History /
Slavic vs Germanic thinking.... and the philosophical differences [251]
Yes, and also that people back then didn't define themselves as 'nationals'
In what sense? It is really difficult to gauge what people back then have been thinking. We can agree that they didn't perceive their identity as people in modern or today world do. Foremost they were Christians belonging to sphere of the Mother Church which has been divined into the estates of the realm then they belonged to community they have been born into.For hypothetical person his allegation would be in order to the Church, county or town if townee, his estate in the realm, X province and subject of X king.
For Kopernik it would be the Church foremost and then again church as he was clergyman and then Church and then province and King.
However I do not see as this affect his perception today? After all Poles do not claim anybody who has been born east of the river Elbe as Poles or part Poles just because majority of the populations on those lands has been Slavic conquered by the Holly Roman Teutonic Empire. That would be the same logic that directs all those "arguments". Throe so called arguments stem from very modern and very fresh German nationalism who seek to grab everything they possible could as being German by "blood". I don't understand as such racist argument can be even for a while considered as valid by the present day philosophers on PF who are fist to condemn Polish nationalism ( they have no idea about ) if the opportunity arise.
Talk about Koperink and German claims is nothing more like giving to racist chauvinists claims made by certain German historian in the past whose bias should be visible today even to the most lazy eye. In short that is unsustainable BS.
Kopernik belongs to the Polish culture and to the Polish history as Poland is a natural heir of the former Polish Kingdom. It is quite simple really. It has sold rock foundation unlike fantastic claims of Germans they see connection between themselves and Arminius. Well, how that differs from Crow's stories about big Sarmatian Empire and Slavic Rule?
You all guys have been subjected to German racism based propaganda and you don't even realize it. Pathetic. Why you doubt Crow then?
Nothing changes the fact that the borders between Poland and that-time "Germany" were often blurrier than my historical knowledge has ever been!
If you are talking about something you are rather expected to know at least what and when, Talking about 15 century and having only fragmented information about Germany during WWII is not a good basic for solid debate, In other words you are staling and you don't know your ass from your elbow.
Good thing that you count all ethnic German citizens of the Second Republic as Poles, too... :)
I can do better then that, i can count all German writers, poets, scientist and all other notable people who were born or were native to land east of the river Elbe. I have as much right to do it as you to claim Kopernik and it is based on the same racist logic -" blood".
, spoke German first
Any links? It is yet another assumption taken as fact and interpreted in specific way. I'm just saying because at the time people were specking many languages but that didn't matter as much as today.
The only reason I'm asking is to learn how they know that? Did they taped his fist word or videotaped?
His 'nationality' is a useless debate.
I'm not debating his nationality but what nationality today have the right to claim him.
Miłosz and Mickiewicz were Polish-Lithuanian, and Chopin was Polish-French
Milosz was an ass hole and internationalist; Mickiweicz was a Pole as in his time Polish in Poland (ex-Poland) still meant what British in Britain means; Chopin son of a Polish lady and French immigrant born in Poland, educated in Poland, whoever he was his music is essentially Polish music. I have no idea about music or anything but I can recognize his music no brother, why? If he was French then he done more than any other Polish composer to propagate Polish culture and spirit by his music.