History / Is Jozef Pilsudski the king of modern Poles? [138]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Józef_Piłsudski#endnote_bnone

He considered himself a Lithuanian raised in Polish culture, he never called himself an ethnic Pole.

History / Is Jozef Pilsudski the king of modern Poles? [138]

Actually, he was a Lithuanian.

History / Have Poles blood on their hands? :) [496]

It obvious that the Polish experience was different from the Jewish and Gypsy experience, but it's wrong to say that Poles were just 'war casualties' the same way the British or the French or the Americans were. They were killed in different ways and for different reasons. We could argue about the term 'Holocaust' but this has to be remembered.

Here's something from Hans Frank. It shows that Nazis themselves weren't sure what to do with Poles:


Should we exterminate or build things up, should the work be created here or in the Reich, should we give up workers or keep them here, should we let the Poles starve or should we feed them?

History / Have Poles blood on their hands? :) [496]


Does anyone remember those 20 million Russians?

History / Have Poles blood on their hands? :) [496]

My grandparents, expelled from Belarus. I apologize if that's a problem.

Grzegorz_
What is the point of digging up an old post from an old thread just to drag on an old argument resolved long ago?

Language / Polish and Hungarian, how similar? [53]

It's never a good idea to write a book about events that happened in another country a long of time ago without active help from people who possess wide knowledge about those times and places. A lot of research is needed and, unfortunately, quite often people read a book about another nation's culture and think that all customs and traditions mentioned there are the same for people from all parts of the country and from all social backgrouds, which is usually false.

My advice is that you should show your manuscript to someone who specializes in East European studies before you decide to publish it. It's better to recieve help from an expert than risk making a mistake which would be later pointed out by reviewers.

Anyway, I'd love to read your book. Could you say more about the plot and the genre?

History / Have Poles blood on their hands? :) [496]


We're talking about pre-WWII Poland, a completely new state which appeared out of nowhere on ethnically mixed lands after more than a century of nonexistence. I'm sure many Russian, German and Austrian citizens didn't wish to suddenly change citizenship, especially if they wanted their own state instead.

History / Have Poles blood on their hands? :) [496]

If they never identified as Poles then obviously they were never Polish.

History / Have Poles blood on their hands? :) [496]

Ironside
Sorry, I lost track of our discussion, I will have to reread the whole thread again and see where we finished.

Harry
It's the same thing as with volksdeutche, Harry - the key-point here is whether these people did what they did as Poles or as Germans/Ruthenians/Whatever else. If someone willingly gives up their national identity and assumes the national identity of an enemy during the times of war just for personal gain then in my mind they lose it forever.

History / Have Poles blood on their hands? :) [496]

What do you think of his other books? Is he a respected historian too, or only in the things you agree with him?


In other words - Gross was right for as long as he said things that you liked to hear. Then he said something you did't like and with that he completely lost credibility.

Well, personally, I wouldn't bring out Gross as an expert on Polish-Jewish relation at all.

PS I still think that Jedwabne and Kielce were shameful incidents and perpetraitors can't be justified by anything.

History / Have Poles blood on their hands? :) [496]


Do you know who was the author of this book? Jan T. Gross ;)

History / Have Poles blood on their hands? :) [496]

And that justifies killing of innocents Jewish women and children by Poles?

Please, don't bother using numbers that are unconfirmed and taken from estimates and statistics. Statistically, more Germans died in WWII than Poles and just as many Germans are estimated to have died in post-war expulsions as Poles during the entire war. Also, numbers-wise, the biggest victims of WWII were Russians - and the number of Russian who died freeing Poland from the Nazis was bigger than the number of Poles killed by Soviets.

In addition to that, Chodaczkiewicz, although a great historian, is a Pole and clearly biased towards Poles - he highlights the numbers that are favourable to Poles and lowers the numbers that are unfavourable. ALWAYS.


Do you even know what this word means?

History / Have Poles blood on their hands? :) [496]

Yes, there were Jewish communists and yes, it would be better if there were less. However it's impossible to say that communism was somehow a 'Jewish' thing. Perhaps you're right and Stalin did put Jews in positions of power because he freaking felt like it, but it's not like seats were given to every Jew that Stalin could find. And it's DEFINITELY not like every single Jew just dreamed of becoming a communist. Please remember that there were also many Jews who took part in anty-commie protests and lots of Solidarity members were Jewish. You can't equate communist sympathies with nationality!

History / Have Poles blood on their hands? :) [496]

In that case I suppose you will be happy to know that after 68 security services became exclusively Polish. Polakomuna.

History / Have Poles blood on their hands? :) [496]


Here's your answer. They didn't think in terms of nationality then.

History / Have Poles blood on their hands? :) [496]

Well, it's the same guy who's bragging about his daddy in communist militia and uses the 'our strets your houses' proverb as if it was positive. Can he get even more stupid?

History / Have Poles blood on their hands? :) [496]

ender
Sorry, could you explain your post to me? I don't understand the context, I'm afraid. What house?

History / Have Poles blood on their hands? :) [496]

1jola
You missed my point. Jewish communists were acting on orders from Poles with the approval of Poles and for as long as Poles allowed them to. So there's nothing to compare, the only thing which their existance proves is that nationality doesn't make anyone a saint or a murderer.

History / Have Poles blood on their hands? :) [496]

1jola
They were acting with full approval of their Polish commie collegues and then they were kicked out. I hate them, but I'm far from appying collective guilt.

yehudi
Fair point.

History / Have Poles blood on their hands? :) [496]


Ridiculous.
But the author of this blog actually BRAGGING about his communist daddy is just as riddiculous.


Obviously not. But have YOU actually read this nonsense? The author of that blog is a person who dedicates all of his free time to find as much sh*t on Poles as he can, no matter if it's true or not, just to show 'those nasty Poles' in a bad light. He's the exactly same kind of person as our dear forum antisemites.


Dude, it's a Holywood production. There's no place for actual moral complexity there.


327 confirmed, 1000/2000 estimated. Out of 180,000–240,000 Jews who survived. And it was 2/3% of total victims of post-war violence. I understand that Jews felt threatened but feeling threatened is a completely different thing from actually being in a mortal danger.


Szmalcowniks are described as a Polish phenomenon even though Anne Frank didn't survive a war because she was betrayed by a Dutchman. Also post-war violence is called a Polish phenomenon, not a Romanian, Slovak or Ukrainian phenomenon although pogroms and killings of Jewish returnees happened plenty of times over there too. And yet, nobody cares, because Poland is treated like some sort of symbol of antisemitism.

History / Have Poles blood on their hands? :) [496]

In Jedwabne's case a bunch of moronic Poles were definitely perpetraitors. The rest of the town was simply too scared of the Germans' reaction to stop the slaughter. But you can't call them ALL just bystanders.

History / Have Poles blood on their hands? :) [496]

Ironside
And I think you just don't understand my point. Read some of my earlier posts and you'll see that I'm always very much against applying colective guilt to my own nation. I just think that the rare, but definitely true cases of wrongdoings and shameful incidents need to be acknowledged.

Grzegorz
I agree completely. So what's the problem?

History / Have Poles blood on their hands? :) [496]

What I mean is that a big number of defenceless women and children were killed by people of Polish ethnicity solely because of their nationality. We could argue about the circumstances but the fact still stands.

And by THIS kind of argument I meant the kind of argument that lasts three pages with repeated use of statements which were used in other three-pages-long argument from another thread.

Life / Why do people think that I'm Polish ? [92]

I have asiatic folds too. Apparently it's quite common among Polish people. Epicanthic folds are also known as 'Mongolian eye folds' which kinda explains a lot.


My family from both sides has black hair. I'm being asked if their dyed all the time.

History / Have Poles blood on their hands? :) [496]

Sigh. No, I don't want to get into THIS kind of argument again so I will just say that I'm absolutely certain that Jedwabne and Kielce did happen and nothing you say can convince me otherwise.

History / Have Poles blood on their hands? :) [496]


I certainly hope you meant something else by this.

History / Have Poles blood on their hands? :) [496]

yehudi
Such incidents did take place and it's very saddening but I don't like the way this subject is usually brought up. People usually make it sound as if postwar murders were a rule, not an exception, carried out by the whole Polish population, not just a handful of degenerates, with the blessing from the rest of the population (maybe even handing out rewards for every Jewish head) and of course limited only to Poland and to Jews.

Barney
I agree. The author of this article is spot-on.

History / Have Poles blood on their hands? :) [496]

Ah, I didn't mean Jews from Central and Eastern Poland. And it's not like I suggested that it was the Jews who dispossessed Poles. Rather the opposite, really, if someone buys a house with their own money then obviously it's theirs, nothing evil or sinister about it. I was just poking fun at the guy who uses a proverb that was born out of resentment for a perceived injustice to battle the exactly same kind of injustice.

Travel / Is it safe to travel to Poland? [194]

dtaylor5632
Also, we eat their babies.

History / Polish hatred towards Jews... [1290]

- edit
Well, with your edit it doesn't matter anymore

BTW I am not tolerant. I am a raging anti-antisemite.