News / "It's too late for Germany" (but not for Poland) [1798]

Foreigners work as doctors, engineers and in nursery homes. But they are not supposed to work as police officers?

News / "It's too late for Germany" (but not for Poland) [1798]

Some sheeps always vote for their butchers.

News / "It's too late for Germany" (but not for Poland) [1798]

Ghe culprit told him that he would cut her throat if he heard any noise from the tent. According to the testimony of the girl, he heard one noise and put the knife to her throat. She told him to finish and leave, which she did.


The girl claimed otherwise. She also did not cry. According to her testimony, she tried to calm her rapist down and get it over with. A remarkeabky brave woman if you ask me.


Like getting her killed?

It is easy for people to claim, removed from the situation, that he could have done something. Even with hindsight, you also do not have a clear answer. He was ordered to lie on the tent, and the culprit told him he would kill her if ge heard anything. Not much room for action there. But of course, you would have saved her... . Just like all the people who claim, that back in WWII, they would have either joined the Resistance are hidden some jews... .


That is no excuse in any case. You can always call the police nowadays.

News / "It's too late for Germany" (but not for Poland) [1798]


So she learned to counter a few highly telegraphed moves with no killing intent in a controlled situation. This is not going to help her at all if she ever finds herself in such a situation.

One real problem is that self-defense courses inflict on you a false sense of self-confidence. This overconfidence gets people killed!

Case in point. Just read this article, it is a real eye-opener.

cracked.com/personal-experiences-2124-6-things-you-need-to-know-about-self-defense-from-expert.html


My love is also worth **** if i would get them killed because of my own overconfidence. I remember reading a lot of comments about this case where people accused the friend of cowardice. But nobody ever made a reasonable response what the friend actually should have done, given the situation.

News / "It's too late for Germany" (but not for Poland) [1798]

What should he have done? He had no weapon and the culprit told him that if he heard any noise from the temt, he would cut the girls throat.

I do not know about you, but I have some experience in martial arts. One of the first things you learn is in practical self-defense is that fighting against someone with a knife unarmed is suicide.

But yes I know, you would have taken the bastard out like Bruce Lee. Though even Bruce Lee once said that he would never fight against a semi-competent armed assailant if at all possible.

News / "It's too late for Germany" (but not for Poland) [1798]


What do you mean?

I assume you mean the case in Bonn? I followed the trial and to me it seems that the guy made the right call (and his girlfriend agreed). Many people always imagine influenced by movies that they can play a hero if given the chance, but reality is very different. If someone comes at you with a knife and you are unarmed, you either run away, or do everything he says. The rapist had a knife at the throat of his victim either way, playing the hero might have got both victims killed.

News / "It's too late for Germany" (but not for Poland) [1798]

Someone reported him to the police, and the police now investigates. What is wrong about this? This is how a justice system should work. If it is deemed as appropiate self-defence, he has nothing to fear.

News / "It's too late for Germany" (but not for Poland) [1798]


You are jumping to conclusions here. We do not know yet the outcome of either investigations.

@Rich Mazur

I pity your grandchildren. You are more likely to hit them than any possible intruder.

News / "It's too late for Germany" (but not for Poland) [1798]

I guess some people still have the caveman genes in them. And as this thread demonstrates, they are not all muslims.

It is not without irony that someone like Dirk seems to embody a very similar mind setting to the people he so despises.

News / "It's too late for Germany" (but not for Poland) [1798]

The incident did not happen at some remote park. It happened at a Munich train station where thanks to the October fest police officers are everywhere. Violence is always the last resort, and according to some articles I have read, there would have been other options available.

News / "It's too late for Germany" (but not for Poland) [1798]

You can do that in the Wild West, not in a civilized country where there are police officers nearby, especially at a train station during the Oktoberfest.

News / "It's too late for Germany" (but not for Poland) [1798]

Why, this due process. There is always an investigation after the use of force, even if it is clear self-defence. And in this case, it seems like violence might not have been necessary, since there were police officers were nearby who could have been easily alerted.

In anoter incident at the Oktoberfest, a Jeside was attacked on his way home by a group of skinheads and almost beaten to death.

merkur.de/welt/kramermarkt-oldenburg-gruppe-verpruegelt-besucher-ueberfall-nach-volksfest-zr-10292806.html

News / "It's too late for Germany" (but not for Poland) [1798]


Yeah, but better do not look up what happened to many of those athletes, it makes up for a depressing read.

News / "It's too late for Germany" (but not for Poland) [1798]

More people equals more overall crimes, that is just common sense. But Dirk has already proven that he has no idea how statistics work, so I am not going to bother.


Migrants and refugees do not get to vote.


And in the USA, they might have made him judge on the Supreme Court. ;)

News / "It's too late for Germany" (but not for Poland) [1798]


That is hardly the case. There have been several instances in recent history when Germany more polarized. 1968, the peace movement in the 1980s and the Ostpolitik. The CDU failed morally with its' opposition to Brandt's Ostpolitik. I am proud to know that it is now on the right side of history on this issue.


Merkel's "ideology" is respect for the rule of law and international treaties. That is not outmoded. That Merkel helped upheld those values in such testing times might very well be one of her greatest achievements.


Indeed. But unfortunately the vocal minority in form of the AfD gets more intention.

News / "It's too late for Germany" (but not for Poland) [1798]

@mafketis


Yeah no, that is not what happened. The creditor nations gave the Greeks a clear choics: Accept our reform proposals, and we will borrow you money. Or reject it and leave the Euro. The Greek politicians (chiefly among them that lunatic Varoufakis) told them that if they voted against the reforms, they would still get the money. They convinced the Greeks that there was a different choice, one which in truth never existed. If you want to blame anyone for misleading the people, blame the Greek politicians. The Greek politicians could have followed through and left the Euro, but they did not, because the Greek still overwhelmingly support the Euro.

Nobody can seriously claim that the other democratically elected governments of the EU should have offered Greece better conditions simply because of a plebiscite. It was Greece asking for help, not vice versa. And nobody was forced, the Greeks were given a choice until the end.

Also as a side note, it was not Germany who had the hardest stance on Greece. Instead most of the poorer, smaller states did not appreciate that they should be forced to pay for Greek pensioners.

theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/09/poorer-than-greece-the-eu-countries-that-reject-a-new-athens-bailout

News / "It's too late for Germany" (but not for Poland) [1798]

You know Lyzko, I believe you have the wrong picture of Merkel. Merkel never claimed that Germany needed to help all refugees, or indeed showed much empathy for them. It was in early 2015 when she received much criticism for her seemingly cold treatment of a young Palestinian girl on television. Her refugee policy was less about the well-being of the refugees and more about the stability of the EU.

News / "It's too late for Germany" (but not for Poland) [1798]


I have no issue with the UK leaving. But the way the Leave campaign mislead and lied the British is just disgusting, of course the British are also culpable because they chose to believe those lies. Still it would be better to have a second referendum now when the British people seem to actually know what they are voting for.


You seem to be widely misinformed about the reason behind the position of Bruessels during the negotiations. The reason why the EU negotiators are so "hard" (or rather realistic) towards the UK is not because of some "petty" bureaucrats, but because of the position of various EU governments, each of which has a veto during the negotiations. The EU is not hard on the Irish border question because of vindictivness, but because Ireland said that it would veto any deal that would hurt its' interests. The EU does not offer a separate deal on free movement, because various EU governments (among them many Eastern Europeans) do not want that. And so on.

News / "It's too late for Germany" (but not for Poland) [1798]

At least now the people know the consequences of leaving, or at least can not pretend to did not know.

The Brexiteers can no longer hide behind empty promises like "Easiest trade deal in history" or "Have the cake and Eat it".

News / "It's too late for Germany" (but not for Poland) [1798]

Merkel is neither responsible for Brexit (yeah no dear Brits, you brought this on your own) nor for the underlining problems of the Euro. She did however keep the Euro together when many "experts" predicted its' imminent demise between 2010-2012. For that, she won the election in 2013.

Whether the Greeks loved her is irrelevant ( though according to polls, they did and still do trust her more than their own politicians).

News / Poland's PIS party and the UK Tories [25]

The problem with monarchies is - aside from the legitimacy problem in an otherwise democratic society - that you are stuck with both the good and bad ones, and that you can never be sure how future monarchs turn out. Sure Queen Elizabeth and Carlos II are/were pretty great, but can the same necessarily be said about their children, or grandchildren? Why should one idiot rule over me just because his great-grandfather was a decent guy? At least with our politician, I know they are in a position of power because they got elected (even if not by me).

News / "It's too late for Germany" (but not for Poland) [1798]

@Bratwurst Boy


Vote for a different party, or vote for the same party. There are enough options available.

@mafketis


Nope, because there were safeguards like this in both countries, and both leaders found ways to circumvent them. Putin simply made his puppet president for one term. Erdogan's party AKP had a rule preventing any politician from holding an office for more than 3 terms. Erdogan simply became president and changed the political system to his liking.

It makes sense to establish safeguards like this in immature democracies, or presidential democracies, but not in a highly federalized parliamentary democracy in which there are so many checks on the PMs/chancellors power.


Well, Germany does have a term limit for its' head of state, the German president. The chancellor is the head of government.

Besides, at least in Germany, Adenauer, Kohl and Merkel received their 3rd terms for their remarkeable political achievements. Adenauer for rebuilding Germany, Kohl for reuniting Germany and Merkel for keeping the EU and Euro together.

News / "It's too late for Germany" (but not for Poland) [1798]


That is usually just a momentary impression that fades with time. People always crave change and only later start to appreciate what they had earlier. This happened in the days of kings and now in the days of politicians.


If it is his decision, why not? Every chancellor (though we only have with Adenauer and Kohl had teo cases so far) made the decision to continue because they had something they believed they still needed to do. Adenauer wanted to finish his project of integrating the FRG into the West, Kohl wanted to introduce the Euro, and both succeeded. In Adenauers' case he also prevented Erhardt, whom he -rightfully- believed to be not up to the task from succeeding him for too long.


A mostly academical question. A party leader gets directly voted by his party. If you do not like the leader, you also disapprove with the party's decision and thus should not vote for him and his party.

News / "It's too late for Germany" (but not for Poland) [1798]

I disagree. There is no need for a term limit in a parliamentary democracy, in which a leader can be displaced by either the voters or the voters (who can even vote all 4 years and not 5 like some other countries). If the voters, his/her party and a coalition believes that a leader should continue, then there is no reason for an arbitrary term limit.

@Crnogorac3


Yeah no, all evidence suggest the contrary. The people in Croatia and Slovakia overwhelmingly wanted independence (unlike the Catalans who are split about it) and Belgrad reacted in the worst possible way. There would have been bloodshed either way, as shown by later wars. Germany merely grasped the reality sooner than others. I am quite proud how the Kohl government stood on the right side of history on this decision.

@Crow

Nobody outside Serbia mourns for Yugoslavia. It died with Tito's death, Germany simply accelerated the burial of its' rotting carcass. It was a flawed, unsustainable creation to begin with anyway.

News / "It's too late for Germany" (but not for Poland) [1798]

Crow, the dissolution of Yugoslavia happened because nobody -except the Serbs - believed in the idea anymore. It was not the West who forced the Croats and others to declare independence.

News / "It's too late for Germany" (but not for Poland) [1798]


Aside from the fact that those Non-Europeans have so far caused less trouble, the problem with integrating East Germans is that it was barely attempted with them on a mental level. Refugees are now expected to take a course in which they are taught about democracy and German society. The same should have happened with East Germans, but since no politician wanted to antagonize them, it was never done properly.


That can hardly be said about Germany as a whole. East Germany perhaps, but not West Germany. Remember, the AfD barely got above 10% during the last federal election there.


How much that will change Germany remains to be seen. I remember reading an article in the FAZ about a recent study that disputes the number of jobs lost through this digitalization. A few years ago people though that self-driving trucks would soon take over the streets. Now even the greatest optimists believe that this might only become an option in a few decades. Until then there are however challenges that could far more dangerous to the stability in Germany. Soon there will be a new forecast for the development of Germany and many expect that the prediction for East Germany will be very pessimistic. Which comes as no surprise, given the circumstances.

Genealogy / Slavs are descendants of Sarmatians? [600]

Sure we can wait :)

News / "It's too late for Germany" (but not for Poland) [1798]


It certainly was, relatively speaking compared to what came afterwards.


Young people without a future tend to act in extreme ways. Each society has its' own challenges. France no doubt has the integration of its' minorities. Germany as it turns out has a problem with integrating the East Germans - or at least a significant minority of them. I know that many East Germans do no like to hear it, but it had become clear that there is something seriously wrong with their mentality - of a minority again, but then again it is also only a minority of migrants who cause problems.

I must say I felt particulary bad after reading this article.

zeit.de/amp/gesellschaft/zeitgeschehen/2018-09/rechtsextremismus-rassismus-brandstiftung-statistik-landeskriminalamt-sachsen-kritik

Genealogy / Slavs are descendants of Sarmatians? [600]

Crow, I am mereley stating what has been the established opinion by international historians for many years. You claim the Etruscians as Sarmatians. We do have found many records of their language, and it is clear that they spoke a mixture of Greek, Phoenician and Italic. No Sarmatian origin whatsoever.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etruscan_language

What evidence are you talking about? Please provide me with a link or anything.

News / "It's too late for Germany" (but not for Poland) [1798]


Which studies are you refering to?

Sociology is not really my main point of interest. I do know however that historians have - together with Sociologists - started to question of long-held believes during the last 30 years or, especially regarding cultural diversity. We know for example that diverse Empire were often more stable than what came afterwards. The Habsburg Empire is a good example for this.

West Germany is also more diverse than East Germany, yet is more safe and peaceful according to criminal statistics.