Genealogy / Stanislaw (Jan) Czternastek & Bronislaw Wydrowski - searching info on Polish War Pilots [45]


Take it easy, Bernie ;) The moderator wrote that Andrzejewski doesn't have an e-mail address, he writes only traditional letters. In his previous comment he wrote that he "talked" to Andrzejewski so he must have talked to him by phone.

The moderator also proposed to continue the conversation by PM or e-mail.
So what would you like me to write to him? I could ask him whether Andrzejewski gave him the contact info to that nephew and if he didn't then maybe I'll ask him to pass on this info to us from Andrzejewski? OK?

History / Polish - Scottish history - which part of Krakow did Scots settle? [4]

I don't know, I've tried googling it, but the only thing I've found out was that there's a district in Gdańsk called Nowe Szkoty (New Scots) ;) There's this book, however, "Wielka Imigracja. Szkoci w Krakowie i Małopolsce w XVI - pierwszej połowie XVII wieku" (The Great Immigration. Scots in Cracow and Lesser Poland in the 16th and the first half of 17th century) by Waldemar Kowalski:

ujk.edu.pl/wyd/poz/szkoci.htm

One can buy it here, I guess:
ksiazkihistoryczne.pl/historia-polski-xvi-xviii-w-wielka-imigracja-szkoci-w-krakowie/p,362091

Or on allegro.pl.

There's also a general book in English - maybe there's something there too:
cosmopolitanreview.com/scotland-and-poland-historical-encounters

(Btw, I had no idea that a Scot was a (four-term) mayor of Warsaw :)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Chalmers_%28mayor_of_Warsaw%29

Genealogy / Stanislaw (Jan) Czternastek & Bronislaw Wydrowski - searching info on Polish War Pilots [45]


Bernie, you wrote to me once that you tried to contact him before and you didn't get a reply so I suspect you've got the wrong e-mail address.

I've asked the guy on that forum to give Andrzejewski's e-mail address if he has any :)

Genealogy / Stanislaw (Jan) Czternastek & Bronislaw Wydrowski - searching info on Polish War Pilots [45]

This is my translation of what's written in that comment:

"I just talked to Zenon Andrzejewski and unfortunately no one has contacted him concerning Stanisław Czternastek. For over a year and a half there has been an article in GAP about this pilot.

As far as I know there is some controversy concerning where the crash took place.
A brother of Stanisław lived in Przemyśl, but unfortunately died in 2006 r. His son is alive though, but it isn't known where he lives?!

Best regards"

Genealogy / Stanislaw (Jan) Czternastek & Bronislaw Wydrowski - searching info on Polish War Pilots [45]

Oh wow, that's great :D


No, I saw it only after you wrote about it here on PF, unfortunately (I'm sorry I'm replying only now, but I haven't had much time for PF lately).


Of course, I will gladly do that :), it's just I'm quite busy atm and I can't promise I'll pass on your questions right away (but I'll try).

For now I wrote a reply on that website and I've given him your e-mail adress both on the site and in a private message - I hope he'll visit that forum again...

Genealogy / Kukarskij Nicholas - moved from Poland to Ekaterinburg at the beginning of the 20th century. Help to find out! [4]


Maybe try to contact one of the Polish consulates in Ukraine to find out something.
Here are phone numbers and e-mail addresses:
luck.msz.gov.pl/pl/konsulat/ambasada_i_konsulaty_rp_na_ukrainie

Looks like for Donieck district one should contact consulate in Kharkiv:
charkow.msz.gov.pl/pl/konsulat/kontakt/kontakt1;jsessionid=7330754DD3A8B5E61C09596B7DD5FFC9.cmsap2p


I don't know much about those things but I suspect you would need more than a photo - probably some kind of documents, like birth certificate of your grandfather or at least his adoption papers (if there were any at all being issued during the revolution). It probably would be also good to find out where his father Nicholas ("Mikołaj" in Polish) or his mother was born in Poland, so you would have some kind of document connected to his biological parents, like birth certificate or baptism certificate or marriage certificate, I suspect.

Btw, how did you find out about your family history if the only thing you have is your grandfather's photo?
Do you have any old family letters or something?

Btw, maybe you could find some useful information on this forum (it's in Russian):
rosjanie.pl/forum/viewforum.php?f=4&sid=ba992a61489137fcea9567f0a93c5d07

Genealogy / Kukarskij Nicholas - moved from Poland to Ekaterinburg at the beginning of the 20th century. Help to find out! [4]

If you could prove it somehow, if you have any documents confirming this, I think you would be eligible for evacuation to Poland (if you're interested).


It looks like there are people with surname Kukarski all over the world, but I found only one person with this surname on moikrewni.pl in Poland: moikrewni.pl/mapa/kompletny/kukarski.html

This person lives in Gliwice.
Do you know where Nicholas Kukarski was born in Poland - what city, town, village?
Btw, there are a lot of people with surname Kucharski in Poland:
moikrewni.pl/mapa/kompletny/kucharski.html


Here is a Ukrainian student from Crimea talking about life in Poland: youtube.com/watch?v=fXlg__EpMn0

You should check out her Youtube channel - she has lots of films about life in Poland and learning Polish language:
youtube.com/watch?v=W3QMr_CNDTM

Good luck and stay safe...
(if you have any questions then don't hesitate and ask away)

Love / Addressing your Polish in-laws or boy/girlfriend's parents? [49]


;D

I've wasted all that time to explain to you that you aren't putting yourself in a position of obedience when addressing your in-laws by "pan/pani". I don't know, maybe you have some kind of chip on your shoulder and that's why you're demonizing a simple social convention.

Although I must say that it's not the first time on this forum when a Westerner interprets something innocent or neutral in a Polish behaviour as wrong, not correct, not the way it should be :)

The thing is, I've lived here all my life and I probably know more about social conventions here and understand nuances of those conventions better than some of the foreigners living here. And that's why I can explain things to you. Of course, if you don't want to learn and prefer to live with your prejudices then that's your choice...

And, again, what would you do in Japan? You wrote that "putting yourself in a position where you, by using just language, put yourself in a position of obedience" has nothing to do with being in a different country with a different culture and a different language. What do you mean by that? Bowing in Japan has everything to do with it being a different country, a different culture. It goes as far as being expressed in a physical action of bowing. It seems everything is wrong with Poles but I've never seen a Westerner telling the Japanese off for their culture of bowing. After all, why would they, it's such a cool culture and Japanese people are so polite and when Westerners go to Japan they bow like mad and take their shoes off eagerly, etc. right?

Well, read this: japaneseruleof7/how-to-bow-like-a-japanese


It has everything to do with Japan being a different country with different culture, customs, social conventions.


Are they? :) Where are your counterarguments then?


If you see a "pile of nothing" there, then you're blind (unfortunately).

Love / Addressing your Polish in-laws or boy/girlfriend's parents? [49]


Smurf and others who have problems with understanding such a basic thing - please understand that here is a different country with a different culture and a different language and some things may work differently than in your country, your culture and your language.

It doesn't mean that your way is good and ours is bad, it's just means it's different.
Learn some tolerance, ffs.

I've read many times on this forum from British/American people how rude Poles are because they don't say "please" when they ask for salt at the table, or the Polish cashiers are rude because they don't grin at you and don't ask you how your day was and don't chat with you while other people are waiting behind you, or Poles are "too abrupt", etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

Well, in Polish language addressing a stranger as "you" is considered rude. It doesn't have anything to do with authority.
In Polish we don't have to say "please" every time we ask for something because in Polish language there are other ways to sound polite like saying "Could you...", for example ("Czy mógłbyś podać mi sól?") or just the tone of your voice. If someone is saying to you: "Kochanie, podaj sól" ("Sweetie, pass the salt") then for a Pole there will be nothing rude in this.

In Poland there is no other way to call your in-laws at the beginning. If the in-laws are very easygoing and just have such character then you won't feel awkward calling them by their names, but it would be rude and awkward to do it without their encouragement, imho.

My brother got married in May this year and up to that point his fiancée was addressing my dad and my mum as "pan" and "pani". It doesn't have anything to do with religion because both my brother and his wife are completely atheistic (although they are decorating their own Christmas tree at their place and are giving presents on Christmas so go figure lol). They're coming to my parents for a dinner every month, my parents are very friendly and the atmosphere at those dinners is very relaxed but it would feel simply akward if she was calling them by their names, since they're much older than she is. The last time I attended such dinner I haven't noticed her calling them anything so it must be stage 2: "Not calling your in-laws anything" lol The stage 3 will be calling them "mum" and "dad", but I think it will take all three of them a while before this happens. I'm sure my parents will be happy when it does happen. Both my grandma and my mum were already happy when my brother's wife said that they were at "grandma's place" after she and my brother went to my grandma at the countryside. So it goes both ways, but it must take some time so it wouldn't feel awkward.

I think I remember my uncle was calling my late grandma by a diminutive of her name but he didn't marry my aunt so I guess he couldn't really call her "mum" (although maybe he did, I don't remember). But he called her "Marysiu" or "Marysieńko" and not "Marysia". And he was not young himself already at that time.

Also, one of my aunts is "forever young at heart" and she demanded that we call her by her name and not "auntie". I've noticed her children are also calling her often by her name (the same with their dad). It's weird for me, I always call my mum "mum" and my dad "dad", but that's me and I would never say that my way is good and my aunt's way is bad.


I don't know where you got it from that in-laws calling you by your name is a sign of disrespect o_O If your in-laws were calling you "pan" or "pani", it would mean they're either really stuck-up or they dislike you a lot... lol It seems to me you don't get it how it works in Poland...

The "titles" are dropped after some time and people are usually calling their in-laws "mum" and "dad". If even after a really long time the in-laws insist on being called "pan", "pani" then it's a sign there's something wrong with your relationship with your in-laws.

If you think that by calling your in-laws "pan" and "pani" they're getting respect and you don't if they're calling you by your name then I'm sorry but you're simply wrong. It's more about getting used to each other and accepting each other as members of the same family. When both parties will be ready then they will get to the stage 3 - calling in-laws "mum" and "dad". That's how it usually works in Poland.

Honestly, smurf, I don't know how you would survive in Japan lol My friend who graduated from Japanese studies said that she wouldn't be able to marry a Japanese guy because, as she said, they bow even when they talk to their bosses through a phone. That's different culture for you. You may not like some aspects of it, but don't expect the autochthons of a given country to change their ways, their culture only because some foreigner doesn't like it.

Of course, we've been raised to use "pan/pani", just like the British have been raised to be overly (in Polish view, for example) polite. You may find "pan/pani" too formal and we may find "you" too familiar. You may find Poles too abrupt, Italians or Greeks - too loud, and we may find the British way of speaking with all those "please" and "would you be so kind" unnecessary, irritating and maybe even servile.

If someone really wants then one can ask in-laws to be called by their name, but I think the general rule when living in a foreign country is "when in Rome, do as the Romans do". If I were living in the UK I would most probably use all those redundant "would you be so kind" etc., because that's, let's say, the British way and I wouldn't like to be impolite.

OK?


Then you're wrong. *sigh*

Seriously, the arrogance and ignorance of some of the Westerners here is bewildering for me. Not everything has to be the way it is in your country! Grow up, people, and learn to accept other cultures. It's not like we're stoning people by calling them "pan/pani" lol

News / €80 billion for Poland new EU budget [166]


Plenty of those "ghost airports" in Spain and some in other countries:

europeanvoice.com/article/eu-wasted-money-on-new-airports-say-auditors/

"While all of the airports in Spain and Greece were found to not have delivered value for money, the airports in Italy, Poland and Estonia fared much better in the audit. Airports in Gdansk and Rzeszow, in Poland, and airports in Tallinn and Tartu, in Estonia, were found to have demonstrated need and delivered results. In Italy a new airport in Alghero, Sardinia, had delivered value for money. Infrastructure investment in Catania, Comiso, Crotone and Naples had mixed results."

History / History of European and Poland's anti-semitism [192]


No Catholic country had 3 million Jews and definitely no Catholic country was forced by an occupier to accommodate the Jews thrown out from the occupier's country (tsarist Russia):

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pale_of_Settlement

Such unnatural concentration of people from one ethnicity, religion, culture, probably quite often even not knowing Polish language created tensions in overpopulated towns (Jews for some time weren't allowed to settle in the countryside) and brought poverty and antagonisms in already poor and undeveloped Russian partition (this part of Poland is still called "Poland B" nowadays, since it's still poorer and more undeveloped than "Poland A").


Some did, some didn't.


All of them?
I remember reading an article in a Polish newspaper "Gazeta Wyborcza" - I think it was an interview with Simcha Rathajzer-Rotem aka "Kazik", who came to Poland from Israel to take part in the commemoration of the 70th anniversary of the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising (he's one of the three still alive participants of the uprising). He (if I remember right) was saying that the greatest chances of surviving usually had those Jews who not only knew Polish language, but also spoke it without accent and who had Polish friends - in other words, as we would call it nowadays, those who integrated. If you watched an interview with Władysław Szpilman (the protagonist of Roman Polański film "The Pianist") you would know he was one of such Jews.

It would clearly mean that there were those who didn't speak Polish. Not really surprising considering how big Jewish communities were in some places.

I also vaguely remember a young Jewish character from one of the Polish novels that are (or were when I was going to highschool) part of compulsory reading for Polish classes (the author was probably Żeromski or Prus perhaps, I don't remember) - through this character, if I remember correctly, apparently the dilemma of young Jewish people was presented - to assimilate or not to assimilate into the Polish society.

The reason for this dilemma is pretty clear for most Polish people, I imagine.

Patrycja, I think you're either rather ignorant or you aren't Polish... o_O


Where are you from?


surviving the Holocaust, of course

Po polsku / Witam vs witaj - trochę o mnie (i mam pytanie) [5]

"Witam" i "witaj" basically mean the same ("Greetings!/Welcome!/Hello!").

The literal meaning would be for "Witam" - "I'm greeting/welcoming" and for "Witaj" - "Be greeted/welcomed" ("You are greeted, welcomed").

Thus it's important in case of "Witam" how many people are saying this, whether you're saying this only on your behalf or also on other people's behalf.

Witam - I'm greeting
Witamy - We're greeting

In case of "Witaj" on the other hand it's important whether you're addressing one person or more than one person.
"Witaj" - when greeting one person
"Witajcie" - when greeting more than on person

Also, I would say that "Witaj/Witajcie" is less likely to be used as "Hello" as opposite to "Witam", it's as if more about welcoming someone whether in real life or, for example, a new member of an internet forum.

If I were to write an e-mail to a stranger I would write "Witam" as "Hello".


Btw, usually when you write such a post on an internet forum you adress people in plural (all people on the forum) so it should be "rozumiecie".

Polonia / Working with a Polish Passport or a British passport in Abu Dhabi? [7]


Wow... I had no idea... I guess one can learn something new every day about how f*cked up this world can be... And I thought nothing can surprise me anymore lol I guess I was wrong...

History / Are Poles grateful to the Russians for winning the war? [120]


All kinds of trolls claim all kinds of things on this forum. I don't believe any of it anymore and I judge their nationality by what they write.

And judging by what z0ltan has written he's a Russian nationalist.

Also, Zoltan is a name of a Hungarian prince and one of the characters in a Polish game "The Witcher" and this game seems to be very popular among Russian men, as far as I've noticed.

I don't see any clues leading to India though :)


Are there? I guess you could also find "some truths" in comments of an anti-Semite or a racist, but I don't care about such "truths", to be honest.

History / Are Poles grateful to the Russians for winning the war? [120]


Yes, of course, just like Ukrainians, Estonians, Lithuanians, Latvians, Georgians, Romanians, Chechens, etc. - all of them have this "rabid" and especially "inexplicable" (lol) what you call "hate" to those "superior" Russians and their "friendly, nice, warm and fuzzy, white and fluffy neighbour" Russia :)


I'm sorry z0ltan but cherishing democracy, freedom of media and human rights as well as respecting borders of neighbouring countries isn't exactly "hiding our Slavic roots" :)


I agree, z0ltan is some sad (and funny in a way) Russian troll lol

UK, Ireland / Pakis VS Poles in the UK [62]


Sure, I had the "pleasure" of experiencing those "manners" here on PF - calling Poland "POOPLAND", Polish women "sluts", etc. and let's not forget "coolzero" who called me "madam" in public on the forum and "roadside b1tch, Polish b1tch, stupid b1tch, ugly Kurwa" in private messages, sending me photos of naked women, memes offending me as a woman and a Catholic and asking me to tell him where I live in Poland so he could do things with his penis to my "ass" and my "twat".

(I wouldn't be surprised if it's you anyway)

Work / Finding English teaching jobs in Poland [19]

I don't know if you guys realise that but after 1945 Poles who were thrown out from Eastern Borderlands (Kresy Wschodnie - the territories that nowadays lie in western Ukraine, western Belarus and eastern Lithuania) were settled in Silesia. There's even a very popular Polish classic comedy about two such families who had to move to "Regained Territories" (in the film they have a characteristic accent from Kresy): en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sami_swoi


Yeah, me too. Although it wasn't that remarkable for me - I've heard long ago that Germans usually don't know much English. Maybe that's because they dub everything?

Life / Questions about Polish names Pola, Gracja, and Grażyna [29]


lol Yes, it reminds me of her/him too xD (btw, Genowefa Pigwa is wearing traditional folk clothes from my region lol)

NoaSew, under no circumstances name your child "Genowefa" xD Poles consider this name as ugly and most likely funny ;)
Felicja, on the other hand, sounds nice and I wouldn't say people are making jokes about this name, although it isn't a common first name.

Life / What should a foreigner do when invited to join Christmas dinner with his Polish-friend's family? [21]


I agree.


Yes, I think DominicB is right.


Yup :)

Life / What should a foreigner do when invited to join Christmas dinner with his Polish-friend's family? [21]


Don't be nervous, Poles invite people from outside their family to Christmas Eve supper and I'm sure your friend asked his parents/the hosts whether he can invite you (of course, it is a family thing and the people who are being invited probably aren't just any people, so you may feel honoured by such invitation, I guess :)).

The only awkward, confusing moment for you may be during breaking the opłatek (Christmas wafer):

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_wafer

If your friend's family is celebrating this tradition then it will probably happen at the beginning. Everyone will get one Christmas wafer and they will be breaking them with each other and exchanging wishes (while standing) before the supper. If you get one then people will come up to you (one person at a time) and wish you stuff like good health and fortune, etc. and while they're giving their wishes you should break off a bit or a few bits of their Christmas wafer (they will be holding it in front of you). And then (at least if you know some Polish, I guess :)) it will be your turn to give your wishes and they will be breaking off bits of your Christmas wafer (so offer it to them like they did with their wafers). Btw, take only white wafers, those blue, pink or yellow ones are for animals (if the family has pets). You usually eat those bits of wafer after you finish the breaking of the wafer with one person and then you move along to another person.

If giving wishes is over and you're still left with some wafer then eat it or put it on your plate (don't throw it away into the dustbin or sth).

The breaking of the Christmas wafer isn't a religious ceremony or anything, it's more of a family tradition nowadays but the wafers are baked in the same way as Hostia (sacramental bread used during Mass) and breaking of Christmas wafers has its roots in old Christian traditions so if you have a problem with taking part in it you can simply tell your friend beforehand that you'd like to be excluded from this.

If the family is more religious someone may read a fragment from the Bible and after that the eating starts and that's basically it :) According to the tradition there should be 12 dishes and in theory everyone should try at least a bit of each dish. But that's just theory - I usually don't eat each and every dish, mostly only those I like ;) (you can ask your friend which are the most edible ones, or if you want to be more polite - which ones are his favourite :)) If the host asks you about the food then it would be probably better to say that everything is very tasty ;)

Btw, in my family we start the Christmas Eve supper when the first star shows on the sky (if it isn't cloudy, that is :)).



It probably depends on the family.


Yup.


Another option could be one of those hand painted Christmas bulbs (usually a bulb holder is included), I guess. But I don't think it's really necessary to give gifts to other members of the family (except for the hosts).

Life / Kissing on the cheek in Poland. Lips for lovers only? [39]


Finally! I thought I was the only one who noticed it... lol

Law / how to get marriage with polish girl with non-EU [28]


So now you're implying that English women are stupid? lol Well, keep digging that hole and I'll just watch... :)

Law / how to get marriage with polish girl with non-EU [28]


Haha, yes, indeed... I could easily observe this on this forum too - when I first registered on PF there was a paean after a paean about Polish women coming from British men lol Even their teeth were more white, they said ;D And then, after some time, the b1tching started, it turned out Polish women aren't perfect angels from heaven, but women like in any other nation lol And above all - human beings that can be both good and bad, wise and stupid, normal and crazy, etc. Oh dear... The painful disappointment ;)

Law / how to get marriage with polish girl with non-EU [28]

Ah, yes, well, what can I say... :) They all deserve to be with supermodels and plastic babes from computer games, don't they ;) I've read once that there's a difference between how men and women view their attractiveness - men usually think too highly of themselves and women the other way around - they're too critical about their looks. Maybe it has sth to do with that.

Law / how to get marriage with polish girl with non-EU [28]


There is this type of men in every nation, it seems, who think their women are the worst in the world :) They usually marry (like Wulkan) or date foreign women and b1tch about their own women ;) I've seen this with British men on this forum too. Or men going like "All women in my country/my city are no good, I can't find any good woman, what is wrong with women nowadays, am I supposed to move somewhere else?" etc. ;)


Ah, yes, I would add coolzero too - so it's "shade", "kash", "coolzero", "prakash38", etc. Probably the same person. "Shade" was also from Lahore in Pakistan (but he later deleted this info from his profile) :)

Law / how to get marriage with polish girl with non-EU [28]


Kaz, I live in Poland all my life and I've never met a Polish man soooo prejudiced against Polish women :))) I'm serious, I wouldn't trust anything he has to say about Polish women. All I've read from him are negative comments and he uses every opportunity to share his antipathy towards his female compatriots (while Polish men are mostly OK for him, apparently :)), like he's obsessed or sth.

As for "kash" - it seems to me it's the same person trolling all the time - "shade", "prakash38", etc.

Love / "going to dinner with my sis..." - approaching a Polish girl, help needed [46]


Well, then the other option could be - it wasn't just any dinner, maybe it was an important occasion for her and she didn't have time to text with you.

Btw, I've noticed the British often complain about how "blunt" Poles are. Are you British or American?


Um... Why, are you going to propose to her? ;D Just kidding :)

"Polish girls"... Jesus... Listen, I know this may be a shocker for some people, but there are all kinds of Polish girls out there - for some it may be an issue, for others - not at all.

Why, do you know she's religious or sth?

Another thing - where do you both live? The UK or USA? Is she born Polish or Polish-American? Not enough data to process lol


Well, you could try to ask her out again. Have you even asked her whether she has a boyfriend?

Love / "going to dinner with my sis..." - approaching a Polish girl, help needed [46]


I agree, I think that if she was into you she would probably propose to meet some other time (unless she's extremely shy, but it doesn't seem like it?).

You're not her boss, are you?


Maybe she's simply a nice person :)


Why?


Well, I'm Polish, but I'm not sure what does it have to do with anything, I don't think Polish people are that culturally different from the British/Americans ;)

Life / Is there a cinema/theatre named "Ivanovo" in Lodz? [5]

There was :):

geolocation.ws/v/P/43712866/kino-iwanowo-limanowskiego-200-1975/en

But now in this building there's a music club called "Dekompresja".

Btw, in my city, Kielce, there's still kino "Moskwa" ;):

kinomoskwa.pl

Genealogy / Stanislaw (Jan) Czternastek & Bronislaw Wydrowski - searching info on Polish War Pilots [45]


What about Zenon Andrzejewski, the author of "Przemyskie Orlęta 1939 r."?
Because that's the only feedback I got from that Polish forum for now - that you should contact him since he lives in Przemyśl.

I've googled him and, indeed, he's a known Przemyśl regionalist. Maybe he knows something about Czternastek's family? Or he could find out something for you, considering he's such a history buff.

I can see that his article is included in the September issue of "Nasz Przemyśl" magazine:

kultura.przemysl.pl/?url=17&info=2928&foto=17710&rok=0

Maybe the editors of this magazine have his contact info. The publisher of the magazine is Przemyskie Centrum Kultury i Nauki ZAMEK (Przemyśl Culture and Science Centre "ZAMEK"):

Przemyskie Centrum Kultury i Nauki ZAMEK
Przemyśl, Aleje XXV Polskiej Drużyny Strzeleckiej 1,
tel. 016 678 50 61
e-mail: naszprzemysl@jmprzem.com.pl

Editors' phone "shift" (they're taking calls then, I guess) is from 8 till 10 (a.m. I suspect), tel. 0 607 239 130.