Life / Etiquette in a Store and Market Queues in Poland [146]

Oh and it was likely your grandpa too. Sadly, I think everyone here would agree you've fallen well short of his standard: )

Life / Etiquette in a Store and Market Queues in Poland [146]

Well Magdalena, I could tell you many a thing but based on the above two statements, I put my own words at risk of your interpretation. And on my behalf no less!

Thank you, but I decline your offer: )
The words "appear" and "seem," at least in my usage of them, are not meant to be polite. I use those words to be specific. It's how I communicate "here's what it looks like from my perspective" in writing; not "This is a fact."

The quotes you took from me are a bit out of context - that reads like an emotional and knee-jerk reaction to any criticism of anything Polish by anyone who's not Polish.

If someone steps out into public but can't be bothered to take stock of those and the situation around them then that is in fact a sad indicator on that individual- why would you feel compelled to run to their defense on that? Is it okay for one Pole to walk to the front of a queue just because they feel like it? Is it okay for me and the rest of those in the queue (presumably Poles) to set the guy straight? Is it okay with you if I do that on my own or do I have to wait for the locals to stand up for themselves before I'm allowed to as well?

I doubt you spend your time bumbling around walking into elevators before anyone gets off; pushing your way through the people leaving buses and trams instead of politely waiting for them to get off; running on the left side of the pavement, constantly disrupting the flow of cyclists and groups (despite the fact the VAST majority are traveling on the right); or walking around chatting on your phone, so engaged in the conversation that you can't be bothered to notice what your eyes are seeing. Those habits are simply rude and there's no excusing them. So why are you?

I agree with BLS, while not avoiding the collision, he simply chose not to avoid what the other person was doing. And no Grzegorz, that will likely not result in violence, a real man will tell his woman to watch where she's going or guide her through the crowd in the first place.

Here's an example, I was running along a footpath through the forest. I saw an old guy walking with those Nordic sticks coming the same direction. I moved more to my right to give him as much path as I could. He immediately responded by moving to his left so once again he was coming right for me. I thought "whatever" and then moved off the path and continued jogging on the grass even further to my right. He then proceeded to move on to the grass to his left once again bringing us into opposition. I slowed up a bit and was a bit perplexed so I gave the universal body language that says "what do you want from me." The guy then does the exact same thing and keeps coming at me only faster....Now please tell me how you would interpret that.

Life / Etiquette in a Store and Market Queues in Poland [146]


Where did I write anything about a rule?


I don't know what the custom is in every state but it's none of my concern.
When in Rome?
That's exactly my point, there's always a few too many people here who just can't seem to do that.
Case in point:
A footpath through the forest accommodates cyclists and pedestrians. In such an environment, the majority, in every country I've been to, establish some kind of norm. Same thing with swimming lanes, a norm of travel is established. In Poland though, there's like 20% of the population who just can not get with the program and are rather obstinate about it.

The world needs dissidents and perhaps these are yours but to me it just seems like too many Poles don't seem to grasp the concept of social contract (as referred to by another poster).


Less time than it took you to come up with your question; )

Magda, I'll think of something to write you. I want to make sure my recollection of events is accurate.

Life / Etiquette in a Store and Market Queues in Poland [146]


You go ahead and do that but I doubt you'd find them patronizing if you heard other Poles say these same things. You really think other Poles are that oblivious to such people?


Likewise I could ask if it's ever occurred to you that is precisely what I am curious about?
I beg of you to be objective. If you carefully read my posts you'll see a very deliberate use of the word "seem" or "appear." The point of using that language was to make it clear that I am trying to provide the benefit of the doubt.

If it's unclear in my posts then let me assure you I'm still holding out hope that I will understand the reasons for what I perceive to be a lack of courtesy and consideration that seems to be come out in odd and unexpected ways here among some segments of the population.

If you don't know what I'm talking about then I'll give you an example and you can educate all the foreigners on how they're interpreting things incorrectly...that's a far cry better than posting quotes out of context and getting your feathers ruffled for no real reason.

Life / Etiquette in a Store and Market Queues in Poland [146]


Of course it does darling. Of course it does.
If it doesn't change one's perception of that factor then one doesn't really understand the principal behind his actions.
Once one is able to do that then it becomes hard to say he was rude. On the contrary; he may have provided her with a timely reminder on keeping her head up.

Just think, if it wasn't for him she might have careened off the platform, splayed onto the tracks with blood trickling from horrible head wound. All that was averted thanks to his diligent observance.

You should be applauding him for saving her life!

Life / Etiquette in a Store and Market Queues in Poland [146]


You see that's where some people don't see it that way. The idea being that if one cannot look to see where one is going then don't cry foul when people don't step out of your way. This applies to driving as well.

Life / Etiquette in a Store and Market Queues in Poland [146]

I know I learned some lessons that way; )

To be completely honest though, I do very similar things, I will avoid getting out of someone's way to the extent they attempt not to get in my way. After watching enough videos on Russian drivers, I'm wondering if there isn't something going on with peripheral vision among Slavic people.

On a somewhat contradictory and related point: one of my colleagues told me he's asked a few of the co-workers in his department if they are self-observant/self-critical. They laughed at the idea that anyone would even question one's own actions.

It would explain the "my sh*t don't stink" attitude I've seen among a segment of the population where I live. There's a combination of things at play with different people but this is all a digression.

Suffice to say, the approach towards conducting oneself in public seems to be different here in many ways and that's just how it is.

Life / Etiquette in a Store and Market Queues in Poland [146]


I've done very similar tests over many years here. This behavior puzzles me and I just don't know or don't understand where it comes from. But there is a sizeable portion of the population here that do NOT in anyway shape or demonstrable form seem to take others into account when they do their thing -really unfit people for a healthy society imo.

One part of me realizes that inconsideration and a lack of awareness of those around you IS a bad indicator on a person but on the other hand that seems to be a constant here so there must be a good reason for it.

I really don't know if people here actually like that kind of behavior but why would they? Perhaps, Poles consider it beneath them to react to the plethora of inconsideration, boorishness and general dipsh*tery that goes on display in Polish society.

From a societal and psychological perspective, I find the phenomenon fascinating from a perspective of "How-much-dysfunction can a society tolerate?"

Life / Etiquette in a Store and Market Queues in Poland [146]

^ It's almost like there's a different culture or something here....

that being said, people taking the p*ss are doing just that and why people tolerate that is one of those things that I just haven't worked out yet. Oh well.

News / Footie hooligan punch-up thwarted in Poland [47]

I've been telling some of the guys in my area for years to get this going but have come to accept that the strategic thinking of most of the people here is 2 years maximum...if no one can guarantee someone they'll be the next Jan Kulczyk in that time then it's not going to happen:/

But I've worked out a lot of things that would have to happen for it to be stable and profitable.the point though isn't who does it but that it gets done and it actually produces some benefit to offset the costs these brawls have on society in general.

News / Footie hooligan punch-up thwarted in Poland [47]

yeah, like if they had a league then it could actually produce revenue.
Fcuk it, some c-unt should start a hooligans league in Poland, if any revenue was produced then there'd be some awesome franchise options available in the future. At least in that way their actions would benefit them as well as others -win, win scenario imo.

Life / Etiquette in a Store and Market Queues in Poland [146]

You are correct...unfortunately.
Poles, or at least a good many of them, seem to genuinely thrive on creating as much disorder and disarray as possible within any and all situations.

There's always a few retards who can't seem to work out the workings of a foot path in the park -majority travel on the right? Well I guess that's their queue to travel on their left.

You gotta pick your battles with these kind of things but it sounds like you did well.

News / Footie hooligan punch-up thwarted in Poland [47]

I'm glad to see that no one got hurt that day but even this is still a reaction to a symptom of a much deeper social problem.

If the national and municipal governments invested money that people currently pay in taxes on things like, oh I don't know...culture, parks, recreation, infrastructure and education then these events would attract fewer participants.

UK, Ireland / Scots better than Poles? [41]

I think I read somewhere, the kilt, in one form or another, was introduced into Scotland via present day Ireland. Anyone else hear something similar?

Work / Teaching English in Poland (Poznan) with my TEFL Cert degree [14]

Everything DominicB has written is correct.

Love / ARE POLISH GIRLS GOLD-DIGGERS? [359]


this observation is not something I can discredit. Thanks for the wake up call.

UK, Ireland / Scots better than Poles? [41]


This ought to be rephrased as "Scottish society has apparently contributed more to world civilization in terms of literature and inventions (culture and personalities? wtf does that mean?) than Polish society.

So what if it's true? So what if it's false?
There's really too much misplaced pride and shame in the deeds of others these days.
There's nothing wrong with promoting a national identity but please find one other than "who's better than us?"

History / Poland is a Catholic country [177]

No I shouldn't say that.
First of all I'm not talking to the Holy Mother the Church.
Secondly the Church is made up of people so you people are responsible for one another, or did you forget that aspect of it all?

Thirdly if the metaphor and practice of "Shepard and flock" is used, then you should be holding the Shepard to higher standards.

If there is corruption within an organization which claims to represent the word of Jesus Christ then that's a fairly substantial inconsistency between official and unofficial policy. That more than anything tells me what I need to know. I never really trust any organization that has large holes and discord between official and unofficial policies and when it comes to The Ever After, then you better have that one sorted out.

I wouldn't be the first to say I could fill a football stadium with the number of Poles I've met who lie through their teeth before and after Sunday service. This tells me the message isn't getting through to a lot of the congregation. Somebody's not doing their job.

Now I'm really done with this thread. I don't see any way I could explain it more explicitly to get my point across. That's what it is and what you do with it is all the same to me.

History / Poland is a Catholic country [177]


I am not talking about commercial activity, I'm talking about taking in more money than is being spent or "invested."


You would if it was but it's as tight as a drum.


No it is not.
The people who currently comprise the ranks of the RCC in Poland cannot legitimately take credit for the accomplishments and sacrifices of others in the past.

The people who currently comprise the ranks of the RCC in Poland must take responsibility for any corruption which infects the organization in the present.

That is according to me.
If you disagree with that then go right ahead.


If these goofs want to talk about spreading the word of God and claim moral superiority (ironic considering the man whose teachings they say they follow) then that level of corruption has to be at ZERO for their message to have the credibility it deserves. You can't claim to represent God and be even a little bit corrupt -it's got to be nil (imho).


I am not saying the church does not benefit people here, they do and that is without question and it'd be dishonest to claim otherwise.

All that being said, it's dishonest to claim there is neither major hypocrisy regarding money and power nor any corruption in this organization in Poland.

Anyway, I said what I wanted to say and anything else would just be going round in circles. Unless anyone has some new angle or perspective I am chiming out for a while.

History / Poland is a Catholic country [177]


No, it's correct. When the church ceases to make a profit here, it'll either close up shop or reposition itself on the market. Nothing personal but that's a fact Jack.


That is an illogical response to an illogical "attack." So the statement "The church in Poland earned its position many times over." is only correct so long as we preclude any intended meaning of "has earned." I.e. the church earned its position in the past but today's lot has to prove its own worth, in other words the current clergy cannot legitimately lay claim to accomplishments which they did nothing to affect.

I am sure if I looked across the gallery I'd find loads of b.s. the other guy is spouting too.
I am not siding against you, I just wanted to comment on those two statements as they stuck out for whatever reason (probably because it's easier to read your posts than the other guy's).

Really, it's all a bit silly, the RCC in Poland is corrupt and Poles don't seem to care or want to pretend otherwise.

But that's the beauty of choice- let people do what they want and they can see where that gets them.


I'm pretty sure the standard of living and way of life enjoyed by the people in: Estonia, Sweden, Denmark, Czech Republic, Norway, Japan or United Kingdom is not because they started as Christian countries but maybe that's just my opinion. Maybe someone else will care to verify that, maybe not.

Keep up the good fight.

History / Poland is a Catholic country [177]


By the looks of it the church is made up of people.
That being said, "the church" is an organization and if this organization is operating within a different set of rules than other organizations despite functioning on a for-profit basis, like most other companies, then one would have to concede that is unfair.

*Disclaimer The RCC in Poland seems to operate on a for-profit basis in practice, until I see otherwise, that's how I'm gonna see it.*


Perhaps that is true but why those in this holier than thou organization accept ill-gotten funds does lead to other questions.


It's not a single sentient body. The honest efforts of those in the past are not something everyone who joins up later should be able to bask in until kingdom come.

Life / Are Polish people brave or scared? [32]


I'm not looking down on anyone, to the contrary, I'm saying we shouldn't be so ready to look down on others. If you interpret that otherwise then you go ahead and do that.

But:
Can we just agree saying pond scum has more of a right to life than some people makes neither sense nor has any objective validation?

Do I ask too much?

Life / Are Polish people brave or scared? [32]


So who are you to say what the "right to life" actually is? Why is your definition any more valid than another's?


Maybe they are trying? Maybe they'd actually be doing a lot worse if they really let themselves go -you ever think about that?
What I'm saying applies to anyone you think to be a bigot. They could all be thinking: "who are you to judge us?" You know what I mean?

However some of them may actually be trying to tone it down and this is as far as they can suppress it. Scary isn't it?

At the same time I must ask you to consider the following:

Maybe their situation is a lot worse than you think it is and may be that's why they're like that

Maybe the education system isn't producing what it should be

Maybe the social system here isn't providing what it should be

Maybe their jobs aren't making what they should be

Maybe they're really f'n angry and that's sort of who fall into the cracks when you have "leaders" like the last many years have produced.

I'm not absolving anyone of personal responsibility here but have you ever thought of what it's like to be who they are?
Some people I've met have had really bad influences, and there are likely much worse cases.
Have you ever met some people and wondered what must have gone wrong for them?
Take a look around and figure out why it happens first.
If you do that and then still judge people so harshly then do it again until you get it right.
They have the same right to life as pond scum. Some might even say more.
Maybe, like a pond this is what our society produces?

Work / Any Speed School of English in Poland? [54]

To answer a question the OP may eventually ask:
Avoid Andrzej Stoszek like the plague.
He owns those Speed Schools and people I've met always seem to end up having dysfunctional working relationships with the guy.

Oh and one more thing:
DominicB writes major truth above. Damn that's spot on assessment!

Life / Are Polish people brave or scared? [32]


To be objective, what right to life does or doesn't pond scum have?

Life / Are Polish people brave or scared? [32]


why wouldn't they?


some have, some haven't



So much correct in the two posts above

News / Shops in Poland to be closed on Sunday? [208]

I do wonder if this isn't part of some effort to put more money in parish coffers. Y'know, if there's one less place you can spend your money and the church is still open for business then what's stopping them from accepting your heavily encouraged donations?

It doesn't matter to me for the most part but wouldn't put it past politicians or the R.C. Church in Poland to do this purely for financial gain.

Hope it hasn't come to that though.

News / Shops in Poland to be closed on Sunday? [208]


Settle down, no need to get excited; notice the first word here?

News / Shops in Poland to be closed on Sunday? [208]

if that's what the majority want then that's what the majority wants.
Poles lived for quite some time without Sunday shopping so....wait 7 pages have been written on this since it was posted.......never mind.

History / Poland is a Catholic country [177]

So is this thread about whether or not Poles by and large identify themselves as Catholics or something else?