
You say a totally destroyed country with more than 6 million people murdered and afterwards occupied for more then 50 years was a wise choice????

Oooookaaaaay...

If you are all peachy about how things unfolded then there is nothing to discuss anymore....

the guy made an open case of Poles going to the chambers,

Germany under Hitler was quite prepared to accept various East European peoples as allies against Bolshevism, for example Slovaks, Hungarians, Romanians, Bulgarians, Bosnian Muslims, Croatians, Macedonians. Even some of the Soviet peoples were acceptable, for example Estonians, Latvians, Lithuanians, Cossacks, and also Belorussians and Ukrainians to some extent.

He would had taken gladly polish allies!

PS: Dealing with Hitler and Stalin would had been the top priority of any country in Polands dire situation (right between them).
Ignoring them, antagonizing them was the most stupid thing any gov could have done!
*backs out slowly*

Just another assessment:

If the Polish Government had not chosen in March 1939 to ally itself with Britain for the purpose of confronting Germany, the fate of the Polish population would have been no worse than that of the Czechs, and possibly better. If Poland had allied itself with Germany in 1939, then the experience of Poles would have been comparable to that of Hungarians, Romanians, Bulgarians and Croats. Like those peoples, the Poles might well have ended up under Communist rule, in the wake of a failed war against the Soviet Union, but they would not have suffered devastation at German hands.

Bratwurst Boy   
1 Sep 2010
History / Should HMG compensate Poland and/or Polish veterans? [90]

BS...The Poles apparently read his book.

Yeah sure...they surely had "the book" in mind as they invited Hitler to the funeral of Pilsudski - and Hilter accepted. 1935
ww2incolor.com/german_leadership/1.html

In 1939.when the Germans took Kraków (Krakau) Hitler ordered the Wehrmacht to set at Piłsudski's graive a honor guard.

Somehow doesn't fit into the after war narrative, doesn't it!

Hitler wanted negotiations with Poland...he even would had sacrificed Danzig for a favourable treaty (something Germans only learned much later mind you).

He made his own policies and laws up as he did go along...everything was possible!
Bratwurst Boy   
31 Aug 2010
History / Should HMG compensate Poland and/or Polish veterans? [90]

We both know it was a start, so did the polish politicians back then, the people you call not pragmatic knew perfectly well that the corridor is the first in the line of demands that will lead to Polands destruction, whats the point of allowing your enemy to weaken you?

Poland was courted by Hitler as an possible ally in the East....other countries (like Hungaria) too took the pragmatic choice.
If not allying themselves they stayed neutral for the most part. All these options had been open.
Hitlers main beef was with Stalin from the beginning, not with Warsaw.
He even offered talks about Danzig, nothing was cast in stone!
But Polands eventual choice to antagonize both it's juggernaut neighbours and hope that far away France or GB will somehow save their nuts was plain stupid.

And I think a corridor only used by the german Reichsbahn and letting a fully german town stay german had been not much to ask for in exchange to the carnage of destruction later.

...but he was not stupid...

...Thats why he made those comments,...

Ah ja..
So making these comments was smart?

20 years ago for example Poland could steamroll Germany, today...not so much, but those comments are not made by Poles, we both know that actuall Poles here are what? 10 people?

If they call themselves Poles how can I differ between them! :(

ut that doesnt change the fact that civilisationally Poland stood head and shoulders over Germany (or France or Russia really) with the only country comparable being Britain.

Wishful thinking again....Poles delusional..not exactly a first! ;)

Germans were never a majority there and held the lands for 120 years through force of arms alone so whats the claim?

Not again that sh'it Sok...we had it cleared up so often already that Germans had been the majority in many territories and towns for more than 500 years already! I'm disappointed in you! :(

Even the latest silesian plebiscite by the international League of Nation showed clearly that a majority wished to belong to Germany.

Poland did not invade Czechoslovakia it retook the lands that Czechs took from Poland in 1919,

Yeah....so did German in 1939, saving Germans from the Poles in lands stolen from them by the beastly Poles!
(When you want to play the propaganda game I can do so too...)

Everything and here's another proof for you that Poles were the most pragmatic polticians in Europe.

If they had been they would had worked for an agreement with Hitler or Stalin or, if extremely smart, with both.
But instead they chose the most stupid, most destructive thing they possible could. No other diplomatic decision could had been probably worse than that what actually happened later!

ugly f*ckers all of them

Hey! No reason to be mean....

*leaves pouting*
Bratwurst Boy   
31 Aug 2010
History / Why did the reformation not have a huge effect on Poland? [28]

Maybe they were just happy with how things were? *shrugs*

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant_Reformation

...The Protestant Reformation began as an attempt to reform the Catholic Church, effected by Western European Catholics who opposed what they perceived as false doctrines and ecclesiastic malpractice - especially the teaching and the sale of indulgences, and simony, the selling and buying of clerical offices - that the reformers saw as evidence of the systemic corruption of the church's hierarchy, which included the Pope.

...because the Germans for sure weren't.
Bratwurst Boy   
31 Aug 2010
History / Should HMG compensate Poland and/or Polish veterans? [90]

Thats because you dont really know a lot about our history BB.

Hey...but I'm learning! :)

German negotiations and compromises involved taking huge chunks of Poland or exteritorial highways, both unacceptible to any country.

I wouldn't call the asking for a corridor to East Prussia and the guarantee of the german town Danzig as unacceptable.
Nothing the Poles wouldn't demand for themselves if the shoe had been on the other foot.

You're basing that on what?

How about Rydz-Smigly? He was quoted with these...erm...overconfident sayings.
And he wasn't exactly a lowly nobody in the contemporary polish government...

Germans had propaganda that said they're saving Jews

The german Jew policy wasn't of any concern to the majority of the Poles at that time. Poland having their own brand of anti-jewish laws and prejudices.

Theeeere we go, german prejudices over little Poles, even you can't really shake 'em.

Well..even today Poles on this forum think Poland could readily win an military engagement against the "p*ussy" Germans!
Overconfidence seems to be hereditary with some! :)

Again the stupid german racism, your backwards nation not only destroyed my country,

Astounding that your country could do nothing against this "backward country" of mine.

You are the only one who would call Germany a "backward" country btw...I don't even know why you do that but that is your own mystery!

Feeling abit inferior again? ;)

As for Poland, it recognized Germany for what it was, a bunch of raving barbarians led by a lunatic,

Nah...they rather saw a possibility to grab even more of the contested land with heavily mixed population whose people so stubbornly were still preferring Germany to Poland.

After all Poland had no qualms to invade helpless Czechoslovakia alongside the lunatic Nazis as it suited them to do so.
And now, as they had the Frenchies and the Brits on their side what could possible go wrong, right? Riiiiiight!

Kaczyński said many smart things albeit in a stupid manner,

Well, so did Hitler!

Germans are not, will not be our friends,

Countries have no friends...they can have common goals and now it seems Poland knows what's good for them (at last).

:)
Bratwurst Boy   
31 Aug 2010
History / Should HMG compensate Poland and/or Polish veterans? [90]

no one in Poland desired it

I doubt that very much!
There were many nationalist, overconfident politicians and officers who did everything to spark the fire, not interesting in negotiations or compromises at all. Some of the elite really desired to "show it to the Teutons!"

since Poles were well aware that alone they will lose

Really?

"In Berlin in one Week"
"Germany can't avoid war even if she wanted to!"

Totally believing they could hold a candle to the german army and fully trusting their allies in case the pushes came to shove.

Poles are not known for cold pragmatism even today (*remembers Kaczynskies in power and their highly inflammatory anti-german rethoric even as we were now official allies in EU and NATO - how bad that must have been in an even more hostile environment*).