History / Polish hatred towards Jews... [1290]

Great post, M-G!

Pity it probably won't work for long, as usual...

History / Polish hatred towards Jews... [1290]


I meant the comments online. I don't think any respected newspaper would print openly racist articles.

As for Yitzchak Shamir - he later apologized and said that he knew many good Poles, but one has to search very hard to find out about this, so not many people know about it.

Also Israel backed Poland's request for the change of Auschwitz' name, which is a nice gesture but again - not many people on either side know or care.

History / Polish hatred towards Jews... [1290]

yehudi

I would have agreed with that. But when I think about prime minister of Israel saying that I sucked antisemitism with my mother's milk or about WJC criticizing Poland's request to change the name of Auschwitz because they believe that Poles share responsibility for it just because they knew about it's existance (and even claim that guards were Polish!), when I search 'Poland' on the websites of most prominent Jewish press to find antisemitism mentioned in virtually every article coupled with comments wishing for Poland to be eradicated, or when I simply type 'Poles and Jews' in google browser and read the matches - that's when I suddenly feel very, very bitter and I can't blame others for feeling the same. It's very hard to be indifferent after reading hundreds of negative comments about one's nation, wouldn't you agree? There are of course people here who are simply antisemites 'just because' but mostly there are people who are probably as bitter and disillusioned and overwhelmed with the feeling of being unjustly hated and attacked - as you probably feel when reading so many comments critical of Jews here.

Which is why I think that all long discussions about Jews should be deleted so as not to encourage new ones.

History / Polish hatred towards Jews... [1290]

You're breaking my heart, MG! ;)

Life / Polish stereotypes of other nationalities!? [472]

BB
Well, he was asking about sterotypes. I, for one, consider Michael Kessler quite interesting. And you.

Life / Polish stereotypes of other nationalities!? [472]

- Educated
- Rich
- Neat
- Perfectionists
- Arrogant
- Boring
- Hate Poles with a passion
- Look down on everything that lives in the East
- Secretely dream of taking over the world

Life / Is Poland a safe country for people of color? [241]

Is Poland a safe country for people of color?

No. We eat their babies.

History / Polish hatred towards Jews... [1290]

Oh, no... Not another Jewish thread! Since you're new here, BrutalButcher, please remember three things:
1) Despite this forum being called 'Polish Forums' barely anyone here is really Polish. Don't assume that every opinion expressed here is an opinion written by a Pole.

2) Don't assume that everything written here is a reflection of how things look like in Poland.
3) Poland is a country just like any other, including your own. There are people who hate Jews, people who like them and a whole lot of people who simply don't give a damn. So instead of asking 'Why Poles don't believe in Santa' you should ask individual members 'Why don't YOU believe in Santa'

History / WAS KATYŃ GENOCIDE? Polish officers were killed [237]


And I'm not from Jedwabne. If you feel fine applying collective guilt to Poles than you can't oppose applying collective guilt to Jews.


You're joking right? Reread your last two posts, please.


So do I. Which is why your last two posts, not objective at all, pissed me off and I wrote an emotional reply with which I hoped to force you to rethink your choice of words.


How ironic. Last time I protested against antisemitism in someone's message they said that I suck Jewish ***** and YOU agreed with them. Or could it be that you immidiately forget all your messages after posting them? As for people like joe pilsudski or cenowski - well, I just ignore all their comments. There is no debate with these people, nothing will change their views or stop them from posting them.

History / WAS KATYŃ GENOCIDE? Polish officers were killed [237]


Now I lost all respect for you. In our previous discussion you seemed to be at least trying to be objective but here you are just being an offensive *******.

If that is how you want to speak then I'll speak to you in your own words:
"Jews" DID NOT suffer more than "Poles".
In fact, "Jews" did not suffer more or less that anybody.
Wanna know why? Because not all Jews went through the same experience.

Let me explain: I got interested in events in Wolyn a few months back and started reading survivors' accounts. One man recalled how he, as a ten year old boy, survived a massacre only because pieces of his mother's brain covered a side of his face. He was lying down next to the bodies of his family mambers and other Poles from his village and since he was not moving and covered in brain tissue the Ukrainians thought that he was dead so they didn't finish him off. But he didn't know whether they're still around so he had to lay there until the evening came and then go into the forest. He had to get out of Wolyn somehow, walking for weeks through the forest in an unknown direction, unable to ask for help because the majority of Poles were either dead or fled and he couldn't ask a Ukrainian for help since he didn't know who would help him and who would kill him. Even as he made it to relative safety, it's not like he had anywhere to go, it's not like random stragers would take him in and care for him.

Call me an antisemite but in my opinion this boy suffered MUCH MORE than, let's say - a blond Jewish child who passed as a Pole, taken care of by a Polish family. That kind of child surely suffered fear and sadness for the loss of their family, but if you seriously claim that it was worse than crawling through the forest in the middle of the night covered in your mother's brain tissue then perhaps it is you who should be 'put to prison' for that.

I have to agree here with Adam Michnik, a Polish Jew, on this - although certainly statistically the majority of of Jews suffered relatively more that a majority of Poles, Jews seem to have this weird - let me quote him - "'triumphalism of pain': which means that only we, the Jews, have the right to pain, only we have the right to be the object of compassion as sufferers."

If you truly want to be seen as pioneers in pain, even some sort of symbol of suffering, whether it be genocide, WWII, racism or persecution then that means it is your DUTY and OBLIGATION to remember ALL victims of suffering instead of suggesting that talking about them should be punished by law. Especially since relatively Gypsies had it even harder - they stood out more, the classification was even more strict than for Jews and there was no heroic rescue of Gypsies.

And who remembers this now? Oh sure - people remember about Gypsies. As in: they write long thick books about the suffering of Jews and somewhere inside they add a passege 'Other victims included Gypsies, homosexuals, handicapped...". Anne Frank and Oskar Schindler are names famous internationally. Tell me one name of a Gypsy Holocaust victim or their rescuer.

And by the way: When was the last you took a homeless person to your house MareGaea, even though you would not be executed for that? When was the last time you donated a penny for children in Africa who starve to death no less painfully than did Jewish children in Ghettos or Polish children outside them? How dare you pass jugdement on people who desperately tried to survive themselves and somehow find time and will to help disliked neighbours who barely spoke their language and put their families to danger, whereas you yourself live comfortably while helping... pretty much nobody? How dare you?

Furthermore, if you say that Poles merrily murdered Jews then I can say that Jews merrily murder Palestinians - in much bigger numbers not to mention to this day on!

Jews say 'never Again' and yet they don't mean anything by it. Israel has a quota for the number of refugees from places like Darfur or Cambodia. That's a very selective 'Never Again'...

History / WAS KATYŃ GENOCIDE? Polish officers were killed [237]

Katyń itself was definitely not a genocide. Genocide is what Stalin did with Soviet Poles two years before the start of WWII.

History / WOULD EUROPE BE SAFER IF ŚLĄSK, SCOTLAND ET AL WERE FREE? [22]

Scotland and Wales are one thing, but do you honestly think that Silesia has any chance for an independance?
Free Silesia would mean huge economical difficulties for both Poland AND Silesia. Both countries would loose a lot and small countries with weak economy become dependent on bigger nations and loose importance on the World Stage. Furthermore, at least 50% of people living in Silesia are Poles, so the national language could never be declared Silesian because the Polish half would become enraged and, knowing our national character, they would carry on with uprisings - which obviously would be encouraged and supported by Poland, while Silesia would get no help from anybody. Given that Silesia would have no army, there would be no way of suppressing the uprisings and so Poles would have won and Silesia would go back to Poland where Silesians would certainly find themlesves in DEEP ****.

Polonia / Poland and France cultures are similar [112]

As a matter of fact, Poles formally never surrendered

Polonia / Poland and France cultures are similar [112]

Oh reaaaallly?



Now I suppose you're going to say that you didn't mean to make it sound this way, but you did - subconsciously or not, you do look down on us.

Polonia / Poland and France cultures are similar [112]


Yes, we undestand that in your opinion French=100 times superior to Poles. As a Western European you are obviously also superior to Poles, therefore your opinion certainly would be very valuable to us if only we were evolved enough to understand it. Sadly, we're still too primitive to fully undestand our inferiority so I'm afraid that you won't find anyone in this forum who would give a ****.

History / Have Poles blood on their hands? :) [496]

Harry - To tell you the truth I have no idea what was the conflict about, I just did a little wiki-fu. You said Poland was supporting the Central Powers and I was refering to that. You made it sound as if Poland was satisfied with the treaty.

adibjaber - can an allergic person donate blood? Or organs for that matter? Because I was hoping I could give my organs after my death, so I won't wake up inside the coffin or something.

History / Have Poles blood on their hands? :) [496]


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Brest-Litovsk

"In Poland, which was not mentioned in the treaty, its signing caused riots and protests, and the final withdrawal of any support for the Central Powers."

I bet someone will now digg up a an earlier betrayal by Poland. I have a strange feeling that if we continue this long enough, we will have to go through the whole millenium. I miss the times when countries were proud of their conquests.

History / Have Poles blood on their hands? :) [496]

If that was an act of stabbing in the back, then I guess you finally admit that Great Britain stabbed Poland in the back in 1945?

History / Have Poles blood on their hands? :) [496]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organization_of_Ukrainian_Nationalists#Background_and_Creation

"In contrast, the OUN accepted violence as a political tool against foreign and domestic enemies of their cause. Most of its activity was directed against Polish politicians and government representatives. Under the command of the Western Ukrainian Territorial Executive (established February 1929), the OUN carried out hundreds of acts of sabotage in Galicia and Volhynia, including a campaign of arson against Polish landowners (which helped provoke the 1930 Pacification), boycotts of state schools and Polish tobacco and liquor monopolies, dozens of expropriation attacks on government institutions to obtain funds for its activities, and some sixty assassinations."

I can't seem to recall Poles doing the same to Prussians, although who knows? The opression of Ukrainians is certainly despicable, but you actively fuelled the hate. Poland back then was a nationalist country, constantly threatened by the Soviet Union with which there was quite a big war for several years. Furthermore there was a a lot of fighting between the government parties as well. The country was on a verge of collapsing and so the problems with Ukrainians occured an the most unfavourable moment. Perhaps a dialog would have helped you more.

And by the way -


I wonder how the mass murder of Polish population helped you against German occupation? As I recall the Germans ruled in Volhynia even after all poles from there died or run away.

History / Have Poles blood on their hands? :) [496]

There are documented cases of 769 polish villages massacred by the nazis (I know of at least three massacred as a punishment for hiding Jews - possibly more, I would have to find the page) and identified 1500 places of mass killing of Poles by UPA, there were polish villages massacred by Lithuanians, Belarussians, Soviets and Soviet-allied Jews (though not many). Would you like to discuss it?

History / Have Poles blood on their hands? :) [496]

Eh, I wouldn't call myself of German descent, the situation was a bit... complicated (the grandmother of my grandmother was a GERMAN from LATVIA, she married a POLE from BELARUS and settled in RUSSIAN Poland. During war my great-grandparents and their siblings had the chance of registering themselves as Germans but they turned it down - they felt Polish. Only they stopped feeling Polish after the first few years of communist rule and decided that they're better off as Germans, aquired German citizenship and moved to West Germany. My grandparents had a looong talk over whether to do the same but in the end decided to stay)

History / Have Poles blood on their hands? :) [496]

Not for their children, and their children's children who had to move SOMEWHERE. But yes, I don't want to offend anybody (I have German ancestry and part of my family moved back to Germany during communism, so really, no hard feelings) so let me clarify - the situation was far from desparate, nevertheless it caused a lot of bitterness. Jews were not treated as harshly and such was the birth of the saying about the ownership of streets an houses.

History / Have Poles blood on their hands? :) [496]

If it makes you feel better - Prussia was a paradise compared with the opression in the Russian partition.

History / Have Poles blood on their hands? :) [496]


Well, perhaps I should have worded it differently, but my first post was not about Prussians, it was about the origins of the saying about Jews and Poles. I forgot that I'm speaking on PolishForums where even mentioning a nationality starts a flamewar.

History / Have Poles blood on their hands? :) [496]

BB have you read the whole section on achievements? It's not about whether 'there was worse' because obviously there was - during WWII. It's not about Prussians and their policy toward Poles it's about the fact that it was a policy toward Poles, not Poles and Jews, hence my statement in the beginning.

History / Have Poles blood on their hands? :) [496]

So you think it was just one guy? And all other Poles had absolutely no trouble? Why was HE bothered by the court then?

History / Have Poles blood on their hands? :) [496]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanisation_of_Poles_during_Partitions#1871_until_the_Treaty_of_Versailles

This was further strengthened by the ban on building of houses by non-Germans

and

Nevertheless, the Settlement Commission was empowered with new more powerful rights, which entitled it to force Poles to sell the land since 1908.

History / Have Poles blood on their hands? :) [496]


It's not about citizenship, it's about the houses, the f*cking houses, I'm talking about all the time. Property!

History / Have Poles blood on their hands? :) [496]

God, Theother, I would have thought you were smarter than Bratwurst 'What do Poles need houses for, anyway?' Boy. It was not just that one guy. ALL Poles were only allowed to own the land, NOT the houses. Don't you think it's unfair?

BB - obviously the policy was not the same for the 123 years of partions, BUT by this time thousands of houses were taken away and never given back.

History / Have Poles blood on their hands? :) [496]


No, it was not brutal and therefore perfectly ok. Poles should have all lived in vans, that's their proper place.