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Posts by Bratwurst Boy  

Joined: 2 Apr 2007 / Male ♂ 		Last Post: 18 Jul 2025
Threads: Total: 8 / In This Archive: 2
Posts: Total: 12241 / In This Archive: 4472 		From: Berlin, Germany
Speaks Polish?: No
Interests: his helmet

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Bratwurst Boy   
4 Jan 2011
History / Polish flag over the Reichstag first? [399]

Who knows what the outcome would have been. What if the Red Army retreated only to reemerge ten times stronger a little later?

The West got nukes soon! The Soviets got them much later.
Hiroshima and Nagasaki served as a strong warning to Moscow too...

So...it could have worked! The Iron Curtain would had gone up much more further East...
Bratwurst Boy   
4 Jan 2011
History / Polish flag over the Reichstag first? [399]

I know how history did go PP! ;)

I'm just saying that from what I could gather in memoirs and biographies and witness reports from both sides, the idea to go together against the Soviets was not Pattons alone but quite farspread on the ground.

But Patton was the one most outspoken and most high up...then he died.
Bratwurst Boy   
4 Jan 2011
History / Polish flag over the Reichstag first? [399]

At the time of the conference the Red Army was three times larger than that of allied forces.

I think Patton spoke out what many thought...he wasn't alone in this. He might have been seen as dangerous because he was NOT the lone nutter.

The german army + the west material and air force would had been more than a match for the Red Army.
Bratwurst Boy   
4 Jan 2011
History / Polish flag over the Reichstag first? [399]

Alot of german soldiers believed in a soon forthcoming alliance with the West allies, many of those surrendered to them so easily because of that belief.

In some cases the surrenderd units were kept intact by the Americans with weapons and under the orders of their officers (because they hadn't been alone with these thoughts)....being ready and willing any time to go to war again.

But it didn't happen.

Several million german troops, highly motivated with the material support of the US and only fighting at one front anymore...they would had have a big chance to threw the Red Army back.

It wasn't any more to get to Moscow but at least out of Germany (and that was possible!)...who knows what would had happened if they had reached Poland...
Bratwurst Boy   
4 Jan 2011
History / Polish flag over the Reichstag first? [399]

yeah, the biggest mistake they never realized that.

Maybe some realized that Patton was dangerous with this ideas of his...people wonder till today if his demise was really an accident.

foxnews.com/story/0,2933,469688,00.html

car-accidents.com/general-patton-car-accident.html
Bratwurst Boy   
3 Jan 2011
History / Polish flag over the Reichstag first? [399]

"From the military and agricultural innovations of Frederick the Great to nineteenth-century high academic politics to Bismarck's social-security system, this magisterial and remarkably well-written history of Prussia traces back to the eighteenth century the region's surprisingly tolerant and intellectually rich culture. Clark, a Cambridge historian, suggests that the world is poorer for Prussia's absence..."

Benjamin Healy (The Atlantic )

....I miss my Prussia... I'm living in the wrong age... :(

*slinks into corner*
Bratwurst Boy   
3 Jan 2011
History / Polish flag over the Reichstag first? [399]

So BB you mean Prussia did not practice institutionalised theft, did not allow aristocratic nepotism, did not starve its factory workers, did not opress polish culture, did not invade and steal polish heritage including stuff like the Crown Jewels?

As much as did you in Ukraine...;)
Or Lithuania...

I think most people had a good life in Prussia...and since the citizens were such a mischpoke to begin with it didn't matter what ethnie you were.

Millions of Poles became Prussians over the time...

There was no anti-polonism or anti-semitism in Prussia? No it was not progressive above other western countries and it had significantly more dark sides.

Sure all existed. There are no perfect countries...

But show me an opressing country where the opressed actually go richer, have the same rights as the other citizens, and their country gets developed by the opressor....you won't find many examples!
Bratwurst Boy   
3 Jan 2011
History / Polish flag over the Reichstag first? [399]

Anyhow, why are you harboring illusion that Prussia was something progressive at times?

Illusions? The books are all out there to read ;)

amazon.com/Iron-Kingdom-Downfall-Prussia-1600-1947/dp/0674031962/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1294018070&sr=8-1

Prussia and its army were inseparable, but Prussia was also renowned for its efficient, incorruptible civil service; its innovative system of social services; its religious tolerance; and its unrivaled education system, a model for the rest of Germany and the world.

Bismarck was the first in the world who implemented welfare laws for the workers and the old....something all prussian subject, also Poles, profited from.
Bratwurst Boy   
3 Jan 2011
History / Polish flag over the Reichstag first? [399]

It failed!

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanisation_of_the_Province_of_Posen#Failure_of_the_policy

Prussia's Germanisation policies in the Province of Posen mostly failed. Although most of the administrative measures aimed against the Poles remained in force until 1918, between 1912 and 1914only four Polish-owned estates were expropriated, while at the same time Polish social organizations successfully competed with German trade organizations and even started to buy land from the Germans.

How horrible!!!! What do you think would Hitler had done?

Yeah...sure....they are both the same...

Prussia was a country with strict laws and order, for ALL Prussians...that meant also the Poles!

query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=F30C10FB3A5414728DDDAE0994D8415B818CF1D3

"Poles in Prussia - Their growing prosperity causes alarm"

As Hitler had done....
Bratwurst Boy   
3 Jan 2011
History / Polish flag over the Reichstag first? [399]

When Poland refused, Hitler put in practice Bismarck’s plans and committed mass murder in Poland."

Oh please, if Bismarck had wanted mass murdered Poles he would had done so.
Instead Poles could plan their resistance openly in their own free polish media, had their own representants in the prussian Reichstag and a growing middle class which got so wealthy and influential to make wrinkles on german nationalists foreheads as Prussia poured money and material into the provinces. An industrial development Poland should still profit from even decades later.

WHAT A MASS MURDER!

And no mass expellations either...

I wished you Poles would get a grip on your anti-prussian diatribes. Prussia was the most developed and progressive country in Europe at the time of the partitions, their education system and schools where unrivaled, in Prussia lived Protestants, Catholics, Jews, Hugenots and many others quite freely...Poles profited from that too. Many immigrated from other provinces to live and work there...must have been really horrible!

Oh wait..."Kulturkampf"...yeah, what a horrorshow. Bismarck trying to secularize the country, to losen the grip of the religious nutters on the education and official institutions. Something EVERY modern country strives for today. But then, german and polish catholics can whine together...it was a German trying to kill Bismarck for that.

What else..hmmm..wait...the horror show of trying to force a common language as official language for the country..Poland NEVER ever tried the same...of course not! One official language to be used in schools and offices...how criminal!!!
Bratwurst Boy   
3 Jan 2011
History / Polish flag over the Reichstag first? [399]

The great wise Prussian himself said:

The secret of politics? Make a good treaty with Russia.

Otto von Bismarck

Bratwurst Boy   
3 Jan 2011
News / Pole-basher Gross up to old tricks [284]

So why is Gross stopping here? When is Gross and his fellow anti-Polish bigots in the Holocaust Industry going to come out and say that Adolf Hitler was Polish?

Well...it was already hinted at some jewishness...hmmm..

;)
Bratwurst Boy   
2 Jan 2011
History / Polish flag over the Reichstag first? [399]

Can we get back to the flag, please.

Can't we tie the discussion about the polish flag to some worshipping of Prussia???

I'm in!!!
Bratwurst Boy   
2 Jan 2011
History / Lwów, Wilno ... kresy - Poland have lost enormoust part of our heritage... [389]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Comintern_Pact#cite_note-p.343-1

The Pact was to be originally introduced in late November 1935 with invitations for Britain, Italy, China and Poland to join.[2]

Hitler also made an effort to influence the Poles into joining the Anti-Comintern Pact and spoke of his intention to settle territorial disputes between Germany and Poland.[7][8][9][10][11] However, Poland refused Germany's terms, fearing that an alliance with Hitler would render Poland a German puppet state.

Well...they became a puppet state nonetheless...

Hitler's efforts to develop relations with Britain also failed. In August 1939, Germany broke the terms of the Anti-Comintern Pact when the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact was signed, making a non-aggression agreement between the Soviet Union and Germany official.

Anyway - it's only history now and as long as we learn from it (to ally ourselves with
Germany next time ;)) we'll be OK.

Well..we learned something!
Mercedes/Audi/BMW have a better chance of longterm success than Panzers! ;)
Bratwurst Boy   
2 Jan 2011
History / Lwów, Wilno ... kresy - Poland have lost enormoust part of our heritage... [389]

facts are Ribbentrop dropped a line to Beck that said Black Sea is also a sea that referred to shifting Poland eastwards, away from the Baltic and giving it Ukraine and Black Sea instead but nothing hard followed.

Because the Poles didn't reacted....

A WIN-WIN-WIN-WIN-WIN-WIN-WIN-WIN-WIN-WIN situation.

If it hadn't been for Nazis and Hitler... oh, well.

*sighs*

Now...where did I put my time machine...
Bratwurst Boy   
2 Jan 2011
History / Polish flag over the Reichstag first? [399]

Oh come on, german states and statelets if you want.

We're talking about a cultural, ethnical and civilisational entity not a political one.

Well...that acounts for sh'it if you don't have an army. YOU should know that!

We got nearly wiped out as a people, as a civilization during the 30 years (we needed more than 100 years to get back onto our feet again) war but then tables turned, Prussia started out to become one of the most impressive and successfull states and armies Europe has ever seen.

Well...and then WE did our invading and attacking...to bad!

And without the napoleonic occupation I doubt there would ever had been the unification of 1871.
Doesn't look like an agressive history to me if you ask me. As our biggest feats had always been reactions to the agressions of our dearest neighbours.

Okay...yes...there was Hitler. He was the odd one out...But he to was a reaction to the treaty of versailles more or less.
Bratwurst Boy   
2 Jan 2011
History / Polish flag over the Reichstag first? [399]

Heh:)
Especially as we only exist since 1871...

We were really at the bottom of the joke several times...at one time nearly getting wiped out.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty_Years%27_War#Casualties_and_disease
Bratwurst Boy   
2 Jan 2011
History / Lwów, Wilno ... kresy - Poland have lost enormoust part of our heritage... [389]

What do you think Hitler did before and after taking part in Pilsudksis funeral Sok?
They had been quite friendly....they surely talked! ;)

Hitler would have given up most of the claims...as Poland was leaning more to France and GB he chose to ally for the time being with the Soviets instead (and he gave up the german baltics for that)...but it could have/should have been Poland....only one enemy at the time!

Buchanan wrote a book about it: amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/030740515X/forthecause-20

There was a last ultimatum even only a few days before the war started....things would had gone differently if Poland had agreed.
Bratwurst Boy   
2 Jan 2011
History / Polish flag over the Reichstag first? [399]

For Germans yes...

But I know that some of our friendly neighbours wish the many little statelets back! ;)
Bratwurst Boy   
2 Jan 2011
History / Polish flag over the Reichstag first? [399]

Germany had always been a strong people, even during the Roman empire when the barbaric germanic tribes refused to be invaded like most of Europe.

Yeah...Arminius! What a helmet!

But we split up later after germanic law into more than 500 little statelets...each quite helpless against the big neighbouring empires.

With our low point being the 30 years war it needed a rebirth (or we would had gone down the drain for good)...first with Prussia then with Germany under prussian rule.
Bratwurst Boy   
2 Jan 2011
History / Polish flag over the Reichstag first? [399]

Some people viewed this as militaristic aggression.

Of course....because it was.
But I think there was a point where Germans stopped caring. Where was all these "agression" screamers as Germans got raped by their neighbours for centuries just because they had NOT been big, NOT been powerfull, NOT been agressive!

I don't remember any, do you?

What do you think helped the german unification at most? It had been the napoleonic occupation...Germans fighting for their freedom.

In Europe you either were a predator or you were food! Ask the Poles...
Bratwurst Boy   
2 Jan 2011
History / Polish flag over the Reichstag first? [399]

They were very militaristic and full of themselves. Thats why philosophers like Nietzsche wanted to be good Europeans above Prussians. They criticized Prussian arrogance by establishing themselves as not having a nationality.

It's because of our history....

After being the amboss and the marching ground of bigger neighbors for so long Germans had enough of it and after the disaster of the 30 years war Prussia started to build it's empire out of the brandenburgian sand without having much resources.

Better being the hammer than the amboss! The primal lesson of the near-downfall of the german people.

And we had all the reason to be full of ourselves! ;)

amazon.com/genius-war-German-general-1807-1945/dp/0133511146

A genius for war: The German army and general staff, 1807-1945

amazon.com/German-Genius-Renaissance-Scientific-Revolution/dp/0060760222

The German Genius: Europe's Third Renaissance, the Second Scientific Revolution, and the Twentieth Century

Bratwurst Boy   
2 Jan 2011
History / Polish flag over the Reichstag first? [399]

I'm not sure what you are meaning actually!
What do you know about kill ratios and losses?
What do you know about the most successfull pilots, Panzer commanders etc....?
Bratwurst Boy   
2 Jan 2011
History / Lwów, Wilno ... kresy - Poland have lost enormoust part of our heritage... [389]

Do you think there was an option to do this BB?

Secured eastern front + millions of non-hostile Poles and lots of food! Hmmm? :)

Hitler for sure thought so...he was till high in the summer '39 still willing to give up all german claims for an agreement with Warsaw!

But Poland trusted their Britain and France completely.

PS: It wouldn't had been a first. For an agreement with Stalin Hitler gave up german territory in the Baltics. Germans were forced to leave their homes for political interests....Hitler made them do that.

He would had changed the tone with Poland also very quickly would they had been more compromising.