Life / IS Poland in danger of becoming the next multi cultural sink hole? [201]

That's true! The attitude of the 'stary kurwy' in the administrative centres is quite appalling. I went with my father-in-law one time and he just winked at me as if to say it's business as usual. Too many foreigners will be driven away by such attitudes. As cold as ice! The UK is a different story.

Poland has left a lot of excess baggage (old fogies) who will serve only white Poles reasonably well, and even then....

Life / IS Poland in danger of becoming the next multi cultural sink hole? [201]

Poland will be one of the last countries to become MC. Much depends on the decisions of their government but I can't see it anytime soon.

UK, Ireland / Are Polish people importing a new wave of ancient racism into the UK? [402]

It's really hard to gauge as many Poles may say sth amongst themselves but not out loud. There might be isolated cases but often through drunkenness.

Love / Do Polish men like to sleep with other men? [79]

I see the OP's point. I think there is a fair bit of latent homosexuality here. Part of it is genuine and the other may stem from disillusionment with some impossible women here. I know what the OP is getting at. However, Poles get closer to you when talking and that's part of their culture of interaction. I have to pull back a little as we don't get quite as close in Scotland, esp man-to-man.

News / Dumbing-down in Polish schools and the Matura [185]

Monia, my wife said she could pass any part. It's the Polish confidence she has. It comes from being forthright.

Love / Expat marrying Polish - honest experiences [38]

It is what you make it!

News / Dumbing-down in Polish schools and the Matura [185]

That's true so I won't sidetrack.

My wife says the new Matura is a piece of cake. She said she could pass it with her finger.....as the Polish expression goes (it's very easy). It might raise morale if it's easier but the hard work must be maintained as university brings its own complications.

News / Europe: Influence of Warsaw would rise, while influence of Brussels must drop? [18]

Crow, it's highly wishful thinking to assume for a moment that the EU will throttle back. It's like an overgrown octopus whose tentacles spread everywhere. From seminal court cases to downright belligerence, they have pushed the profile of Brussels right up. Warsaw is full of panderers, Crow. They bow to Brussels. Kowtowing galore!

News / Dumbing-down in Polish schools and the Matura [185]

I have requested my student to bring past papers to our last session on Sat before her English part on Wed. She told me that even after one thorough tense review with me, she had learned more than most of the year with her Polish teacher. I know from extensive experience that there are some elements of the tenses that Polish teachers don't project so well. She is relatively confident about the speaking part so all should be well.

News / Dumbing-down in Polish schools and the Matura [185]

I've heard that the Polish Matura/leaving exam is stern at the extended level too. In Poland in general the expectation level seems to be higher. In the private school I teach at, it's 75% just to pass the level. In Scotland, 70% and upwards is a first class pass at university.

If it is realistic that many have the skills and the teaching to pass, then fine. However, help through dumbing down and other ways might be helpful.

News / Dumbing-down in Polish schools and the Matura [185]

Once and for all, Darek, it is a Polish construct, not an English-language one. edu.pl, come on man, open your eyes. pl means Poland, not England or Scotland. It's all within the Polish system, we have different terms. Poles may see it as a form of maturation but we see it as a form of leaving or final secondary school exams. Fact!

You have already mentioned that your colleagues didn't understand Matura. That's why we say different things which don't square with the Polish logic. It's a different system. Read what Varsovian said above.

It may come to be that in the future, many will know what it is through constant exchange but, for now, the most common English language terms have to be used as this is a forum for users of English who should know that the Matura is a leaving exam done at the end of secondary school. It is for THEIR benefit, Darek.

News / Dumbing-down in Polish schools and the Matura [185]

Not at all. Matura is not particular to Poland as it is known elsewhere in Europe. So, 'the Polish Matura' singles out Poland. It is also the Matura exam but what YOU should be asking yourself is 'why is it used in the singular when native speakers pluralise?'. I took it as exam as it's egzamin in Polish and not egzaminy. We say Highers or A-Levels, true??

No, I've explained this already. It is out of respect for their system that some translate it to 'maturity exam'. Then it would be 'the Swiss Matura' or 'the Austrian Matura'. Is that so hard for you to understand??

Yes, a Polish educational background so why translate what the majority of Poles call the Matura into a term that is neither Polish nor English? Can't you see? A Polish person cannot turn round and say 'you guys say the maturity exam' as many here will testify that we don't. Poles understand Matura and it is up to the relevant educational institute to find out what that means. Not to have a bogus translation that moves it away from both.

Yes, it has a meaning that is too wide. Glad that you finally agree!

Which is why you translate it to secondary school leaving exam or high school exit exams (whatever they are called in the US or Canada).

Mafketis is a linguist and I'm a translator too. However, it's about knowing what we say and what we don't say. Anyway, look at Fedor's translator. Russians slate her for making mistake after mistake.

Face it, Darek, Matura is a construct that Poland has taken to mean 'maturity exam' but that we see as a leaving exam. Simple!

News / Dumbing-down in Polish schools and the Matura [185]

Exactly, mafketis. It needs some kind of description for native speakers who are unfamiliar with what it is. Maturity exam would be out of respect for the logic of their system but not because that's what it's referred to in our system.

News / Dumbing-down in Polish schools and the Matura [185]

As I've shown before, the Polish Matura is the term that is used in official circles (Edinburgh University). Look at the thread title, it has been corrected but do you see any mention of any maturity exam? I don't! You can describe the logic of it by saying that 'WE in Poland see it as a maturity exam whereby the pupil is seen to have come of age'. Then it would tie in with your footnote idea. However, as it stands, it's widely known as the Matura which is a Polish construct.

asie.unimelb.edu.au/poland/hegenpoland.html, 'the matura'

ucb.ac.uk/international-students/country/poland/home.aspx, it gives the Polish language words, then the neutral Matura as its translation

So, to be clear, Matura is a word used in the Polish educational system to denote a leaving exam. It's underpinning rationale/logic is one which seeks to examine the coming of age of a student to test their readiness for tertiary level education. In Britain, where the main language is English, we say Highers or A-levels. We don't refer to the maturity of the candidate in question as maturity can be judged in so many ways in so many contexts. proz.com/kudoz/polish_to_english/education_pedagogy/1138011-matura.html

a native speaker of Polish in Education

https://polishforums.com/uk-ireland/british-equivalents-matura-results-44821/ Justysia was happy with what I wrote and rightly so.

The bottom line is that we have other terms and the Polish Matura would need to be presented in such a way that it would be understandable to educational institutes. End of story! Don't translate your constructs (nie rób wiochy, np) into our language. Use our terminology if you want to use our language. Don't make a village, ROTFL.

News / Dumbing-down in Polish schools and the Matura [185]

Then discuss ;) ;)

So far, all you've done is make the mules/donkeys look good and agreeable ;) They are grateful to you for that :)

News / Dumbing-down in Polish schools and the Matura [185]

I don't need your services anyway as I have my own Polish lawyer :) :)

My education is as I posted. What luck do I need to have when I got my quals in Nov 2000? None!

You still don't have a point at all. Give me your central point and I'll refute it in another way as I have 20 times already. You are talking with a champion mooter who finds people like you barely a warm-up.

Oh, I read your post alright. No 56 where you said "I have been living in Canada for some time". So, who's the liar now???

News / Dumbing-down in Polish schools and the Matura [185]

You don't need to have heard of them. If you wanted to know, you could find out. Simple?

Matura is one exam? ;) ;)

A-levels are for the English so they focus on them. Matura is for Poles so they focus on that. Simple?

Sascha mentioned it, Monia. I don't expect you to know about the Bologna process and the equivalence of qualifications.

We DON'T want to translate, get it????? You have Matura and we have another set of exams. You should really be banned for spamming and flooding, Monia. You have no point!

You don't want to standardise, then fine. Don't refer to Matura as mature/maturity then. Simple??

Don't take a Polish construct and have the audacity to just assume native speakers will understand your maturity translation. Don't make a village, Monia ;) ;) ;) ROTFL

News / Dumbing-down in Polish schools and the Matura [185]

Monia, yes, we are talking about Poland hence I have been talking about the Polish Matura. Wow, 10/10 for observation, LOL My English reality? I'm Scottish and have been talking about Highers (Revised). I'd never hire your services as a lawyer as you can't argue well and don't pay attention.

Here? I thought you were in Canada. Please make your mind up.

I can comprehend what it means as I took the time to teach some Matura material. I asked about a maturity/mature exam but everyone just shrugged their shoulders. Ah, Matura, ok :) :)

I know more about A-levels than you do too as I'm in education :) :)

News / Dumbing-down in Polish schools and the Matura [185]

Really, Maaarysia? We have resits in Scotland and you have to wait til the next year to do it (I know as I failed one subject in year 5). My group was a bunch of buffoons who distracted me no end so I had to repeat it.

News / Dumbing-down in Polish schools and the Matura [185]

Good points, sascha. It is kind of nice to see people with good grades fall flat on their face as they had only learned how to learn and not taught themselves how to get ahead in the job market. Competition is all well and good but what does it really mean when universities and workplaces are not talking to each other regarding current needs?

Work / Holocaust and gender studies in Poland? [33]

Yeah, we should be careful with so-called facts here. Too many claim to know all about what happened when nobody was there. RIP to those who valiantly sought to save the lives of fellow human beings.

News / Dumbing-down in Polish schools and the Matura [185]

No, I just want people to actually discuss the thread and stop trying to win arguments they have already lost.

Boletus has given many ideas here for the likes of Darek and Monia as they are currently based in Canada. Aphro was too, I believe.

Never underestimate the power of societal pressure here. Priority should be placed on what could help people the most in their later lives. 'Who is the smartest? Who is the best? Who holds the aces, the East or the West? This is the crap, our children are learning' (The Tide is Turning, Roger Waters, Radio KAOS, 1987). Show the significance of what you are teaching. I try to do this the best I can.

Work / Holocaust and gender studies in Poland? [33]

Thanks, warsz. I wouldn't applaud them because they saved Jews per se but because they saved innocent lives.

News / Dumbing-down in Polish schools and the Matura [185]

Plenty to raise from earlier in the thread, Seanny. Feel free to choose your point.

News / Dumbing-down in Polish schools and the Matura [185]

No, you would have found 'the Polish Matura' if you had cared to open the link. Besides, Matura is a singular term. We say Revised Highers, plural. It's not one exam, it's many. A maturity exam would make it sound like an access test.

Maturity is a broad term which we don't use to refer to our Highers. Matura was NOT borrowed from English directly. If I wanted to discuss maturity, I'd make the point that girls are deemed to mature quicker by 5 years in Iran. 9 for girls and 14 for boys. However, that's maturity and not a leaving exam (or set of subjects on which you are tested).

At last!! So, any comments on now and then?

News / Dumbing-down in Polish schools and the Matura [185]

Exactly, aphro. It's Matura, end of. Matriculation is what I did at the start of every new year of university, aphro. No more terms, please. It's Matura.

You did the Matura, Aphro? I think so.

News / Dumbing-down in Polish schools and the Matura [185]

Here's one of our best universities (the best, I'd say), Darius ed.ac.uk/studying/international/country/europe-russia/polan d/matura, note the terminology used. Yes, it is NOT an English language expression so why translate it to maturity exam or mature exam? That's just a nonsense.

I've explained everything before, Darek, and won't do it again. Knowing and understanding are 2 different things.

Now, have you done the Matura?

News / Dumbing-down in Polish schools and the Matura [185]

Darek, ask delphiandomine here. We call it sth different, is that so hard to understand? My parents both have Masters Degrees but don't know of any maturity exams.

We don't feel the need to translate. Only some do when referring to foreign systems. End of!

News / Dumbing-down in Polish schools and the Matura [185]

They are referring to another educational system and applying terminology that is atypical, Darius. Want another example that would lead to confusion?
cs.tut.fi/~kypsyys/index-english.html
now tell me that education is uniform.

We need closest equivalents and not terms which serve to mislead.

It was called that in the context of the Polish system, alex. WHY the need for direct translation? Is 'nie rób wiochy' actually 'don't make a village' in English? No. It's not any maturity exam in English.

News / Dumbing-down in Polish schools and the Matura [185]

Darius, why are you splitting hairs here? We have moved on.

You are quoting me and saying "naive speakers"??? Native speakers of English. My parents wouldn't know what mature or maturity exam meant. Describe the Matura and give its closest equivalent and they would. Please check the random thread for this discussion.

Southern, Maaarysia and I have given PLENTY food for thought above. Please pick up on that or offer your own experiences. You lived in Poland, right? You went through the Matura?

Monia, what is the maturity exam? This is an English-speaking environment, please keep it that way. Kindly use Matura as that's what it is here, no shoddy translation needed.