USA, Canada / Do you speak English? Have you lived in America? New LOVE/HATE list......... [144]


yep, and it works both ways. the questions I get from Americans about Poland......embarrassing. I keep telling myself, "i couldn't have been THAT ignorant before I came."

It's all in how the rest of the world, or a select country for that matter, is portrayed through magazines, television programs/news programs, culture, kitchen table discussions, etc. If you're a 10 year old kid and you hear enough times how "France sucks, I won't buy their wine anymore," after a while some start to get the same mindset, even if they don't know why.

USA, Canada / Do you speak English? Have you lived in America? New LOVE/HATE list......... [144]

Delphiandomine, is it really that difficult to follow simple rules? you could choose ANY thread on this forum and post your senseless babble on it but you insist on posting here when I specifically asked you to stay away. you know what this thread is about, the criteria I requested and you know you don't satisfy them all.

I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that you have never lived/worked in America, rendering your opinions on this thread useless. we don't want to hear it.

Maybe you just don't get it in English....sprobuje wyasnic w inny sposob:

no spadaj stad no! kurcze pieczone, to co, po prostu ciagle piszesz tu ale w ogole nie zwracasz uwagi na to co juz pisalem do ciebie?! Masz dziure w glowie? Prosze pana, wydaje mi sie ze dajesz mi sie we znaki.......bez powodu.

zobaczymy czy to dziala czy nie.......

USA, Canada / Do you speak English? Have you lived in America? New LOVE/HATE list......... [144]


the domestic stuff is generally crap, but the micro-brews.....ahhhh, the microbrews, and they're available in basically any liquor store for the same price as an import. the best beer I've ever had is from America. Fat Tire from Colorado, Anchor Steam from San Francisco, Brooklyn Brewery....the list goes on.


not really. Lech, Zywiec, Tyskie, Warka, Zubr, Okocim, Piast....all sub-par beers, and all basically the same in character/taste. In Poland, I drink imports. I would like to try more of the hard-to-find Polish beers, maybe they're good, but as a whole, no, Polish beer isn't good and doesn't hold a candle next to the other "beer countries." Czech Rep., Slovakia, Belgium, Ireland, England, Netherlands, arguably Germany as well, all have better mass produced beer on the shelves.

USA, Canada / Do you speak English? Have you lived in America? New LOVE/HATE list......... [144]

What I like about the USA:

convenience.

great road systems.

ethnic food.

cheap food.

the almost limitless choices of food.

the ocean.

opportunity in general and the accessibility of goods in general.

NYC.

amazing sport fishing.

MLB, NFL, NHL. there's always something to watch on TV.

all the other TV programs on at night, every night, that have you laughing the whole time. I love American comedy.

Pizza. Pizza deserves it's own line.

Coke/Pepsi products that actually taste like Coke/Pepsi products.

parking.

customer service.

someone else mentioned micro-brews.....I second that.

What I like about Poland:

life is slower, more deliberate and one could argue that it's more simplistic because of it's slow pace.

safety. by 10:00 o'clock, the city shuts down completely excluding the rynek and you can walk around your neighborhood feeling safe.

pork products. the pork in Poland is superior to the pork in America.

chicken standing alone i'd say is better in Poland as well, but I prefer American recipes.

families are close.

ok.....gotta say it.....polish women. sure, plenty of them are neurotic, but my fiance is amazing.


Because if you don't meet the criteria in my OP, what I just wrote above would have been impossible. This is "PolishForums"......I'm not going to start a thread discussing just America. Go back and read my OP. The thread was inspired by previous threads about similar things, only my thread weeds out people passing judgment that have never lived/worked in country. You know....opinions worth listening to. Sorry pappy.


hell, i'm all for it. I meet all those criteria (to keep things honest, I'd say I'm an intermediate speaker but entirely communicative, my grammar far exceeds what I consider to be my small vocabulary, but I study non-stop....it's getting better and better every day) and because of this, I see Poland/America with different eyes than most.

hence, why I started this thread. real opinions from experienced people, not from some internet jockey.

feel free to make your own thread like you mentioned, just don't post here.

USA, Canada / Do you speak English? Have you lived in America? New LOVE/HATE list......... [144]

Delphiandomine wrote:


Please see post #6.


surely better than your eyesight/reading comprehension.

USA, Canada / Do you speak English? Have you lived in America? New LOVE/HATE list......... [144]


THAT is simply not true.

Like you said, take a look at the numbers, but look at them how they should be looked at. Of course you will find countries higher than America....but should we even be considering countries in say Africa, where the entire country lives in mud huts with a small group of people holding all the money and living in a palace? South/Central America isn't much different. Most of the people in those countries work in a factory taking home $3 a day, with a few uber-rich guys at the top basically controlling the country and trafficking drugs through Mexico. Is it any mystery as to why say Bolivia is sitting at 59.2?

The real numbers you need to pay attention to are the industrialized countries.

according to wikipedia, The United States of America ranks third only to the PR of China and Hong Kong in Gini coefficients if you eliminate South/Central America and Africa, and we all know what life is like for hundreds of millions of Chinese.

Speaking of displacement/wastes of money, let us not forget how many BILLIONS of dollars are burned every year due to illegal immigration costs. In California alone, they estimate a YEARLY cost of 10 billion:

usgovinfo.about.com/od/immigrationnaturalizatio/a/caillegals.htm

i recently read an article putting America's yearly illegal immigration costs at 68 billion. that's more than Bill Gate's entire net worth.


can't argue with that. spending habits and general way of life has to change but it doesn't change the fact that rich people earn way too much money and a lot of less fortunate people suffer from it in America.

USA, Canada / Do you speak English? Have you lived in America? New LOVE/HATE list......... [144]

Delphianedomine wrote:


like i said Delphianedomine, if you can't meet the 3 criteria I listed in my OP, don't post here.

And no Ziemowit, you don't get a free pass just because you think that "everything in America is fantastic."

I don't want to have to play police here, but I made a very simple request with this thread. Please abide by it.

convex....great post.


i'm hoping this is heading for change. Obama is working on changing tax brackets right now, giving anyone earning $250,000 or less a tax break. It's attempting to tax the rich more, but it's yet to be seen if it will generate more small private business owners.

the whole source of financial problems in america lately, as far as I can see, is the lop-sided salaries within companies. there's nowhere in the world that has a bigger gap between Joe Blow the employee and the CEO of the company. The money is there, it's just going into the wrong hands. If the top 1% in America would take even a 10% cut in pay, unemployment would virtually disappear.

USA, Canada / What do the Poles hate and love about the U.S.? [170]

I don't have to post this, I'm sure most of the posters have already seen it, but yes, as predicted, you, Delphianedomine, completely dodged my perfectly direct, simple questions. POST #119

Resorting to pointing out a spelling mistake?......dude, I didn't think even YOU could be THAT lame. I mean honestly, is that all you got?

ANSWER THE QUESTIONS WEE MAN.....actually, maybe not. The embarrassment may be too uncomfortable even to read.

And yes, that's me calling you a Nancy.

Nancy.

USA, Canada / What do the Poles hate and love about the U.S.? [170]

Delphianedomine, I can't even begin to respond to your post, it's utterly ridiculous.

Maybe we'll try this:

Let's cut the fat and start asking really straightforward questions. Why don't you tell me where this extreme animosity comes from towards America, and while you're at it, fill us in on the source of your apparent blind love for Poland.

I would also like to know if you've ever been to America, where, and for how long.

Last time I challenged you directly like this Delph, you dodged it. Twice. No more cut and paste BS statistics, no more comparisons....let's get real now, me boy.

Either you will prove to me you have real reason to be like this or that your merely another blow-hard America hater.

For what it's worth, I wouldn't mind hearing some responses to the same questions from the other Anti-America horn blowers. Might as well, I expect another dodged bullet from Delph. Either way, this post puts this thread back on topic again.

USA, Canada / What do the Poles hate and love about the U.S.? [170]


absolutely nothing, which is essentially the point. getting your news from Polsat and TVN along with never even setting foot in America does not give someone license to pass judgment, which is what i routinely hear in my classrooms and on this forum, day in, day out. they make comparison after comparison about what they have here, the way people act, and that america is this, that and the other thing and how americans think and........and..........blehhh.......

I don't have to get my information about Poland from the internet or the Fox news channel. I've been living in Poland over 3 years. That's a hell of a lot more than what 99.9% of these America criticizing Poles can say when talking about America. I'm the first guy to bring up America's faults, there are plenty of things that bother me about my home country and it's people, but at least my opinion comes from seeing things with my own eyes, not through drinking the Polish news channel Kool-Aid along with listening to all the rest of the Anti-American propaganda in Poland.

there is NOTHING wrong with Poland. I live here, and I like living here, but I know what Poland is. I don't have to guess, therefore I can make statements about Poland, just the same as I can make statements about America, because I know the differences between the two countries. It's not a matter of "A is better than B so nah-nah-nah-nah-boo-boo," it's simply calling a spade a spade. You are what you are, nothing more, nothing less.

Go there, live the life, work, pay bills/taxes, speak to people in their native language and then make your comparisons. until then, let your grandmother do the complaining.

USA, Canada / What do the Poles hate and love about the U.S.? [170]


regarding that chart of "data", besides the fact that it's 10 years old, it's given in "number of people" regardless of how they entered the country. The number that counts is the number of people who were given a travel visa, entered the US, and never returned. That IS the argument we are having, is it not? The argument is why Poles aren't given free travel rights to America and specifically why America refuses, no?

In that list, you have 10 countries. Of the 10, 8 are countries south of the USA, either part of the continent of South/Central America or an island, and nearly all those people probably crossed through Mexico somewhere illegally. We all know how many south/central americans cross over into America and stay illegally. These are not people who were issued travel visas and never returned.

So how can you compare that to Poland? The real table you need to look at is the number of people given travel visas from different countries, and how many of them come back before their visa expires. That's where the numbers are generated regarding "risk of not returning". In 2007, Poland from what I understand was over 20%, and in 2008, over 13%. They just lowered the acceptable value to enter the visa waiver program to 3%, which means Poland needs to change their travel habits, and change them fast. Wait until you start following the rules and satisfy the criteria in order to enter the visa waiver program before you start crying "Yankee prejudice!".

As for you Ironside, this is directed to you because I'm tired of reading your incoherent babble: someone could post just about anything in favor of your argument, regardless of how inaccurate or unrelated, and as long as it supports your cause, you'd hop up on the soap box and start shouting like a lunatic again. honestly me boy, stop, take a breath, and think about what you're looking at. I've met and taught 1,000 of these cookie-cutter America hating 20-something Poles. You're all the same. You hate America yet have never been there and know nothing about it. America hating in Poland is just the fashionable thing to do. Reminds me of the French haters in America. They hate the French, boycott French products, but if you were to approach them and ask why, they couldn't formulate a reasonable answer.

I am a firm believer that if you open the doors for Poland to travel freely to the USA, too many people leave to work in America, many of them will not return, and Poland's economy takes an already bigger hit due to skilled/educated people leaving to work elsewhere to find a better life. What happened in England/Ireland wouldn't compare to the exodus of Poles to America. Take away the economic crisis, or turn the clock back 8-10 years and open the USA border to Poland, and you literally have enough people leaving Poland to create a devastating blow to Poland's economy.

Believe it. Swallow your pride my Polish comrades, and believe it.

I don't have any hatred or animosity towards Poland at all, but what I'm flat out sick and tired of is Polish citizens talking about a country they simply don't have. Yes, you have Poland, but it's just that. It's Poland, and it's time you all come to realize just what that is and the realities of where you live. Enjoy the good's but don't try and mask or pretend or choose to ignore the bad's. A country that ceases to see and accept their bad's cannot improve itself, a common problem in my home country as well. Ultra-patriotism is a dangerous thing......I see it all too often and it forces you to completely lose touch with reality. Learn to call a spade a spade and then you can have rational conversation about topics such as "what poles hate and love about the U.S.".

USA, Canada / What do the Poles hate and love about the U.S.? [170]


I keep hearing this rationale, but fail to recognize how this is some big gift to America. First of all, one would have to assume that this war is entirely in America's interest and has nothing to do with the security of others, meaning that terrorism along with the threat of nuclear weapons would not affect other countries in Asia, Europe, etc. in the future if these terrorist groups were left alone. I don't want to argue reasons for going/staying in the middle east to fight wars, but you are in fact making the assumption that the only country that benefits from defeating world terrorism is America.....so every country fighting in this war deserves some sort of present for being there.

I'm sure you aren't suggesting that just Poland deserves something, right?

If the war in the middle east ends up protecting other countries from say a nuclear attack, would those countries then owe Poland for sending troops to Iraq/Afghanistan?

You mention NATO as a "bargaining chip".....does "NATO" stand for "The Organization of Protecting ONLY America"? One could argue all day long whether or not NATO is worth the money or how poorly it's run, but in the end NATO is an alliance for protecting its neighbors in time of need. Why would America then be obliged to give Poland some sort of present for joining? Sorry to say buddy, but America gains very little with Poland on their side regarding national security compared to what Poland has to gain.

Let's take a closer look at dear ole' Poland:

holocaust less than 70 years ago? check.

years of communism forced upon them by neighboring Russia, only ending 20 years ago? check.

an abysmal military if attacked by any bordering countries? check.

you tell me who deserves a gift.

Regardless of whether or not the Poles "deserve" a visa waiver when entering the states, the visa restriction on Poland is there for a reason and the Polish govt. along with many of its citizens know this reason, or reasons, all too well.

Besides, as you said Delphiandomine, "most Poles think America sucks," right?.....so what's the big deal? Who from Poland wants the visa waiver anyway? Who from Poland wants to go to such a "sucky" country anyhow? ;)

I guess the whole argument is moot after all.

Life / Do expats living in Poland speak Polish? [233]

HAHAHA..........szach-mat.

apparently stevepl is the only one on this forum who was given a license for clever posting.

watch it boys. stay here too long and you'll lose your sense of humor all together.

enjoy the weather, i'm off to bed.

-The Fuzz

Life / Do expats living in Poland speak Polish? [233]


this statement, when considering context and sarcasm coupled with the posts that came shortly before and after, says so much about soooo many other issues/threads/arguments/debates on this forum. maybe you don't recognize it right away, but for those cheering on the author of that statement, it will come back to haunt you......


most certainly: chicago.msz.gov.pl/en/

That's the main page of The Consulate General of the Republic of Poland in Chicago, written entirely in Polish. You can click on the USA flag for English, but Polish is given priority.

Life / Do expats living in Poland speak Polish? [233]

Ehhhhccchhh! If I must....it's been a while since I had a go at Delphianedomine......


If pants and sweaters and jackets weather is "perfectly warm" for you, so be it. Others have different expectations.


man, you are so predictable. the "why are you here" comment. Regardless of why I'm here Delphianedomine, it doesn't change the fact that my statement was a true statement. I'm calling a spade a spade, much like the original post I quoted and commented on did.


That's an interesting, and entertaining theory, considering "the general public" has never even been to America. If you add up those that have never been there with the number of people that don't even speak English, meaning they have to get all their information about America on TVN and Polsat, you'd have an even bigger number, and that number would beeeeeeeee.................the majority of Poland. MEANING, if your theory is true, most people in Poland are ignorant and their opinions unjustified regarding the USA.

Whatever you need to tell yourself at night when your head hits the pillow so you can sleep comfortably, Delphine.


that's a simple answer: because 1.5 BILLION PEOPLE speak it as a second language in the world. it's DOMINANTLY the international language of the world. what other reason do you need. it's simply good business.


you couldn't be more wrong, but you've got such an anti-american agenda, there's no convincing you otherwise, making you just as bad, or worse, than who you CLAIM I am.

Life / Do expats living in Poland speak Polish? [233]


May, unpredictable weather and routinely sees temperatures under 10C. September? Even colder than May often times.

delphiandomine wrote:


how many times are you gonna use that line on someone when you have nothing else to say. Mind you all, it generally comes right after someone puts down Poland in a strong way, and is for the most part right on point. Like:

yeah, I know comments like that sting Delphiandomine, but just learn to come to terms with the fact that the general public thinks Poland sucks in general, along with it's language.


wrong, wrong and wrong. Let me give you an example of how ridiculous you sound: English isn't hard! Ok, so I don't use any articles, I only use 2 tenses, I can't form any conditionals, I don't really understand any phrasals, my sentence structure is a bit messed up, but I can communicate just fine! Piece of cake!

If you speak a language grammatically incorrect, such as no declensions in Polish, I can assure you that people do not understand you "just fine" and you don't understand them nearly as well as you think. We'll see what tune you start singing when you sit down with a Polish teacher for a few months and they teach you how to REALLY speak the language and not sound like a caveman. After 3 months of the teacher correcting every single sentence you create because it's the farthest thing from grammatically correct, talk to me about what you think of the Polish language. What a joker.


sometimes i guess i underestimate the stupidity on this forum. let me ask you this....you cross the border into Poland and you want residency......you have 90 days to do so before your travel visa expires.....and in that time, you're supposed to march into all necessary Polish offices and take care of business.....IN POLISH? whatever or whomever, it's a bad idea having a governmental office completely absent of english speakers. it only makes things more difficult for foreigners hoping to come here and work/live. period.

Life / Do expats living in Poland speak Polish? [233]

sure.

if i so much as spit out one grammatically correct polish sentence in public, everyone's head turns in amazement, followed by, "you speak Polish?........but........why?!"

USA, Canada / REFUSED A HOLIDAY VISA TO THE U.S CAUSE IM POLISH [323]

right, because there aren't any white europeans living in america..........................

USA, Canada / REFUSED A HOLIDAY VISA TO THE U.S CAUSE IM POLISH [323]


you're right. if you're living in America illegally, have no benefits or rights, it's "not all that".................?

USA, Canada / REFUSED A HOLIDAY VISA TO THE U.S CAUSE IM POLISH [323]

for all the fist pumping Poles and expat Polish sympathizers out there, consider this:

i routinely here Polish people say, "it's bull$hit that America won't let us go to america without a VISA! they let the czech rep. go, Germany, so many other countries......we have troops in the middle east fighting their stupid war! we deserve VISA rights!"

and i'd say 15% of the time, I hear,"they can't open up the borders for Poland, way too many Poles would leave. there already are millions of Poles living in America, many of them illegal."

with more and more 20 somethings speaking English in Poland, along with the job market getting more and more competitive, a move to America for many Poles just graduating college is not an irrational thought. look at what happened when Poland joined the EU.....how many educated doctors left, skilled laborers, fluent English speakers left for England, Ireland, Scotland, etc.

have any of you ever considered that the Polish government doesn't WANT the borders to open in America for Polish citizens? Poland has about 40 million people with a very high concentration of old retired communist era people sitting at home watching Polsat and collecting government checks. if so much as 1 million Poles between the ages of 18 and 35 left for America.....about 2% of the country.....it would be devastating to Poland's economy and the well being of it's citizens. The recent boom in Polish economy is due to a lot of foreign investment fueled by cheap labor and educated citizens. If the cheap educated labor takes a dive, so does Poland. Also, don't forget: industrialized countries can hire from outside the country to fill spots if need be, but who comes to Poland from the West to work for a Polish company after finishing college so they can sit in a 35sq. meter apt. and make 2000zl a month, or 700 USD. For those that do come from other countries, it's on a short term contractual basis, anywhere between 1 and 3 years, and they're getting paid the same salary they were making when they left their home country, not to mention hooked up with an apt. or house, company car, etc.. Google, Toyota, 3M, Hewlitt Packard......I have taught students from all these companies, I know what is going on.

I teach all age groups in Poland and it's interesting how different age groups tend to think quite similarly about their country. For the most part, beyond around 30 years old, they mostly say they will not leave Poland, or at least THINK they won't. BUT, the younger generations, most certainly the 15-25 year old age group....many of them routinely talk about how the only thing that holds them back from leaving Poland is family, and if they had an opportunity to work in Germany, France, England....and often times the USA, they'd do it.

Life / Do expats living in Poland speak Polish? [233]


it's no different with polish people. i routinely hear how polish people speak with incorrect grammar, do not decline words properly, mess up verb conjugations, etc. etc.

if i had a nickel for every time i have heard, "don't worry, polish grammar is difficult even for polish people."

USA, Canada / REFUSED A HOLIDAY VISA TO THE U.S CAUSE IM POLISH [323]

in all honesty, how many americans do you know that have lived in poland for 20 years.

Life / Do expats living in Poland speak Polish? [233]

KLove,

I'd say those are some good observations.

Someone once said to me, a native Polish/fluent English speaker, "in order to speak English, you need to know "this" much in order to say "this" much (putting her hands shoulder width apart, and then moving them in just a little bit indicating the second "this") but to speak Polish, one needs to know "THIS" much in order to say "this" much," putting her hands at full wing span apart and then moving them to only about 8 inches apart to indicate the 2nd "this".

My experience was much the same. My first year learning Polish was mainly learning cases/structure, and after 1 year, I could barely say anything but I knew how to use cases rather well. By year 2, fluency started to build, but it's still, for me, a slow process even now, but at least faster than in the beginning.

Saying Polish is "basic" is tempting for many native English speakers. I understand how it can seem offensive to Poles, but at times, it's hard to resist saying it. Time after time, an English speaker studying Polish goes to the dictionary over and over finding a different English word being translated to the same word in Polish. Along with that, English is not only larger than Polish (sheer number of words), it's larger than any language by far which again gives one the impression that Polish simply isn't as sophisticated of a language as English.

History / Polish hatred towards Jews... [1290]


that old gag. out of curiosity, where are you from dear lad?

it will never cease to amaze me how much the world loves to talk about the Americans' poor English, especially the Brits. why is it that people never mention Irish or Scottish English? You think those dialects are flawless?

The last Irish guy I spoke to said to me, "I am in Poland 4 months now". not kidding.

Language / Collection of learning resources for learning the Polish language [129]

i didn't read through the entire thread, but I have a question:

anyone know of good exercise books? i really enjoy exercise books, but they just don't seem to have them for polish, at least not that I can find. basically, I'm looking for something like a Murphy's book for learning Polish.

i spend so much time in the classroom teaching along with tramming, busing, walking, etc., that I have limited opportunities to speak polish, so having an exercise book where I can at least improve my vocabulary grammar would be ideal, plus, I enjoy it.

USA, Canada / Where to buy Polish food in New Jersey? [157]

don't forget Europa in Jersey City, right on Jersey Avenue.

Life / Do expats living in Poland speak Polish? [233]

food for thought:

vistawide.com/languages/us_languages2.htm

if you still think Polish is of any use in America, see "0.7%"

another thing worth noting: of this 0.7%, the majority of them speak English, often times better than they speak Polish, most certainly those that were raised in the USA.


i most certainly "find language learning to be a valuable intellectual exercise", after all, I moved to Poland didn't I?.......I study Polish all the time. My points have been not whether or not I think language learning is good or bad, but specifically the usefulness of Polish outside Poland in general, along with it's usefulness in America. this is how the conversation got started.

Life / Do expats living in Poland speak Polish? [233]


this, if anything, proves my point.

do you know why Americans do not see the value in learning a foreign language? because it simply isn't a necessity. if you had an MBA and a nice paying job in a major city in America, would you then spend the next 3-5 years taking classes in the evening for ....oh, I don't know.......a Chemistry degree? no. of course not. why do people not do that? because it's a waste of time and money.

you said Europeans realise the value in speaking other languages. let's concentrate on the word "value", because value is exactly what we're talking about, in every sense of the word. Europeans learn foreign languages because it's a necessity to communicate with anybody else outside their country's borders, and secondly, and often times more importantly, because without English, they can't get a job. here in Poland, if you're a post grad, 25 years old, and you apply for basically any job, if you cannot speak English, don't even bother applying. this is literally "value". you want a good job? speak English. which, as a result, makes it beneficial for one to go to class at night to learn it, pay money, spend the time, so on and so forth. Europe MUST learn languages. not because they think "it's a good thing to know, people should speak other languages...." but because they simply have to.


i would LOVE for you to fill me in on some examples of people in America getting nowhere because they can't speak Polish/Spanish/Italian. please enlighten me with all your vast experience on this particular matter.

Life / Do expats living in Poland speak Polish? [233]


always happy to be of service.