UK, Ireland / Are you able to hear the different English accents? [97]

@Atch, of course you're right! Big difference between being a Middleton vs. a SpencerLOL

On the other hand, even in the late '70's when I was first in England, I do distinctly remember run-of-the-mill Londoners (Cockneys excluded, of course) with their bowlers and brolleys who spoke an English closer to the aristos than those today.

Seems everywhere, here in the States as well, there's a deep-seated post-60's near hatred of what is perceived as snobbery in both pronunciation and pretense! What's the big deal about having an affectation anyway??

UK, Ireland / Are you able to hear the different English accents? [97]

I always come back to the example of Joseph Conrad! A master stylist (with no detectable "foreign accent" in his writing) in a language which he didn't learn until his twenties as a seaman, by all accounts, his spoken English was so laden with Polish pronunciation to be practically incomprehensible at best.

Some people are clearly more developed in written than in oral expression, both in their native as well as their second language:-)

UK, Ireland / Are you able to hear the different English accents? [97]

If I come across slightly condescending on occasion, don't take it personally, as I don't take the barbs leveled at me by other Forum members:-)

Poles whom I know who've lived in England, find Northern English easier to understand than Londoners.

UK, Ireland / Are you able to hear the different English accents? [97]

Have you no sense of humor?

UK, Ireland / Are you able to hear the different English accents? [97]

Not sure which is more grating here. Maybe it's your unwillingness to concede my point or at least chalk it up to "an interesting observation which I simply don't share."

Hate to put words in your mouth ol' girl, but why this resistance to provocation and sarcasm? It's the spice of life. Enjoy!

UK, Ireland / Are you able to hear the different English accents? [97]

Digressions, sir, are something to which even the best of us are often subject, particularly in the heat of argument.

UK, Ireland / Are you able to hear the different English accents? [97]

My point was that listening to their speech as examples of British English reveals huge gaps. Diana spoke articulately and deliberately. The little I've heard of Kate, I'm not impressed. Even the air-headed sex pots of the '50's like Diana Doars, Marilyn Monroe and company spoke better than the run-of-the-mill high school graduate these days. As to my being incapable of framing an argument, apparently you failed to see what I was driving at in the first place-)

Maybe I just didn't make myself clear.

Back to English accents, I say again that as an American, dialect from around Somerset is the closest to an "American" accent I've heard. The flat "a's" and clearly-sounded "r's" are a far cry from Queen LizzieLOL

UK, Ireland / Are you able to hear the different English accents? [97]

Roz,

It's a question of the type/level of English to which one is exposed. Snobbish? You bet your sweet life I am, probably always will be, and bloody proud of it!

Even in the UK, with the gradual demise of RP at nearly every level of spoken language I can detect, listening to BBC etc. is painfully apparent, as compared to years back, when there was a higher general standard across the board.

Contrast Lady Diana vs. Kate Middleton, for instance. It practically hits you over the face, it's so apparent.

Travel / My Experience in Poland (compared to Germany) [100]

True, Dirk! However, there's no denying that there's also an awful lot of wiggle room within those parameters you mentioned:-)

Language / Instrumental case "To Jest " and "Jest" Need help with correcting my examples in Polish [17]

I understand now. It's merely a question of accepted conventional usage.

UK, Ireland / Are you able to hear the different English accents? [97]

You misunderstood me, roz! It's clear anywhere that the more educated, that is, better schooled, the individual, the chances are that they will have had far greater exposure to learning foreign languages as a lawyer, university lecturer, surely a trained musician, even an engineer etc. as compared with a factory worker, common laborer, janitor etc. where probably zero English is spoken or even required!

That's just basic sense.

Travel / My Experience in Poland (compared to Germany) [100]

What I simply meant was that bribery is and was common in Poland, more so perhaps during Communism, yet nonetheless alive and well as we speak!

Certainly there are honest people who eschew such corrupt practices, in Russia, Italy and elsewhere as well. The point is though that what works in business abroad, especially in former Black Market economies, also translates perfectly into American business and occurs on a daily basis.

And it obviously isn't confined to passing a small envelope sereptitiously under the table either. It may be done via "referral" aka "recommendation" from one's priest, monsignor, fellow employee etc., favors trading and that sort of thing.

:-)

UK, Ireland / Are you able to hear the different English accents? [97]

@Wulkan, I agree with you there:-)

On the other hand, younger, educated Poles often have a perceptible "English accent" with a heavy overlay of their native language, of course!
The older or less educated the Polish speaker, naturally, the heavier the accent of their first language and the greater the first-language interference in their English, as one example.

Language / Instrumental case "To Jest " and "Jest" Need help with correcting my examples in Polish [17]

Once read that "dwoch" is more colloquial. Is this correct? There's a Polish idiom "Brak mi slow!" I can only translate it into German as "Es verschlug mir die Sprache!" In English, "I'm at a loss for words!" Something like that:-)

UK, Ireland / Are you able to hear the different English accents? [97]

Welcome, OwCr!

Although not Polish, I find the Dorsetshire "dialect" the most phonlogically familiar to my ears as an American native speaker.

Travel / My Experience in Poland (compared to Germany) [100]

People, give us a break, please!! I never once said that only Poles and other Slavs bribe. The Italians are experts at that game and I mention the States, one, because I leave here, and second, because the unsavory business practices which exist elsewhere, translate into our culture fluently:-)

Don't let's quote me out of context.

Language / Instrumental case "To Jest " and "Jest" Need help with correcting my examples in Polish [17]

@igrabner, this is what I was explaining to you in my posts.

Only in German, the Instrumental has been long subsumed by other cases, for instance, the Nominative, therefore there remains again NO direct equivalent for the Instrumental and must therefore be internalized (verinnerlicht) one verb at a time:-)

Travel / My Experience in Poland (compared to Germany) [100]

Poles here in the States are definitely though black marketeers, and big time as well! Explain then why at many offices, the blacks, American-born Hispanics, Asians, and assorted non-European others, typically lose their jobs during tough times, while the Poles and Russians always seem to keep theirs, eh?

Many of the latter are in fact, as regards English skill anyway, far less qualified than the average African-American (including those from Guyana or the Caribbean!), Hispanic or Asian, but somehow, it never seems to matter.

The answer is bribery, pure and simple. During the Communist Era, if a Pole, Russian, Romanian etc. tried to be "honest" and straightforward, they wouldn't, likely couldn't survive. This is history which anyone who's studied it would already know.

@Maf
While I'm trying hard not to doubt you, if you actually accepted a bribe (then again, foreigners are exempt from certain local practices), would you be foolhardy enough to talk about it publically??!

Travel / My Experience in Poland (compared to Germany) [100]

@kaprys,

In case you haven't noticed, bribery's not exactly something we talk about, especially in public:-) One certainly can't deny its existence, since it is done, as the German puts it "unter der Hand" aka "under the table, i.e. in secret. No one comes out and announces that they just paid a kickback to get a job.

However, here as elsewhere, the Catholic Church and certain routine clerical civil service jobs seem to go together with a wink and a nod from the monsignor to the local gov't. official.

The crying pity is that you don't seem to know what goes on your own country; it's been going on there for a while, you merely never picked up on it.

Someday, you will.

In Germany, my experience is that things are generally more straightforward and above board in business.

Travel / My Experience in Poland (compared to Germany) [100]

I'm not denying that, kaprys. Then again, Germany's historical reality as the "land in the middle" has as much shaped her cultural and social experience as Poland's unfortunate role relegated to mere agricultural benefactor to the "superior" Teutonic civilization and backwater province has hers:-)

After all, we are the products of our upbringing, for better or for worse.

Law / Need residence permit in Lithuania - I'm from Poland [4]

Such things can be damned tricky, particularly when dealing with Kremlinist bureaucrats, typically used to bribing their way along! Bring along lost of hard cash (preferrably dollars), if you can!

I take it then you speak some Russian, Lithuanian being such a minority language, and English largely non-existant, except perhaps certain areas of the
hospitality industry:-)

Travel / My Experience in Poland (compared to Germany) [100]

@Alltimegreat,

Concerning your comment as to the lack of basic English ability in Poland among the negatives which you've experienced, compared with Germany, I'd hope that you would expect that a person arriving in The Federal Republic, even for a brief visit, would at least have a phrasebook knowledge of German:-))

As you know, I've lived in Germany for a while and found the average person's command of English, albeit a damned sight better than in Poland, nonetheless far from perfect!

With regard to the rest of your observations, having spent such a short time in Poland, I honestly can't evaluate the differences.

What I surely CAN say is that what you find a negative about Germans vs. Poles in the latter's ability to "joke around" more, I always cherished during my stays in Germany, precisely their degree of often deep-thinking seriousness about their life, their history, above all, their environment, contemplation tinged with a sense of moral responsibility.

But, to each his own. "Jeden das Seine und mir das Meiste" aka Different strokes for different folksLOL

Work / Can a Poland work permit holder can work in Denmark/EU? [44]

Ahem, Poland, for that matter any relatively prosperous European country, is not some dumping ground for the flotsam and jetsom from the poverty of the Third Word!!

If you wish to apply for residency in Poland, then for G_d's sake go through proper channels (and I DON'T mean the Black Market either), learn the language and make sure you're bringing at least one marketable skill to the country from which she can profit.

Otherwise, STAY HOME:-)

Work / Diary of a Teacher in Poland [181]

Attention maybe.

News / Unhinged Israeli Arrested and Charged for Knife Attack on Polish Policeman [23]

For the umpteenth time, ignoramus, what do you call medicine and algebra?? You call it "nothing" because you probably don't understand either subject:-)

Work / Diary of a Teacher in Poland [181]

I've found though in my many years of teaching that a majority of twenty-somethings well on up through late thirties are often clueless as to the irony as well the subtlety which is as natural to my lower-middle class US inner-city schooling/upbringing as drinking a glass of water!

Groucho Marx, the snappy patter of 60's TV detective shows, thrillers etc. truly seem to fall with a resounding thud on the deaf ears of both my native-born as well as even "advanced" ESLers, causing yours truly often to reduce our in-class conversations to a steady stream of baby talk, interrupted solely by the questions of those in the class who've somehow managed to remain awake:-) lol And I frequently hear the same from my department colleagues.

No question that the paucity of our English vocabulary, both here and abroad, is shockingly apparent. One only hopes that the dissemination of quality viewing and reading material can reverse this dismaying, indeed, dangerous trend.

News / Unhinged Israeli Arrested and Charged for Knife Attack on Polish Policeman [23]

So what's wrong with that?? You're just prejudiced against Arabs, no matter what they contributed:-)

Work / Diary of a Teacher in Poland [181]

Standard is, jon, I respectfully disagree:-)

News / Unhinged Israeli Arrested and Charged for Knife Attack on Polish Policeman [23]

And to think that it was Arabs like the physician Rhazes, who brought knowledge of medicine to the West aka Europe!! Then there's algebra etc

Work / Diary of a Teacher in Poland [181]

@jon, on the other hand, whereas colloquial speech surely changes, some basics are forever:-)