News / Poland's Nationalists hold congress [132]


The only other place they could possibly take their votes from is PO. Aside from that, I don't see anyone else. PSL? rather unlikely, and not much to take anyway... And I doubt a large amount of PO electorate will change their vote to ex-PiS or a party associated in any way with PiS.


I don't see Kaczyński resigning on his own. Which means Poland will probably enjoy a PiS-free rule for a while.

News / Poland's Nationalists hold congress [132]

Honestly, I doubt that 30% of PiS's electorate will suddenly stop supporting them, turn away from Rydzyk, Smoleńsk and the whole chiefdom that Kaczynski created and vote for PJN.

Law / U.S. Citizen Living In Poland - How To Get Non Immigrant Spousal Visa From Poland? [7]

I already replied in the other thread, but I'm gonna leave this here: there is no such thing as a non-immigrant spousal visa. There used to be a K3 visa, but it ultimately led to adjusting status and that was its sole purpose. Your wife needs a B2, which seems she is - unfortunately - unable to obtain.

News / Palikot - too liberal/modern for Poland? [197]


For people like him anything that's modern, freedom based or basically different from his own narrow view set, is considered mental illness. Weird thing they also tend to consider Macierewicz a sane person. Go figure.


What I listed is just a small part of all the good things that the party has to offer.

History / Poland is a Catholic country [177]

You seem to be wrong. I have nothing against religion, as long as it's not forcing anyone to follow its morals or pay up for its upkeep. But it has been said many times in this thread. Reading hurts, doesn't it. Grab a painkiller or two :)

News / Poland's Nationalists hold congress [132]

It was a metaphore.

History / Poland is a Catholic country [177]

I love how bigots on this forum like to insult everything and everyone. And how they call everyone lefties and commies. It would be hilarious only if it wasn't pathetic.

History / Poland is a Catholic country [177]

Yes. It also needs to become more economically taxing. It will keep the leeches happy and the working people angry. Fully agree!

News / PO-PiS again neck and neck [248]


You first.

History / Poland is a Catholic country [177]

You never had any valid arguments in the first place. It's not about winning, but if you feel you won, this is for you. Your ego seems to be wayyyy up there with your nose deep up your ass. You can get lost with your attitude. Good riddance for everyone.

History / Poland is a Catholic country [177]

First of all, answering to most of your quotes would be just reiterating what I said before, and with your pointless and misleading rebuttals we are not going anywhere. Secondly, your manipulative methods of responding make it repulsive for anyone to pick up any sort of well-mannered discussion with you. Here's just one example:


Whereas in your previous post we can read:


Clearly, you are the one who started and you are the one who is crying. You clearly do realize my statement was just a response to your whining. I don't care what you call me. The fact you're trying to insult your adversary each time you reply, instead of coming up with arguments, only shows there is no way of having a civilized conversation with you. Apparently, you do care if I use the word bigot. I didn't use it against you, but damn, if the shoe fits, be my guest and lace it up.

To wrap this up, I'm done exchanging arguments with Ironside in this thread. I leave it up to others to decide the validity and quality of arguments.

News / Poland's Nationalists hold congress [132]

It seems like staying on topic is really hard for certain crusaders in here. Miller should go and die somewhere already.

History / Poland is a Catholic country [177]


That's okay. Not everyone can understand written text. I feel you, but I suggest some English lessons. The point is clear.


I'm just using your exact argumentation and showing how flawed it is by providing a counter-example. Logic 101.


It's not an either / or situation. They should pay taxes on both, just like companies have to pay taxes both on their income and on their employees.


It wouldn't be my business if my money wasn't involved. And since the churches are financed partially from my taxes, well, it's very much my business.


I don't, but NGOs do. That's why NGOs and churches should be under the same law. All non-profit work should be tax free. All for-profit work should be taxed. It's the last time I'm repeating this, maybe it will get through to you one day.


And I already explained to you why it shouldn't be taxed this way.


Can you provide some proof for that? Or are you making up statistics as you go?


That's not marriage, just a civil union. And even that, civil unions are not allowed in Poland, with RCC being one of the main opponents.


That's your point of view.


Why? Maybe she prefers an abortion? Or the contraceptive didn't work? Or a million different reasons, of which none are your or state's business. It's the oppressive law that forces the choice on her. Who are you to tell her what to do with her body? No one.


You're fine with laws restricting personal freedoms and you're telling me I have no idea what freedom is. You, sir, are wrong in the head. Of course it's about what a single person wants. Otherwise it's communism over again. The law should provide them with options, not restrictions.


So you're implying the civilization did fall? Okay.


So far, in this thread, you called me immature and a ******** talker. Does calling other people names make you feel better? Your arrogance and hate? And what else would you call that other than bigotry? It is what it is.


You willfully omit the part, which I repeated at least twice, stating that all-moral related laws should be abolished, if it doesn't infringe personal freedoms of other people. You're a manipulator. No one says homicide or rape are fine.


No one is forcing to get acquainted with a gay couple. No one is forcing you to talk to them. You don't need to pretend anything. It's their life they choose and it's absolutely none of your business. If they want to get married, they should be able to.


Sure. Then let them have civil unions first. Right now RCC is greatly opposed to this idea as well. Also, I assume you prefer kids to be left in a foster home than be adopted out by a gay couple? That just shows how much you care about the fate of the less fortunate.

News / Poland's Nationalists hold congress [132]

I was referring to the holy inquisition. But please stay on topic, you're diverging.

News / Poland's Nationalists hold congress [132]

Miller is as progressive as Christianity in the Middle Ages. Regarding the National Movement - divided righties are good righties. They have no real chance of getting into the Parliament, but will hopefully take some votes away from PiS. It's a win - win scenario.

News / 4th Polish Republic may re-emerge [244]

Some people equate rightism with Hitler, nazism, totalitarism and prawactwo. Your arguments are invalid.

News / 4th Polish Republic may re-emerge [244]

Great! So we're on the same page. Different words, same meanings.

History / Poland is a Catholic country [177]

I must admit I greatly enjoy the conversation.


You don't seem to present any proof. But maybe my seem is wrong too? I stated this many times in at least two threads. If church declares itself as an NGO, it should have proper, transparent financial records just like all other NGOs do. If everything is non-profit, then no taxes and no problem. If any part of it is for-profit, it should be taxed like other for-profit entities.


Your logic is flawed. If you attack Hitler for what he's done, is it only right to point out the positive things he's done for his country?


What shortcomings? Compare my posts and sentences to the parts you have been quoting.


Well, unfortunately, that's not how the tax law works. Companies, organizations and citizens are obliged to submit their declarations every year. Church doesn't declare anything. There are no statistics. Yet we can see more and more money being spent by church and on the church and its ministries. Instead of making assumptions on both ends, let's force the church to disclose this information and show the books. This way we'll know for sure if the church should or should not owe any taxes.


True, but polish churches are built with a huge pomp, and a lot of money is being spent on them.


I'll explain. Officially, the possessions belong to the diocese. The diocese is being funded, in part, by our government from our tax money. Hence, we buy them these possessions.


And let me that explain again to you, because you keep demonstrating a complete lack of understanding of the key problem. Everyone should be treated equally by the law. I would support a situation where everyone is taxed very little. And I can't emphasize this enough: everyone. I absolutely do not support the situation where there is such a great disproportion between how citizens and organizations are taxed so much, and the church not only is exempt from tax, it also receives the taxpayer's money. The RCC should be operating under exactly the same rules as any other NGOs (and if they happen to do for-profit stuff, as any other company). If the state decides to set tax laws, it should make them the same way for everyone, without favoring any churches.


I don't complain about the services. I don't care about the quality of the services provided by the church. I complain about the fact that the church, by organizing a wedding, is clearly a service provider, for which it takes payment, and according to tax law it is a taxable transaction. Well, for everyone else, because apparently the church is exempt.


Of course you don't. And this document only proves that churches are exempt from taxation and bookkeeping on way too many occasions, that no other entities in our country can enjoy. Make it equal for all NGOs.


Your vote is as good as their votes. For some, citizen duties are important, for others personal freedoms are more important. You can't always measure others against yourself, because people have different priorities.


So what, do you propose that we just keep the money flowing until the end of time? We have to draw the line somewhere. When do you suggest is that going to be? How much more money do we need to give (oops, sorry, "return") to the church before enough is enough? To know that, we need to know how much exactly do we owe (or maybe that we don't owe anything anymore and haven't for a long time). Where are the calculations?


And again. Calculations about how much do we still owe. Where are they?


No, but if I want to marry another guy, I can't (can't do taxes together, can't inherit, nothing). If my wife wants to have an abortion, she can't. If we want to have a baby using the in-vitro method, we can't (or soon we won't be able to). There's plenty of examples where morals imposed by the bible followers and state laws intertwine. Any morality-related laws that do not infringe freedoms of other people should be abolished completely.


My bad. I read Catholic.


That doesn't mean we have to hold on to christianity so tightly or write it into law. The highest value of the western world is freedom. Everyone should be able to do as they please, as long as it does not limit freedoms of others. Or are you a supporter of the socialist state, where freedoms are limited?


Progress is the only right path. I also never said RCC was denying these rights. I only said that these - now obvious - rights used to be considered what you called a war on civilization. The civilization did not fall. It thrived. And it will keep on thriving, whether conservative bigots want it or not.


That's why, as I stated before, all moral-related laws should be abolished. Then there won't be a problem. If my wife wants to have an abortion, she should be able to walk into a clinic, pay for it, and have it performed without any legal actions taken against her or anyone "assisting" with it. Just like almost everywhere in the EU. If I want to marry another man, I should be able to. Remove all harmful laws like these and everyone will be able to do according to their will/faith/religion.


It obviously is.


No, they are not trying to impose anything on you. They simply want to exercise their rights as citizens. No one will be forcing you to marry another man if gay marriage is ever signed into law. On the other hand, they are not allowed to get married, because there is an ideological provision of law blocking it. For the gazillionth time - abolish all ideological laws so everyone can enjoy their values and freedoms.


Unfortunately, however similar these concepts seem to be, they are completely different. In German version, each year the state collects X in taxes plus Y in church taxes. It forwards Y to respective churches and still has X for its spendings. In the proposed Polish version, each year the state collects X in taxes, and it forwards Y to respective churches, having only X - Y left for its spendings. It means the missing Y will have to be funded by other means. So basically, all remaining taxpayers will still be funding the church by filling the gap.

USA, Canada / Applying for a US Visa in Krakow? Good and Bad Stories. [18]

Unfortunately, this is how the U.S. law works. She, as a foreign citizen, has no right to travel to the U.S., unless she obtains proper documentation. Even then it's considered a privilege, a benefit, not a right. The fact that you are her spouse does not change anything and doesn't give her any sort of a "free pass" to travel to the U.S. at will. Unless you plan on sponsoring her for a green card, all she can do is apply for a tourist visa with compelling evidence that her intention is not to violate her nonimmigrant status. And the decision always depends on the CO. Sorry.

From another discussion:

Applying for a U.S. Visa (Krakow)


Here: krakow.usconsulate.gov/visas/non-immigrant-visas/how-to-apply.html

And here: poland.usembassy.gov/poland/consular.html

Travel / Polish LOT cancelled my flight... [7]

I never fly LOT on transatlantic routes. Lufthansa, Swiss, but never LOT. It's just a different level of service, comfort and passenger treatment.

News / Palikot - too liberal/modern for Poland? [197]

Means if you go to any governmental institution, all you need to prove something would be a self-written declaration instead of government issued certification or attestation, which takes time and money to obtain.

News / Palikot - too liberal/modern for Poland? [197]

I like certain postulates of Palikot's movement and support them fully:

- flat tax
- limiting the government
- kicking religion out of the schools
- drastic liberalization of abortion laws
- civil unions
- limiting the number of Sejm deputees
- unification of ZUS and KRUS
- reduction of employment costs
- legalization of soft drugs and depenalization of victim-less crimes
- the right to an error and the rule of silent approval
- solid sexual education in public schools
- declarations instead of certifications
- limiting the number of terms each MP can serve in their life.

I disagree with most postulates that create public funding provisions and so called "freebies", because it's our tax money that is being spent to fund that.

USA, Canada / Applying for a US Visa in Krakow? Good and Bad Stories. [18]


Yeah, unfortunately, the arbitrary decision belongs to the CO.

Not only do you need an Affidavit of Support, but you also need a proof of domicile in the U.S. or proof of intent to establish it. Otherwise you cannot be the principal sponsor at all, no matter the income. It's your right to sponsor, but the immigration benefit given is a privilege, not a right. The reason for the need of income is to overcome the public charge inadmissibility provisions.

What you need to do is:

- start looking for a place to live, a job, etc. in the U.S; collect all the proof you have been doing that, so that you can show it to the CO at the time of your fiance's/spouse's interview.

- find a co-sponsor (USC or LPR) that will agree to sign an Affidavit of Support on behalf of your significant other
- make plans to move permanently to the U.S.

History / Poland is a Catholic country [177]


No, it's your fault you snip and cut my quotations according to your liking and reply to them in part, making my statements contextually completely different. It's called manipulation.


Main bulk? Show me some proof, statistics, how much money goes from church to the charity and what percentage is that. Then we can talk.


Voluntary donations... I already explained the term to you in my previous post. Go read it. Also, have you been to any polish church recently? Hardly any gold? Right. And yes, I'm 100% Polish.


And how did the "owners" get the money? Income. Taxed? No.

First search result from google:


superauto24.se.pl/auta-gwiazd/twoj-biskup-jezdzi-limuzyna-za-150-000-zl-zdjecia-czym-jezdza-polscy-biskupi_245777.html


I'm not saying it should be free. It's a service. You're free to choose. I have absolutely no problem in church setting prices for its services. The only problem that I have is that these services should be taxed just like any other services performed by other parties. You willingly omitted my example about the party and the DJ, which was spot-on and you know it.


Check then. But I can tell you right now. The church treats it as a donation. There is no tax distributed from that payment.


My vision is false? Okay, then who elects these idiots to the parliament? Aliens?


You still failed to disclose how much does the state still owe to the parasite that our church is.


I'm being awkward? So, you're telling me the tax money I pay don't go to church or its ministries? Welcome to the alternative reality.


That is not up for you to decide. I, as an atheist, am a minority in Poland. I'm definitely not best protected by "moral" and "ethical" "teachings" of the Church.


Right. Originally protestant or anglican democracies are so negligible that they are not even worth mentioning.


Take a look at the non-religious, and thus uncivilized and savage countries, such as: Estonia, Sweden, Denmark, Czech Republic, Norway, Japan or United Kingdom. How come they are doing pretty well without any religious superstitions?


War on civilization? Interracial relationships used to be just that. Working women used to be just that. What gives you a moral mandate to decide what is "too far"? You're basing your judgement on your own superstitions. You are limiting other peoples' freedoms because of your religious possession. Why, do you think that once gay marriage is singed into law, you'll need to get married to another man? No, and that's the beauty of being able to choose.

But no one is preventing you from following your moral code as a Christian. You don't need to have it signed into law to follow it. Enjoy your freedoms and let others enjoy theirs. What do you consider "very basic democracy"? If it's Christian values, then following your logic, most of the western, civilized Europe is not democratic. That is obviously false.


If you keep on imposing your christian morals on others who don't want to accept them, you are the dangerous idiot here.


Well, have fun looking. Let me know when you come up with something.


We also did accept the EU law in public voting. And you completely are missing the point, which was that the concordat was signed single-handedly - in a very undemocratic manner.


It means religion-free. Separate from religion. Not affiliated with any religion or any church. Look up the definition. It's not something you can discuss, it's something you either understand or not.


No. But it also means that the state is not allowed to force minorities by the majority's vote to support any religion at all. And that's what's happening right now (vide tax money).


Read up, I'm still waiting for the answer.


How about we follow the German path then. These who declare themselves religious, pay an extra tax for their church. This way no money coming from atheists will support any church. Only people (and their children) who pay up will be able to attend religious teachings (in their respective church of course, not a secular school) and get all the perks of being religious. That sounds fair to me.


Pennies? Over 1 billion PLN per year to say the least - you call this pennies?


I am all for a small government. But right now, in our current state of affairs, we are very far from it. This means, everyone has to declare their income and pay hefty taxes. That should include the Church.


Its position should be in religious people's hearts, away from all the politics.


They are. It doesn't change the fact that the church tries to influence the ruling class way too much.


I'm showing you a hypothetic situation, in which a majority, in a democratic way, surpresses the minorities' freedoms. I know the example might be a bit too harsh, but that's exactly how it works. You're happy as long as you beloing to the majority. When you're a part of minority, you have to fight for your rights and freedoms.


Are you calling me dangerously derailed? I'm sorry, but it seems you're the one seriously derailed if you want to control what other people can or can't do, even if it doesn't infringe your personal freedoms.


I still don't understand what you are trying to say here...


If it makes sense, why isn't it permitted by law? This is exactly what I'm talking about - imposing your own moral code on others, by law. It's atrocious. Then, you're against public funding of such procedures, fine. I'm against public funding of most of things. Let the people have their money and decide what's best for them.

As to invocation of conscience clause, it should be abolished altogether. If you're taking the path to study and practice gynecology, one of your duties is to know how to perform an abortion, and to perform it if needed.

News / 4th Polish Republic may re-emerge [244]


I was speaking of PiS.

USA, Canada / Applying for a US Visa in Krakow? Good and Bad Stories. [18]

Yeah, getting a visa to the USA is not a big deal anymore. Only around 10% chance of denial...

News / 4th Polish Republic may re-emerge [244]

Political scum, that's all it is.

USA, Canada / General differences between Poland and the USA? [184]

That's not a difference. That's like comparing apples to oranges...

News / 4th Polish Republic may re-emerge [244]

Yes. Sometimes 100% is 107%, sometimes it's only 93%.

USA, Canada / General differences between Poland and the USA? [184]

Unfortunately, that is true and very disheartening to see...