News / Drunken Brit beats up young Polish policewoman [62]


That's because no one in authority is authorized to make such conclusions. The real fool is the one who is unable to look at the figures, do the maths and come up with his or her own conclusion. Or is too intrinsically racist to admit to their meaning.

The stats that you provided in the table only strengthen my point, that in proportion to their population the Poles are some of the most law abiding foreigners in the UK, which probably means you will disown them because it does not fit in to your view of the Poles as a people (which lets not beat around the bush, is at the heart of this debate).

News / Drunken Brit beats up young Polish policewoman [62]


Not just any stats, these stats are compiled by the Police and Home Office, and what they demonstrate is that Poles are 4 times more law abiding than the locals.

The clip that you provided contains an untruth namely that you can't deport foreign criminals from the UK.

News / Drunken Brit beats up young Polish policewoman [62]


Using your logic you could also argue that this number is over representative, and that Poles are actually more law abiding than the given statistic, and that instead of being 4 times more law abiding than the natives they could 8 times more law abiding.

News / Drunken Brit beats up young Polish policewoman [62]


So what you are saying is that there might be Poles, that we don't know about, who might have committed crimes, which we don't know about WTF.

Since you are not challenging the figures that I have provided, it seems that you agree with them.

News / Drunken Brit beats up young Polish policewoman [62]

No that wasn't an estimate those were the figures provided by the police. The link has been provided, it's only you that has rejected it because it doesn't support your world view of the Poles. 4 times more law abiding that's what the stats show.

News / Drunken Brit beats up young Polish policewoman [62]


I am sorry that the facts do not support your view of Poles as a people, but facts are facts. And what they demonstrate is that Poles are 4 times more law abiding than the natives in the UK.

News / Drunken Brit beats up young Polish policewoman [62]


I hate repeating myself: "Poles in England & Wales 4 times more law abiding than average Brit?
Latest statistics published in the Daily Telegraph and the Daily Mail show that Poles living here are overwhelmingly law abiding in comparison to the average resident of England and Wales.

Latest estimates of the number of Poles in England and Wales by the Polish Consulate are around 700,000. In 2010 the Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO) recorded that 6777 convictions in England and Wales concerned Polish citizens. On the face of it this is still a high number, but in view of the total estimate of Poles in this country, it does show that less than 1% of Poles in this country have been convicted of committing a crime in England and Wales. Or, put another way, less than one Pole in every hundred has been convicted of a crime. Considering that most of the Poles here are young and live in a land with unfamiliar customs to which many have not yet fully adjusted, this is indeed a relatively low figure.

By comparison the Home Office Statistical Bulletin, published in January 2011, stated that the total number of recorded crimes in England and Wales between October 2009 and September 2010 stands at 4,223,362. This covers roughly the same time period as the above crime statistics for Poles. The last recorded population of England and Wales stands at 52,042,000 (2001 Census) though it is probably somewhat higher now. That is equivalent to more than 7 crimes having been recorded for every 100 residents of England and Wales, i.e. one crime for every 14 persons in the country. Obviously many of the above offences would have been carried out by repeat offenders, but it would not be unfair to estimate that some 4% of the indigenous population may have committed a crime."

As for " Anything to suggest that this is not the same in reverse for Brits in Poland?" I have no idea

News / Drunken Brit beats up young Polish policewoman [62]


It should be pointed out (as was done on several previous threads), that in terms overall crime compared to the native population of Britain Poles commit less crime per capita than do the locals.

News / Drunken Brit beats up young Polish policewoman [62]


And you got that statistic from where exactly, it wouldn't happen to be the daily mail or the sun by any chance?

News / Drunken Brit beats up young Polish policewoman [62]

It's good to see that the media isn't making a meal out of this, if this was the UK and the man in question was a Pole and the woman a Brit, you can bet your life on the fact that this would make the front headline of both the Sun and the Daily Mail.

Law / British managers superior to Polish [52]


That is actually an Australian idea, that's what they in with Sydney, and it is very much an Olympic thing they don't do that for football championships anywhere in the world.


Actually involves roadworks and the like, which you seem not to like, so you can't have your cake and eat it as well.

History / Poland did reasonably well in land terms out of the postwar settlement [270]


Which offcourse explains why the Nazis went on to take the whole of Czech Rep and not only the Sudetenland. I don't recall the Brits ever saying that. However I would put it to you again that the Polish majority in Zaolzie would have preferred being under Polish administration then under the German one.

History / Poland did reasonably well in land terms out of the postwar settlement [270]


You see its not quite as simple as that, since the territory that the Poles took from the Czechs at the time (Zaolzie), had a Polish majority population which wanted to be part of the Polish state, the Czechs formed a minority in that piece of land. You can read about the history of the place here:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zaolzie

Furthermore the Czechs got this piece of land by very dubious means: " On 31 October 1918, at the dusk of World War I and the dissolution of Austria-Hungary, the majority of the area was taken over by local Polish authorities supported by armed forces.[18] The interim agreement of 2 November 1918 reflected the inability of the two national councils to come to final delimitation.[17] On 5 November 1918, the area was divided between Poland and Czechoslovakia by an interim agreement of two local self-government councils (Czech Zemský národní výbor pro Slezsko and Polish Rada Narodowa Księstwa Cieszyńskiego).[19] Before that, the majority of the area was taken over by Polish local authorities. In 1919 both councils were absorbed by the newly created and independent central governments in Prague and Warsaw. The former was not satisfied with this compromise and on 23 January 1919 invaded the area[20][21] while Poland was engaged in its war against the West Ukrainian National Republic."

And furthermore if the Poles left this bit of land with a Polish majority alone, then the Germans would have taken it anyway, and I am sure that the locals would have much preferred to be under Polish control.

History / Poland did reasonably well in land terms out of the postwar settlement [270]

I understand you now, I thought you were referring to the whole historical period. Yes in the early middle ages Poland definitely absorbed a lot of German cultural influences. People (farmers, artisans, artists, tradesman etc.), and some cities subscribed to Magdenburg Law, and become members of the Hanseatic league. At one stage Krakow was a German speaking town, so it does illustrate the depth and strength of German influence on Polish culture at the time.

There was an exhibition about this not too long ago titled "Next Door. Poland – Germany. One Thousand Years of History."

History / Poland did reasonably well in land terms out of the postwar settlement [270]

hague1cmaeron:
And then you could tell as about how the enlightenment in Germany made its way east to Poland, I am sure it will make fascinating reading.


Not at all. The comment was a bit tongue in cheek though, because nothing like that actually happened, since Prussia together with its other neighbors prevented the only real force for enlightenment in the region from coming to fruition. Namely the 3 May Constitution and the reforms that proceeded it, same goes for religious toleration and early forms of democratic governance,

History / Poland did reasonably well in land terms out of the postwar settlement [270]


It's great to have somebody as educated as yourself on this forum. Though I would be fascinated to hear how this 'advanced culture' moved to Poland from its western neighbor (Germany -I use the word as a shorthand for a bunch of states because no such country existed at the time of course), especially in regards to religious toleration and the movement away from despotism to the democratic form of governance, in which the king was no longer seen as having a divine mandate to rule?

And then you could tell as about how the enlightenment in Germany made its way east to Poland, I am sure it will make fascinating reading.

History / Poland did reasonably well in land terms out of the postwar settlement [270]


The land that Poland gained is the west is less fertile than the land that they lost in the Ukraine. The soil in the Ukraine is more productive because it is less sandy in substance.

As for the east of Poland as a whole and its underdeveloped state in comparison to the west, that is in large measure explained by that the fact that the eastern front in WWI just happened to be in today's eastern Poland and a bit of today's western Ukraine and Belarus. They also took most of the brunt in WWII.

Oh and lets not forget the Bolsheviks after the 1st war.


Actually the Hungarians don't have it that bad, they have far more land to go around than the Poles, in therms of population:
Poland: Density 120/km2 (83rd)
Hungary: Density 107.2/km2 (94th)

Plus Hungary is far more fertile than Poland.

News / Should countries be boycotted for offending Poles? [60]


That's just completely untrue. Just because that number is endlessly repeated by bigots and morons does not make it true, it's not even half that number.

Last time I looked at the Polish population number it was around 38.5 million which was the same it was some 10 years ago, so where did those supposedly 3 million go? Or where did the Poles come from to plug this exodus? I am surprised that people can repeat such crap without looking at the stats, it seems to me that they know what the stats are, but are simply driven by an inner racism that they are to ashamed to admit to.

Work / 22 yo white American studying abroad in Poland, looking for some information. [11]


If you think that is the case, you should take a walk on Friday or Saturday afternoon in old town Warsaw and your eyes will pop out your head. I don't know if it's just me me but Krakovians look decidedly average in comparison to Varsavians. And this is coming from somebody who was born in Malopolska.

History / Lech Kaczynski - was he a good leader? [88]


You have a short memory, have you forgotten that he pardoned his son in law's crooked business partner.

and what about the minister for sport Lipinski or Lipski?

History / Slavic vs Germanic thinking.... and the philosophical differences [251]

I love highlander folk, but I can't dance and am to shy to sing):

History / Slavic vs Germanic thinking.... and the philosophical differences [251]

No. Although that would have been a sufficient justification(:

I am 1/2 Polish highlander, and 1/2 Silesian.

History / Would you classify the Poland's Communist years as a "Soviet occupation" ? [221]

Off topic hypothetical.

History / Would you classify the Poland's Communist years as a "Soviet occupation" ? [221]


There was no opposition because it was eliminated by the same said occupying army, whilst the other half wasn't allowed to return home. The Germans on the other hand were allowed to elect who they wanted.


The Poles were not responsible for the war-news flesh.

History / Would you classify the Poland's Communist years as a "Soviet occupation" ? [221]

The extra 0 was indeed an accident, and not creative accounting(: The German example does not apply for the following reasons.

1. Poland was not a country with a tainted history and a guilty conscience, who was happy to seek salvation in a foreign power.
2. The troops on German soil were representatives of democratic nations with idealist intentions. what is more those very same troops guaranteed German freedom by protecting them from the red hordes.

So what the German people thought is neither here of there, it doesn't come into consideration as the situation is simply not applicable. I am sure you know that.

History / Slavic vs Germanic thinking.... and the philosophical differences [251]

Personally I think that a Germano-Polish/slavic mix is a good one.

History / Would you classify the Poland's Communist years as a "Soviet occupation" ? [221]


Furthermore to take this point further if a 1000000 Russian troops were to turn up on British soil, and did not leave but stationed themselves permanently, I think that the vast majority of reasonable minded and rational Brits would consider themselves occupied.

History / Would you classify the Poland's Communist years as a "Soviet occupation" ? [221]


India was a British colony with 1 British administrator for several thousand Indians. So the above statistic is just plain silly.
100000 unwanted Russian troops on Polish soil who could not be removed without the soviet say so, means that it was an occupation. what is written on paper doesn't necessarily reflect reality.

Australia / Student from Poland wants to get to Australia [10]

Well I was in Poland In June for a month, and i guess i liked it enough to want to come back again, family was one of the reasons. I enjoyed the atmosphere of Warsaw and Gdnask, and enjoyed Krakow. There is no doubt that Poland is at a very dynamic stage of development, and when the financial crisis comes to an end it will probably leave other countries in its wake, in terms of economic growth. I would still require a reasonably good plan to get started even though my mum lives there, I probably wouldn't be prepared to just up sticks and leave, I am very cautious by nature though.

Australia / Student from Poland wants to get to Australia [10]

That's quite interesting. I live in Adelaide and have thought about the Polish option as well, I am actually visiting in December.