Polonia / Ever been to Sweden? [185]

Krysia!

Me again. A favorite saying of mine sums up the sometimes annoyingly homogeneous character of the Swedes, moreso certainly than the Poles, and even other related Scandinavian neighbors of the Swedes, i.e. the Danes and the Norwegians:

"Because I get dressed at a certain time each morning, means everyone else in the world is putting on their pants!"

Polonia / Ever been to Sweden? [185]

Kryśiu!

Sorry you 'missed' my message to you yesterday in Polish (our administrators must have deleted it, surprise, surprise -:) LOL ). As far as the Swedes being "cool", perhaps this peceived open mindedness revolves around the stereotype of them as being somehow more sexually liberated than those in Roman Catholic societies, such as Poland or Spain. France though, at least nominally Catholic, would seem the exception to the rule.

I too found and find the Swedes quite open on matters of personal freedom, yet very proscriptive on matters of social behavior, as compared say to the Americans. Swedes definitely don't tolerate unsocial behavior, even among strangers, and speak their minds far more bluntly than the average US-citizen!

Polonia / Ever been to Sweden? [185]

Krzysztof,

The Swedes, unlike the Poles, take a longer period of 'warming up to'! They are not often given to spontaneous outbursts of either affection or outrage. Witness the old joke about the Finn and the Swede playing chess, sitting for many hours in frozen silence; looking at one another, finally one of them breaks the ice:

Finn: Sven-Aake. It's your move.

Swede: (slamming his fist on the table) Do you want to talk, or play chess!!!

Polonia / Ever been to Sweden? [185]

Osiol,

You're doubtless referring to 'Abba' and other 60's rock groups, correct? While that's true, Dan's also right in saying that the Swedish language as a legitimate vehicle for linguistic expression, even in an English-dominated industry such as music, is making a comeback!

Polonia / Ever been to Sweden? [185]

'We are addicted to our language......."

And that's as it should be, Daniel. TACKA VET JAG.....

Polonia / Ever been to Sweden? [185]

Dan,

When I was in Poland, round about 1997, I didn't even try to speak English, even German was a long shot! True, when I was in Sweden, as I just finished telling Krysia, everybody and his grandmother wanted to practice their English with me!

Honestly, from the point of view of 'practicing' English, I've no problems in speaking English in countries, even where I speak the language fluently, e.g. Scandinavia, Germany, Austria, Spain, Poland etc. My problem is in Northern Europe particularly, when people occasionally ignore the distinction between merely 'practicing' vs. actually 'speaking' a language, in this case English!

If a Swede, young or old, responds to my Swedish in English (which never really happened, I must admit), I will respond, "Oh, would you like to practice your English?" For what then is the difference between me 'practicing' my Swedish and a Swede practicing his/her English??

Polonia / Ever been to Sweden? [185]

Go' mor'ron, Dan Gunnarsson!
Appreciate your prompt reply as well as your e-mail (which I just answered!) No, your English seems about par for the course, at least for most Swedes whom I've met during my sojourns (uppehaal) to Sweden, not to mention those whom I've also met abroad. No understanding difficulties I can see thus far.

Hope to be in touch again soon!

Polonia / Ever been to Sweden? [185]

Hej, Dan88Swe!

Varifraan i Sverige kommer du saa? Jag kanner ratt bra Goteborg,Boraas och Bohuslan. Tyvaar har jag aldrig varit tillbaka sedan 1989, och det ar ju ett styck tid. Naagra manniskor hade berattet mig, att de flesta svenskarna talar engelska, nastan som sitt modersmaal. Det var inte sant, darfor att, maanga unga studenter kunde forstaa amerikanska vardagsidiomer, men de gjorde saa maange fel, att jag inte kunde fortsatta prata med dem. De ville garna forbattre min svenska, men de hade ingen lust till, att jag skulle vilja korrigera deras 'misatagar' paa engelska!

And now (Forum Rules) in English. I loved Sweden; its cooking, its landscapes, culture etc. and was forewarned that most of them spoke English. I was disappointed (besviket) though that their English wasn't better than it actually was. Gosh, even educated Poles often speak better English (more classically correct, that is!) - -:) I found it immeasurably more practical and enjoyable to speak Swedish, rather than English, with them.

Language / Przypadki (Polish language cases) [59]

dziękuję!

Language / Przypadki (Polish language cases) [59]

In English phonetics, roughly

V-sound (but NOT 'vee', more schwa 'vuh') TEWSHYAWWNTS TRISTA AWSSHYEM
GYEHSHAWNTUHM PYAWNTUHM RAWKOO and all, except for the 'gyeSHAWNTUHM'
part, accented on the first or primary syllable.

In Polish 'Tysiąc trysta osiemdziesiątym piątym ..' etc.

Hope this helps a little!

Polonia / Ever been to Sweden? [185]

Hejsan!
Ja, jag har varit tvaa gaanger i Sverige, i Goteborg och i Boraas. Goteborg ar en absolut vacker stad.

Unfortunately though, I'll have to continue in English (or Polish), as this is PF.
I've never been to Ystad, although of course I've heard of it.
Next on my trip though is Stockholm, 'Staden paa vattnet'! (Miasto na jeziorze).

Hej daa!

Language / Usage of Polish Instrumental Case? [22]

The Instrumental Case ("narzednik", in Polish!) is funny. On the one hand, it's true that what seems to English speakers as pure nominative, e.g. the verb "to be", takes the Instrumental in Polish "Jestem Polakiem.", "On jest lekarzem.", "Czy Pan jest tlumaczem?" etc. The exception here is in more informal speech, such as "On nauczyciel, nieprawda?", without the verb 'to be' in the clause.

There are, by the way, a number of verbs which require the Instrumental Case, as other verbs require the Dative, Accusative or Genitive, which I frankly don't all recall, except, oddly enough, the verb "interesowac sie" = to be interested in

"Interesuje sie rolnictwem." = I am interested in agriculture

Like in German, in Polish, a case ending will be used without a preposition which would be necessary in English, for example, "to be interested IN" ....

Marek

Language / Przypadki (Polish language cases) [59]

Norwegian is relatively easy for me, having already studied the two other Scandinavian languages Danish and Swedish.

It is though, far more polarized than either of these two, since there are essentially three official "languages" in Norway; Bokmaal, Riksmaal (formerly Dano-Norwegian) and Nynorsk (formerly "landsmaal").

Snakker du tilfaeldigt norsk??
Marek

Language / Przypadki (Polish language cases) [59]

HAL!

Finnish, as with other related Uralic tongues, shares with the Baltic group along with the more "conservative" languages, a richly intricate morphology.

Polish, slightly more Latinized though in its higher-level vocabulary, retains this intricacy.

Marek

Language / Polish/Ukrainian words similarities [209]

Sidewinder!

No, umiesz zrozumiec, co pisze? Jezyk ukrainski ma roznicy z samoglosami, n.pr. "nic" (wymowiony "nicz") przeciw "noc", "pozny" przeciw "pizny" itd.

Your written English though seems unusually good! Most Slavic speakers make numerous obvious usage errors, e.g. the person-tense agreement, yet you seem to make almost none of those. I'm delightfully surprised. Have you spent time here in the States, studied or visited the UK??

Marek

Language / Przypadki (Polish language cases) [59]

Native American!
As a linguist and speaker of various Slavic as well as Germanic languages, I must disagree with your tack. One cannot in good conscience say, "a language has too many cases!"... etc. or that a language is too complicated.

The latter simply suggests a personal frustration with that particular language. Icelandic, which you mention, is an especially rich and textured language, and, like Polish, rich in inflection, which is what endows it with its own particular music.

Marek

Language / Polish/Ukrainian words similarities [209]

Osiol!

With the topic "false friends", you've hit upon one of the most fascinating, yet misunderstood, areas in linguistics, fascinating at least to me. A certain Prof. Daniel Buncic, a Croatian linguist, has published a monumental paper on precisely this subject. He cites as examples Pol. "pismo" (work of writing, written opus) vs. Russ "pismo" (letter), Pol. Russ. "slovo/"slowo" (word) vs. Cr. "slovo" (letter of the alphabet) and numerous others.

Marek

Language / Need help with a Polish word/spelling Basia [20]

...and the (non-idiomatic) expression: "Matko Boska!", "Ale Matko Boska!", both roughly equivalent to such exclamations as "Mother o' Mary!", "Saints preserve us!" etc.

Marek

Language / Need help with a Polish word/spelling Basia [20]

"Boska" by the way, is also used in the fixed phrase in Polish: " Matka Boska Czestochowa" = The Black Madonna of Tschenstochau (German spelling here --:) )

Marek

Language / Przypadki (Polish language cases) [59]

Wiem, ze moja ortografia jest blada.
Rowniez!

Marek

Language / Przypadki (Polish language cases) [59]

Hoi, Eseva!

Ik ken toch Mickiewicz en andere schrijvers (in 't Pools), b.v. Slowiacki en Sienkiewicz enz.

Trouwens ken ik ook deze tongebreker. In 't Duits: "Der Kaefer summt im Schilf. " = The beetle buzzes in the reeds (bullrushes).

Maar ik moet alleein een fout verbeteren: "....I have less trouble THAN with Polish.."

Daaaag!
Marek

PS
"Enige" heb ik fout gespellt.("Einige" is al Duits!)

Language / Przypadki (Polish language cases) [59]

Nou, de Polen zijn niet echt goed, hebben toch geduld, toen buitenlanders zoals ik hun taal spreken. -:)

Marek
Typisch voor de Polen, als ze proberen, Engels te spreken: "Ai ahmm stahsjink ahtt ooniwersituh Ienglisch lahngwitsch,, trrraijink tu betterrr spikink.....

Hoi, hoi Eseva!

Tak, plynnie mówie po holundersku, ja, ik kan vloeiend Nederlands, omdat ik 't privé hadde gelerd 'n daarna op de universiteit gestudeerd. Ik ben ook einige dagen in Nederland geweest, toevallig was m'n vriendin Haagse!

Ale moze tu jest lepiej, "chatowac" po polsku (albo po angielsku!). Jak dobrze (Hoe goed) mówisz po angielsku (spreek je al Engels)? Czy czytasz literature klasysczna w jezyku angielskim? (Lees je burgerlijke literatuur in 't Engels?)

Pa!
Marek

DLA ADMINYSTRATORÓW:

Eseva and I were posting regarding my fluency in Dutch and Polish. I asked about how good the level of English is, as well as whether the person also reads solid bourgeoise prose fiction. That was it!

Language / Przypadki (Polish language cases) [59]

Eseva,
Nou, goeiemiddag!

Why you love the Slavonic cases I can well understand (being myself also fluent in Dutch) being that Dutch has lost almost all of theirs.

Marek

Language / Przypadki (Polish language cases) [59]

"Przypadki" means "cases", grammatical or otherwise.

The case tables have already been provided by Yvonka, myself and a few others who, unlike me, are either native speakers or Brits who've lived and worked in the EU.

Anyway, that's what it means. The singular, incidentally, is "przypadek"! In the plural form of all nouns ending with "-ek", "przypadek", "statek" (ship), etc., the final "t" inverts and the "e" disappears, therefore, "przypadek" > "przypadki" and NOT "przypadeki"!! Welcome to the vagueries of Polish (almost as insane as those of English spelling -:) )

Marek

Language / Polish Past Tense [47]

I'm afraid though, I find them a trifle more unkind (and infinitely more racist!) than the Austrian jokes. :)
Marek

PS
The Irish have historically gotten a rather bum deal. The Austrians, on the other hand, get all the ribbing they deserve!!!

Language / Polish Past Tense [47]

Hello, "Hello"!

Now, now let's keep things on a friendly basis. Ethnic stereotypes are often just that, and help noone.
Besides, everyone knows that the Hungarians top even the Poles in this respect (followed of course by the Austrians) :) :)

Joke: What's the national passtime in Austria?
Answer: Complaining.

Marek

Language / Polish Past Tense [47]

Michal,
Of course, Ivonka, Grzegorsz and other native Poles who though know English "fluently", make plenty of mistakes in it as well. This doesn't however in any way diminish the helpfulness of some of their posts, particularly if one has no immediate access to a grammar.

The age old struggle: fluency vs. accuracy :)

Marek

Language / Polish Past Tense [47]

Hello, Detroit!
I presume English is your native language. (Joke: Are you an American? - No, I just play one on TV. (groan!) ) :)
As a matter of fact, noone, least of all myself, was "criticizing"anyone, certainly not Ivonka, whose comprehensive posts are a pleasure undiguised.

"It is I." however, I must disappoint you, IS actually grammatically correct. I was merely using it as an example of how overcorrect usage can oddly enough be "wrong".

Marek

Language / Polish Past Tense [47]

Bart,

Po angielsku jest poprawny "It is I." NIE: "It's me." Jednak mowi sie "It's me.", bo jest akzeptowany. :)

Pozdrawiam!
Marek

Language / Polish/Ukrainian words similarities [209]

Michal,

That's true enough what you say. Nonethless, Polish seems to have a slightly more intricate morphology as well as phonological structure than other Slavic languages, including Russian (Slovene though, does have a vestigial "dual" form!).

Apart from stress patterns in Polish, an added difficulty in pronunciation, is the proto-slavic, i.e. left over, nasals in Polish vowels "a" and "e", a phenomenom no longer found, for example, in Modern Russian or in Ukrainian.

Marek