UK, Ireland / The Daily Mail - coverage of the Polish people [161]

The story came from the fact that in Poland elephant is often eaten as the sunday dinner...of course in Poland an elephant is a swan...!

The dish became so popular that elephants are now seldom seen in Polish forests...

Life / Do you think a smoking ban would be a good thing in Polish restaurants and Bars? [217]

My 7.5 litre Rangerover can destroy the ozone layer entirely by itself...just by running the engine for three minutes...!

UK, Ireland / The Daily Mail - coverage of the Polish people [161]

Poles in Poland . even the poor ones don,t eat swans....why would they do it in the UK...?

Have they been accused of kidnapping and eating children yet...?

UK, Ireland / The Daily Mail - coverage of the Polish people [161]

I thought the swan eating thing was a joke..! Did they actually print that rubbish....?

Has there actually been any case of a Pole or any Eastern European eating a swan , or is it as i suspect total guff...?

UK, Ireland / The Daily Mail - coverage of the Polish people [161]

The sort of people who read the Daily wail and other such comics are probably the sort of people who dont like Poles or anyone else anyway , so i doubt it will make that much difference to how the Brits view the Poilsh people there...

Some will love em , some will hate em...and most won,t care one way or the other...

Off-Topic / ANYONE HEAR A STRANGE NOISE IN WARSAW....? [45]


BEANS...!..where are they..?...let me at em...!

History / Polish armored trains form I and II World War [32]

I think armoured trains were a fine idea if you had control of the sky above the tracks , and were running the trains through area,s that your forces controlled , but in other circumstances they were very vunerable to air attack , and a partisan with a handfull of explosives could easily destroy a small piece of track and turn your lovely armoured train into a tangled wreck...

In the last year of the war the Germans found that losing control of the sky meant that nothing bigger than a handcart could move in daylight without having a fighter bomber attacking it , and a train was a favourite target...Several hundred tons of steel moving at speed and chucking out clouds of smoke and steam could be seen for miles , and once spotted were pretty well doomed...During this time the armoured train made a bit of a comeback , as the Germans attempted to protect the trains with some armour and guns to fend off air attacks , but very few trains once spotted got away intact...

It wasn,t long before the rail systems in all occupied countries ground to a halt as the allies bombed the tracks , bridges , rail yards and junctions , and the partisans joined in , derailing trains on a regular basis....

As a matter of fact my interest in the second war , and model railways had me making a model of an armoured train quite a few years back , all hand built from scratch , as you could not get any such models in those days...Now , you can get several models of such trains....

Love / Italian girl has a question about a Polish man [21]


Perhaps it takes him a while to translate your words....I understand you are not English , but i think if you try to spell words correctly he may write back a bit quicker...

Off-Topic / ANYONE HEAR A STRANGE NOISE IN WARSAW....? [45]

Well...Wildrover is my surname , my first name is Beener , i am from the planet tharg, oh hang on , sorry that was a typing error , i am from a small town in Yorkshire , and of course have no connection with any strange craft landing in remote areas of Poland...or anywhere...

I don,t actually know anything about ths strange noise , nothing at all , i am just on this forum to find out if any earthlings , i mean forum members heard anything of this noise , and what they thought it might be..?

If anyone knows anything , don,t tell anyone but me...you can find me here in area 69 Ostrowice... thanks....

Life / COMBATING "POLACK" JOKES [460]


I don,t know what nationality you are muppet...but your country should do something to stop you breeding...

I have never seen Bratwurst boy write anything that could in any way cause him to be labeled as a nazi , i guess you just don,t like Germans , and probably don,t like anyone who is not as dumb as you and from the same country...

I shall be very embarrassed if you are from my country...

Off-Topic / ANYONE HEAR A STRANGE NOISE IN WARSAW....? [45]

would i lie about such a thing...?

History / Polish armored trains form I and II World War [32]


Well... it seems i was mistaken when i said i did not think any armoured train had made a difference to any battle...i was not aware of this incidence in the Poland battle....

I know the Germans did use quite a few captured trains that they got from the French and Polish invasions , but this is the first i knew of any train making a big impact on a battle...i stand corrected...

History / The Gustloff - one of the worst maritime disasters that seemed to never have happened [66]

Of course i would do the same , anyone would , its the natural reaction , especially if you have been told in great detail what the Russians were likely to do to you , but i am just saying from a military point of view its not wise to have your civilian population blocking the roads up and hampering movement of miltary units , not that this would have made much difference to the eventual outcome...

The reason the Russian crimes in occupied areas were daily announced on the radio in Germany was of course to encourage the German soldier to fight harder to defend his homeland , but it did not help to calm the civilian population and caused mass panic as the Russians got near to any town or city....

Yes , many Germans who remained behind were killed , but more than a million died in the retreat westwards...and most of those who survived found themselves overtaken or cut off by the Russians anyway , not so many were able to reach an area where they were not under Russian occupation....But no , i am not suprised people tried to escape , its what anyone would do if they could...

History / The Gustloff - one of the worst maritime disasters that seemed to never have happened [66]

I certainly would not deny the horrific actions of Russian soldiers in the lands occupied by them , but i still think it was not a wise idea to make public the fate of Germans in the occupied areas...Many of those who fled were killed on route by Russian attacks....

Usually the population would stay put in their homes as long as they thought the German troops in the town or city had a chance of stopping the Russians , and because this is usually what they were instucted to do , but as soon as they saw the German troops and local leaders pulling out they would join the military units as they retreated , of course feeling a little more secure among a few tanks and armoured vehicles...

Unfortunatly , if they ran into any Russian units they would be attacked , the Russians were not concerned if there were civilians among the military units , i know of one instance where a German tank unit accompanied by hundreds of civilians ran into Russian guns and large numbers of civilians were killed also....After the leading tank was hit and destroyed , blocking the road , the remaing tanks were forced to reverse over the people that had survived the shelling and retreat..This was not an uncommon event...

As i stated earlier , my ex mother in law was part of this retreat westwards , and her stories of this time are not pleasant ones...

History / The Gustloff - one of the worst maritime disasters that seemed to never have happened [66]

What i meant was..that Goebbels did not help to calm people by making public the stories of what had happened to Germans in areas occupied by the Russians , and it was this panic that caused the Gustloff to be filled with so many scared people that day it was sunk...I wasn,t suggesting that Goebbels was personally responsible for any deaths of Germans , just that he helped to cause much of the panic by telling people what terrible things the Russians did....

Of course people heard such stories from German troops returning from Russia , but thats not the same as having it anounced daily on the radio....

Apart from the fact people were more at risk when out on the roads and subject to attack from Russian aircraft , having the roads filled with fleeing civilians severly hampered the movement of German troops....The military leaders were trying to stop civilians fleeing in panic for this very reason , and announcing such horrors as happened in Prussia had a negative effect on this....

I am well aware of what the Russians did in Prussia , my ex mother in law was from this area , and was part of the population that was fleeing west to escape the Russians...She barely escaped the trap around Danzig , and had she not done so , she could well have been one of the many people trying to board a ship leaving this area....

History / The Gustloff - one of the worst maritime disasters that seemed to never have happened [66]

I never heard of any German , British , Japanese , or American sub making contact with any ship before torpedoing it..it just wasn,t done... A submarines best defence was to remain submerged , launch the torpedoes and run for it...Any radio transmission could result in detection and a depth charge attack...Most of the U boats that were sank were found because their messages were intercepted.....

All that was usually done before any attack was to identify the ship as a enemy one , thats as far as it went for any submarine of any nation...

Thanks to Herr goebels the German people had been filled with horror stories of what the Russians would do if they got on German soil , this was done to make them fight harder , but for the civilians it just caused mass panic when the Russians got near , and those that could flee , did so...If anyone is to blame for the huge loss of life , its mr Goebels...

History / Polish armored trains form I and II World War [32]


Yes , they were very popular , and seen as great symbols of power...but like the battleship they were big targets for any well equipped enemy to home in on and destroy...

History / Polish armored trains form I and II World War [32]

Yes this is true...it had great success as a way to terrorise simple peasants when it turned up in their town...but against a well armed enemy they were not so great....

History / The Gustloff - one of the worst maritime disasters that seemed to never have happened [66]


They did not work underwater though...and why would he risk surfacing in order to go through all the possible radio channels to contact the ship...It was almost certainly going to be a German ship , so whatever it was carrying..it was going down..!

If by some remote chance it had not been a German ship , unlikely , just off the German coast , then the Russian captain would likely as not just not admit to the sinking...

He was after all , a long way from where he was supposed to be patrolling in contravention of his orders....

History / Polish armored trains form I and II World War [32]


Most nations seem to have had armoured trains , but i have not heard of any significant battle that was influenced by an armoured train making an appearance on the scene....

No matter how good your armoured train was , it was restricted in where it could go by where the rail tracks went , and if somebody bombed the tracks , your mobile armoured train suddenly became a not very mobile pillbox that was probably in the wrong place...

I think such trains were more effective in the first war , but in the second war they were much more vunerable to guns and air power and were of limited use...

Didn,t stop most nations from using them though...

Law / The 'Secret' of Poland's Economic Success [83]


Yep...put me down for a couple...female ones...thanks...

History / The Gustloff - one of the worst maritime disasters that seemed to never have happened [66]


Its difficult to see how the Russian captain of this submarine could have verified the purpose of the ship without surfacing his sub , opening the hatches , and putting a boarding party aboard the ship , something no inteligent sub captain is going to do in hostile waters , with a ship that may well be full of armed troops...

Just off the German coast , this ship is almost certainly going to be a German ship , and that was more than reason enough for the Russian sub to attack it...

Given the nature of the inhuman war between the Soviet union and Germany it may well be that this ship would have been sunk even if it had been clearly marked as a hospital ship , but it wasn,t and i don,t think you can blame the Russian sub captain for doing what sub captains of many nations did on a regular basis...

The reason Japan was brought to its knees was because the allied tactic was to sink anything Japanese that was spotted at sea , and this included even fishing boats and sampans , so the Russians were not doing anything out of the ordainary...

Its a tragedy of epic proprtions that the Gustloff was carrying so many people that day when it was sunk , most of them innocent civilians , but the Russian sub captain was not to know that , and as i say , he may have sunk it anyway...

History / The Gustloff - one of the worst maritime disasters that seemed to never have happened [66]


Well actually it was a military ship...It was painted in German naval grey , and had two anti aircraft guns fitted to the upper decks....The fact that it was being used for the evacuation of civilians and wounded soldiers as well as some military people would not have been known to the Russian submarine comander , and i doubt if it would have stopped him launching torpedoes at the ship anyway....

History / The Gustloff - one of the worst maritime disasters that seemed to never have happened [66]


But maybe this is the time to remember when women did not have a special day and were used abused and killed by men who were part of an unruly mob in uniform....

History / The Gustloff - one of the worst maritime disasters that seemed to never have happened [66]


Totally impossible to even guess...but in Berlin alone the figures were very high , and thats only the ones that are known about...

Many women were killed after being raped , many killed themselves after being raped , or to avoid it...Of those that survived there will be no record i expect , all of Europe was in chaos , millions of people fleeing in all directions..There was nobody for these women to complain to about any rape, very scant and pushed to the limit medical help , and i suspect a woman wanting an abortion would be low on the list of priority when there were millions injured , hungry and suffering disease...

Of course in these days rape was not something you would readily admit to being a victim of , so there must be many who never spoke of their ordeal....

As a matter of interest my ex mother in law was German , a very lovely woman , who in the war was part of an anti aircraft unit . often called on to try to stop Russian tanks with their guns...She is from the area of Germany that is now Latvia , and like many miitary and civilians she was fleeing west in order to be captured by the British and American forces rather than the feared Russians....The first Americans she saw were a unit of Black soldiers who were ransacking a German town and raping the women...so it was not only the Russians that were commiting crimes...

History / The Gustloff - one of the worst maritime disasters that seemed to never have happened [66]

Many reports i have read state that the Gustloff was carrying red cross markings , but i just read the report on the official site , and as i thought , it was NOT carrying any red cross markings , and was painted in German navy grey colour rather than the internationaly agreed colour for a hospital ship of white with a green band aound the hull and the red cross marked on the side and decks...It was also carrying two anti aircraft guns on the upper decks....

The attack came at night , and ironically the ship was probably only spotted because it had turned on its navigation lights due to the risk of collision with some minesweepers that were in the area...

Among those that died on board were some 900 naval crew that were to man the new U boats waiting for them in Kiel , the ships destination...These new u boats were state of the art , and would have made a major difference to the war at sea...Many of these u boats never made it to sea due to the loss of these highly trained crews...

History / The Gustloff - one of the worst maritime disasters that seemed to never have happened [66]

I don,t believe the ship was marked with a red cross at the time of the sinking..but i may be wrong on that...It had been used as a hospital ship earlier in its life , but at the time of the sinking it was used as a kind of floating hotel for German naval staff...

In any case , at this stage of the war the Russians were not too bothered about what a ship was carrying..if it was German...it got sunk...!

History / The Gustloff - one of the worst maritime disasters that seemed to never have happened [66]

Well , i think revenge played its part...Russian soldiers had many months of entering Russian towns to find out that terrible things had happened there..they were every day coming across evidence of great cruelty , a lot of it commited by other Russians of course , the partisans were killing other partisans as well as Germans , but usually it was all blamed on the Germans...Some of the crimes commited by Russian soldiers were horrific , but of course there was no Nuremburg style trial for the victors...The fate of German women especially in Berlin was usually to be raped , and often killed...There were no rules in this war in the east...and Germany paid a heavy price for losing it....

History / The Gustloff - one of the worst maritime disasters that seemed to never have happened [66]

In a town only 22 kms from my home the Russians shot every male over 12 after some German youth took a pot shot at a Russian officer...The war in Russia was a war with no humanity , and of course the Russians were naturally going to take some revenge once they took control of German land...

History / The Gustloff - one of the worst maritime disasters that seemed to never have happened [66]

I am very aware that the farm that i live in was once the home of some German family who were probably forced to leave the farm at gunpoint...i always wondered if they survived the war....I was very happy to meet the daughter of the man who built my farm , and find out that not only did they survive the war , but came back to live in the farm after the war...

The loss of the ship was a terrible tragedy , but the war in the east was a war without rules , and the civilians suffered as much as the soldiers...