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Posts by TheOther  

Joined: 13 Jul 2009 / Male ♂
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Last Post: 27 Jul 2024
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TheOther   
10 Aug 2011
Genealogy / Getting records from Poland (are records of Poles moved from churches to the archives)? [21]

and gave them a 10 year time frame.

Of course they couldn't go through the records of a whole decade. Can you imagine how many children were born over ten years? The research would take weeks, if not months, and the archives are short on staff given the rising number of requests.

It would be hard to find out if was their first child or not. I probably should not focus on trying to find this out.

You have to. Otherwise you will never find the marriage record, because you don't know in what year the marriage happened and nobody in the archives would be willing to research over an undefined time frame (see above). Just give it a try. Maybe you are lucky and it was their first child. If not, ask the archive to check the previous year for another child of that couple. Go backwards until you find the first born (provided they were all born in the same parish).

But I do not know for sure because they moved, apparently, a lot of things into the archiwums.

There are certain restrictions before things like church books and civil registration records are publicly available. 100 years for birth records, if I recall correctly.

civil registration office... isn't that basically the archiwum?

No. State archives (archiwa.gov.pl/?CIDA=177) are like a libraries - collecting old documents, records and other stuff from all over the country, and making them available to the public. A civil registration office was introduced in most parts of Germany in October 1874. Some places a little earlier. From then on it was mandatory to register births, deaths and marriages, and people got married at both the church and the civil registration office. Poland continued with this practice after its independence.
TheOther   
10 Aug 2011
Genealogy / Getting records from Poland (are records of Poles moved from churches to the archives)? [21]

she said "one needs precise information".

Yes, and that is incorrect. It's enough if you know one name, the place and a rough time frame. The archives do the rest if necessary.

I have no other information but the names of the parents. Does anybody know what I do now?

Usually, one would now look for the marriage record of the parents. Was this their first child? Then go back 12 to 15 months and search for the marriage by moving forward in time until shortly before the birth date of their kid. Marriage was normally in the church closest to the residence of the bride. Once you've found the marriage record, you know the birth dates of the couple, the maiden name of the bride plus the names of their parents. Then you start all over again.

Forgot to say: you're lucky that the birth happened in 1883, because now you might be able to find detailed information about the birth and the marriage in the records of the local civil registration office. A lot more valuable than anything you'll find in the church books.
TheOther   
8 Aug 2011
Genealogy / Getting records from Poland (are records of Poles moved from churches to the archives)? [21]

Wroclaw -- ...it is always difficult to get copies of records in Poland. one needs precise information

That is incorrect, unless you deal with civil registration offices. Most Polish state archives are extremely helpful with a highly motivated staff. You can write to them in Polish, German and (sometimes) English, and they quickly send you copies of documents for a modest fee. Even research is done by the archives, in case you cannot provide detailed information. It's more expensive, but still less than you would have to shell out for a professional genealogist. The latter is a special case anyway, and many of the so-called Polish professionals in this sector are crooks. Well-known fact amongst foreign genealogists. You have to chose carefully.

The LDS web site is only a first stop to get an overview. You have to double-check every piece of information you retrieve from there, because there are countless typos and other errors in their records (mainly because the people who entered the data couldn't read the old scripts properly). Ordering the relevant films or microfiches is a must if you are a serious genealogist.

USA -- Or how far back are the records dating I can get from the archiwums? I'm talking about Silesia.

Try the EZA in Berlin for protestant church books, the Polish archives for catholic ones.
TheOther   
3 Aug 2011
History / Why did communism in Poland fail? [180]

Wroclaw Boy --- Anyway that's not the point i was trying to make.

Me neither. I was actually talking about a vacant dictators' job, not about the fancy car that comes with it... :)
TheOther   
3 Aug 2011
History / Why did communism in Poland fail? [180]

Wroclaw Boy --- but somewhere there will be a Porsche, Ferrari, £70k Mercedes or something, thats the dictators car right there.

But you wouldn't mind having one of those cars yourself, wouldn't you? ;)
TheOther   
25 Jul 2011
News / Poland's Economy Is Booming! The EU's Success Story? [711]

Sounds like good news, but I wonder where PolskieRadio got the information from. The report hasn't even been published yet.

unctad.org/Templates/Meeting.asp?intItemID=2068&lang=1&m=21579&year=2011&month=6

Quote:
"The Report is under embargo until 5 p.m. GMT on 26 July 2011"
TheOther   
23 Jul 2011
History / Defying Germaniztion in 1901 Polish boy writes 'German girls are ugly' [128]

Every territory that at some point of time was independent or belonged to a different country, but is now a part of another nation, is occupied? So East Prussia, Silesia and Pomerania are actually German (or maybe Neanderthal, depending on how far you want to go back) territories which are occupied by Poland and Russia at the moment? Oppressors, all of them... :)

Or why is Poland different once again?
TheOther   
22 Jul 2011
History / Defying Germaniztion in 1901 Polish boy writes 'German girls are ugly' [128]

Des Essientes -- Your diagnosis foolishly dismisses his patriotic feelings as a Pole in German occupied Poland.

Seriously, Des, read post #63 and then explain to me why a simple comparison of Polish and German girls by a 14 year old teenager amounts to "defying Germanization".
TheOther   
22 Jul 2011
History / Defying Germaniztion in 1901 Polish boy writes 'German girls are ugly' [128]

Des Essientes -- how can you claim to know from his remarks about German girls, which are disdainful rather than angry, that he wasn't also enraged by the forced Germanization in his school's religion classes?

How can you prove that he was enraged by the attempted Germanization? Maybe he was just pissed off because he was rejected by a German girl? The title of this thread is totally misleading.
TheOther   
22 Jul 2011
History / Defying Germaniztion in 1901 Polish boy writes 'German girls are ugly' [128]

"Niemki kochać i żyć nie umieją" means: German women don't know how to love and live.

I can't speak Polish, so thank you very much, porzeczka! Your take on the article makes much more sense than the translation by PennBoy in post #1, which seems to be totally wrong and misleading now. Hey PennBoy, did you do that on purpose to stir some sh*t?

Do you deem yourself my equal

Hell no. Shudder... :)
TheOther   
22 Jul 2011
History / Defying Germaniztion in 1901 Polish boy writes 'German girls are ugly' [128]

The real nonsense is your striving to bend your prejudices to fit reality.

When running out of arguments, accuse your opponent of being racist, prejudiced or a Nazi - happens far too often here, Ironside, that I would take it serious. What I find kind of sad though is, that we obviously cannot even have different opinions without resorting to name calling. What purpose does this forum have, if that's not possible? I for one have come to the conclusion that quite a few nationalistic Poles and people of Polish descent on PF seem to have a distorted view of history. I understand that facts might be hard to accept sometimes (given what Poland had to go through over the centuries), but at some point of time you all have to face the truth about your past.

That's it for me on this topic.
TheOther   
22 Jul 2011
History / Defying Germaniztion in 1901 Polish boy writes 'German girls are ugly' [128]

Resisting being forced to pray in German, rather than Polish, in German occupied Poland, is an obvious example proving that Poles in 1900 did indeed believe in liberty and freedom.

Too bad that they were resisting to speak the official language of the country they were part of. There was no German-occupied Poland in 1901. The country didn't exist, no matter how you put it. It was annexed and part of the German Empire, Russia and Austria-Hungary. Why is it so difficult to accept that? Doesn't fit into the picture of the heroic Polish resistance and the noble freedom fighters that roamed the land, I guess. This nationalistic nonsense is tiring.

the German decree was a real provocation

I wouldn't call it provocative, I would call it stupid. The German Empire should've given its ethnic Polish citizens more autonomy, and - who knows - maybe, just maybe history would have run its course differently.
TheOther   
21 Jul 2011
History / Defying Germaniztion in 1901 Polish boy writes 'German girls are ugly' [128]

Now, you better go to some Palestinian forum and tell them that there is no occupation from a legal standpoint,

Hey Torq ... why did I know that you show up ... ? :)))

To answer your question: do you really believe that in 1772/1795, anyone gave a rat's ass whether Poland disappeared from the map or not? How do you think the British Empire was created? By asking nicely whether they are allowed to annex a territory or not?
TheOther   
21 Jul 2011
History / Defying Germaniztion in 1901 Polish boy writes 'German girls are ugly' [128]

because children living under foreign occupation do not need no parental guidance to want to resist their oppressors

Nonsense. A child that is brought up by Polish parents will become a Pole, a child brought up by German parents will become a German. Swap kids between parents, and you will end up with the same result.

From a legal standpoint, there was no occupation. Poland as a country didn't exist, and this status quo was accepted by almost every nation in the world. Many here don't like that view, I know, but that doesn't change historical facts.

Resistance to injustice comes naturally to Poles, and to Polonia, at ages even younger than 12 years.

And you really believe that?
TheOther   
21 Jul 2011
History / Defying Germaniztion in 1901 Polish boy writes 'German girls are ugly' [128]

you think people never had illegit kids??? that no one did anything bad?

I'm a bit into genealogy, so I know that illegit children were not unusual in those days. But not for 14 year old kids.

Anyway, my main beef with the whole article is that they put the kids on a propaganda pedestal ("The unbreakable children..."). I simply don't believe that the children came up with the idea of a protest without interference from their parents. The adults used the kids for their cause, and the article should reflect that.
TheOther   
21 Jul 2011
History / Defying Germaniztion in 1901 Polish boy writes 'German girls are ugly' [128]

I have a 14 year old and I remember 14 myself.. you think they dont rebel??

The kids in question were 12 to 13 years old.

age 14 thats when teens are figuring out they have sexual feelings.

Even earlier nowadays, but I seriously doubt that this 14 year old boy had so much sexual experience with both Polish and German women that he was able to compare. Not at that age, not in the prude society of 1901, and not in a catholic community of that time. He was bragging and repeating what he heard at home.

this alone would trigger a whole classroom to revolt

Beating students at school and kids at home was the norm at that time. Again, remember that we are talking about 1901 and not 2011.
TheOther   
21 Jul 2011
History / Defying Germaniztion in 1901 Polish boy writes 'German girls are ugly' [128]

What are you going to do when you disagree with something don’t talk infront of the children?

That's why I see the title "The unbreakable children of Wrzesnia" as a very melodramatic one (rather typical for Poland, I might add). It should've been "The resistance of the parents of Wrzesnia" instead.
TheOther   
21 Jul 2011
History / Defying Germaniztion in 1901 Polish boy writes 'German girls are ugly' [128]

Indeed it was, a lack of electronic media suggests that the children were reflecting the true views of the community.

Exactly, and in this case the "true view of the community" was the view of their parents (my opinion, of course). I'm pretty sure that those 12/ 13 year old kids just repeated what they heard at home, and that they acted upon what they were told to do by their parents.
TheOther   
21 Jul 2011
History / Defying Germaniztion in 1901 Polish boy writes 'German girls are ugly' [128]

Barney, I tried to find some information about the age of the protesters in the Soweto Uprising, and came across this list:

sahistory.org.za/article/june-16-1976-casualties-south-african-history-online

Looks like many protesters were older, as I suspected.