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Posts by pawian  

Joined: 30 May 2008 / Male ♂ 		Last Post: 19 Mar 2025
Threads: Total: 226 / In This Archive: 66
Posts: Total: 27458 / In This Archive: 5451 		From: Poe land
Speaks Polish?: Yes, but I prefer English
Interests: Everything funny

Displayed posts: 5517 / page 46 of 184
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pawian   
1 Feb 2019
Life / Poles against gay marriages. Really? [120]

There is no point quoting The Bible to us atheists

Oh, I am sorry, that`s because one poster combined conservatism with religion.

Like where the f***

Swearing usually suggests one is running out of reasonable arguments.
pawian   
1 Feb 2019
Life / Poles against gay marriages. Really? [120]

Liberals are beyond repair. The problem is that in the meantime they can drive good people insane.

Reading this, I see a good opportunity to offer another useful quote:
For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and everyone who humbles himself will be exalted.
pawian   
1 Feb 2019
Life / Poles against gay marriages. Really? [120]

Or the US, where sticking a penis into a 15-year-old, just an example to show that even modern societies have their prohibitions.

Equating the US law on sex with an underage person with death penalty for adult gay sex isn`t the wisest thing to do.
pawian   
1 Feb 2019
Life / Poles against gay marriages. Really? [120]

being a classical liberal, you did a splendid switch from my "no financial benefits" to "electric shocks"

I didn`t make any switch. You said:

What worked for 10,000 years is now summarily dismissed as not "progressive" enough.

so I gave you examples how it still works in some countries where gays are persecuted and executed.
pawian   
1 Feb 2019
Life / Poles against gay marriages. Really? [120]

One interesting observation is that the conservative, tradition-oriented posters here suffer from a quite narrowed perception of things around them. Is it somehow connected with their inclination to put limits and restrictions on other people? And as a result, they seem to also limit themselves in discerning all possibilities that life may offer.

I have noticed it a few times in this thread, here is another.

liberals say

Have you ever thought that tolerance and acceptance doesn`t necessarily mean one is liberal? How about a true Christian who really wants to follow a few wise pieces of advice?

E.g.,
A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.
Let the one among you who is without sin be the first to cast a stone.

etc
pawian   
1 Feb 2019
Life / Poles against gay marriages. Really? [120]

. What worked for 10,000 years is now summarily dismissed as not "progressive" enough.

Especially things which happen to gays in some countries are not progressive enough:
China - electric shocks
theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2015/oct/10/unreported-world-chinas-gay-shock-therapy-review-channel-4

Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Nigeria and a few others - death penalty
theguardian.com/world/2011/sep/07/iran-executes-men-homosexuality-charges

That`s roughly over 2 billion people. I already suggested you stop sticking to your narrow perspective.
pawian   
1 Feb 2019
Life / Poles against gay marriages. Really? [120]

If Poland embraces homosexuality the nation will fall.

I see. What do you propose to do with gays? An average estimate is that 3% population is gay. In Poland it is roughly 1 million people.
pawian   
1 Feb 2019
Life / Poles against gay marriages. Really? [120]

why we, the taxpayers, should spend one damn dime on their benefits

I don`t need to explain because another poster already did:

That gay is subsidising benefits for child heathcare, school, 500 plus, etc

And still another anti-gay marriage poster claims this

They are treated equally.

If so, they are entitled to receive gay marriage benefits too, like in heterosexual marriages

Tu jest POLSKA nie Bruksela,

But this claim doesn`t seem true in view of poll results presented in the first post - namely, Poles are adopting Brussels` point of view. What are you going to do about it? How can you stop them?
pawian   
31 Jan 2019
Life / Poles against gay marriages. Really? [120]

Neither does it define the gender of uncles, ants, brothers, and sisters. Or does it?

And, what`s the point of it?
pawian   
31 Jan 2019
Life / Poles against gay marriages. Really? [120]

Gay behavior was once sick, too

And gays paid a huge price for that. They were persecuted, prosecuted, murdered. Still are in some countries, I just read about Chechnyan gays who vanish without trace.

The liberal approach in developed democracies has been adopted in order to alleviate the life of people who haven`t chosen their orientation but were born with it. What should gay people do upon discovering their nature? Commit a suicide? Go to the mountain woods and stay there?

Besides, don`t you understand that hostility bears only more hostility? One day certain influential people decided that it is time to put an end to aggression against gays because it only provokes bad emotions and conflicts which spoil the atmosphere in the country. Isn`t life better when you live among happy people?

Now imagine you were born gay - how would you feel if the society rejected your attempts to lead a normal happy life?

Hence my words "live and let live."
pawian   
31 Jan 2019
Life / Poles against gay marriages. Really? [120]

There is no such thing as "gay marriage" for the same reason why there is no such thing as square wheel,

Hmm, I still have doubts why not.

English definition says nothing about a man or a woman.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage
Marriage, also called matrimony or wedlock, is a socially or ritually recognised union between spouses that establishes rights and obligations between those spouses, as well as between them and any resulting biological or adopted children and affinity (in-laws and other family through marriage)

Polish definition suggests "mostly between a man and woman."
pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ma%C5%82%C5%BCe%C5%84stwo
pawian   
31 Jan 2019
Life / Poles against gay marriages. Really? [120]

How do you hurt a dead person?

It seems you can`t grasp a bit wider perspective. When I wrote about hurting somebody, I didn`t mean the dead body but its relatives who will most certainly object to your immoral acts with it. That is why such acts were declared punishable by law centuries ago.

How about incest with a female after hysterectomy?

What`s the point of this argument and its connection with the discussion? I am trying to figure out but I can`t. Are you sure you haven`t been carried away by your emotions?
pawian   
31 Jan 2019
Life / Poles against gay marriages. Really? [120]

Here in The UK people are loathe to espouse right wing or conservative views to pollsters,Poles even more so.

Really? I didn`t know that about Poles hiding their conservative preferences.
pawian   
31 Jan 2019
Life / Poles against gay marriages. Really? [120]

"Gay marriage" is to rip off private insurance companies and the taxpayers.

That sounds very emphatic and decisive. Do you suggest that most or even all gay "marriages" are purely motivated by financial reasons?
pawian   
31 Jan 2019
Life / Poles against gay marriages. Really? [120]

Can you list all the perversions covered by that noble rule?

Sorry, no, I am not such an expert.

Incest, bestiality? How about necrophilia? Why not let guys marry a corps?

Hmm, let me think. The phenomena you mentioned are not really ethical because they involve hurting a person/people or animal.

In case of gay marriages/weddings/partnerships etc nobody is hurt because they do it out of choice.
pawian   
31 Jan 2019
Life / Poles against gay marriages. Really? [120]

Most Poles will not share their true opinions with pollsters. So their "facts" are actually worthless.

Do you mean the interviewer effect? When respondents modify their answers depending on the interviewer`s style and personality? E.g., a gay interviewer of nice appearance and demeanour is sent to poll people and he/she doesn`t keep his/her preferences secret. Then people are prone to answer positively in order to satisfy the gay interviewer`s expectations.
pawian   
31 Jan 2019
Life / Poles against gay marriages. Really? [120]

There is no such thing as "gay marriage"/ the purpose of marriage is to protect kids

So do you want to call it gay weddings and living together? I don`t care how we call it, because we are talking about facts, not words.
pawian   
31 Jan 2019
Life / Poles against gay marriages. Really? [120]

conservative are coming round to the feeling that they should be free to think for themselves.

Simply speaking, live and let live.
Isn`t it one of the aspects of British lifestyle? Knowing that the recent Polish emigration is the highest in Britain (of all European countries), we might be tempted to presume that the changes in Polish opinions on gay marriage are partly caused by the influence of British culture.

70% British accept gay marriages brin.ac.uk/figures/attitudes-towards-gay-rights/

Just a random supposition, not necessarily true.
pawian   
31 Jan 2019
Life / Poles against gay marriages. Really? [120]

Some forum members, while discussing Polish issues, love to exploit certain ideas which they treat as dogmas. Unfortunately, they often talk about things of the past. It is obvious they haven`t been in touch with real Poland and Poles for years.

One of such outdated beliefs is gay marriage acceptance in Poland.

Examples

Majority of Poles say straight up they don`t want gay marriage

There you can enjoy gay marraoge, Polish people aren`t interested in that nonsense.

Unfortunately for the posters who claim such facts, Polish public opinion on the issue is rapidly changing. I mean acceptance is higher each year.

Read the articles about surveys

2013 - 40% accept gay partnerships, 30% gay marriages
wyborcza.pl/1,75398,14745603,Polski_rekord_tolerancji__40_proc__z_nas_akceptuje.html

2017 - 52% accept gay partnership, 38% gay marriage.
tvn24.pl/wiadomosci-z-kraju,3/sondaz-ipsos-wiekszosc-polakow-popiera-zwiazki-partnerskie,752514.html

2018 - 60% accept gay marriages
noizz.pl/lgbt/polacy-w-sondazu-ibris-za-uszanowaniem-malzenstw-jednoplciowych/72s25zr

In case you tried to accuse the OP of a biased choice of sources, I should explain that the survey results correspond to my experience of discussing the matter with average Poles. More and more of my acquaintances simply don`t care about gay marriages - they think it is a private business of people involved.

There is one thing which Poles are unanimous about, though - most of them (80%) reject children for gay marriages. Will this attitude change one day? Interesting.
pawian   
29 Jan 2019
News / Ultra nationalist protest at death camp in Poland - serious mistake? [146]

No other people are talked about nearly to the same extent that jews

I have already written it twice - who forbids Poles to do the same? Let`s follow the Jewish example, instead of death camp protests.

I have nothing against someone write a book about Polish suffering industry one day.

So, protest organisers, supporters and all radicals, get down to work and propagate the Polish cause, but without spitting into anybody`s face, OK?
pawian   
29 Jan 2019
News / Ultra nationalist protest at death camp in Poland - serious mistake? [146]

The whole point was to draw attention to the poles suffering, hence why holocaust remembrance day was chosen as opposed to any other day....

No, the real intention of the protest organisers was to hurt Jews for their alleged sins like illegitimate taking control of the world`s memory over the WW2 suffering of the Polish nation.

If they had wanted to propagate the Polish cause, they would have done it in a different way.
pawian   
29 Jan 2019
News / Ultra nationalist protest at death camp in Poland - serious mistake? [146]

No, the real intention of the protest organisers was to hurt Jews for their alleged sins like illegitimate taking control of the world`s memory over the WW2 suffering of the Polish nation.

Proportion shmortion. 3 mil = 3 mil.

Sorry, no. 3 million on both sides seems balanced only on the surface, it is 90% to 10% which says it all. I am really amazed you don`t get it. You can`t be an ethnic Pole because they are much more intelligent.
pawian   
29 Jan 2019
News / Ultra nationalist protest at death camp in Poland - serious mistake? [146]

, in Germany in 2018 there were countless small and bigger neo-nazi marches that you weren't informed nor aware of.

Did they take place on Holocaust Rememberance or similar Day and near a death camp where Jews or Poles perished? I still don`t understand what you are trying to convey.
pawian   
29 Jan 2019
News / Ultra nationalist protest at death camp in Poland - serious mistake? [146]

your maths is all wrong.

how come? it is simple maths.

Prewar Jewish population in Poland - ab.3.2 million. ab. 2.8 millions perished, mostly due to extermination.

ab 3 million perished, ab. 2 million in direct extermination..

I reckon that's roughly 3 million each,which is where the original 6 million figure came from.

Yes, So what? It is still roughly 90% to 10% of direct extermination losses if we check the ethnicity of prewar population of Poland.

No one disputes the above

Actually, some guys do. Read all posts here.

Patriotism stands for love of your country [your land]. Nationalism stands for love of your nation

Sorry, it is all the same to me. As a patriot, you may love both your country and nation. The only difference is the methods used. Nationalism is more aggressive by nature. As a nationalist, you are intent on fight and pressure, while patriots resort to cooperation and dialogue.

you were alerted by the media who grabbed your attention

What difference does it make if I was alerted or not? We are talking about the fact which reached us somehow. no matter how. What is your point?
pawian   
29 Jan 2019
News / Ultra nationalist protest at death camp in Poland - serious mistake? [146]

The hidden Holocaust.

Nobody forbids Poles to inform the world about their WW2 suffering. But, for God`s sake, not through such acts! Do people who accept such methods and even suggest "more pressure", don`t realise it leads nowhere and even makes the situation worse? I am so amazed.

looks like history is being redrawn pointing to the poles as the cause of all this.

When will people understand that history is rewritten because of such disgraceful acts?

BTW, to all posters -
ethnic Polish WW2 suffering was enormous, but certainly not as tragic as Polish Jews`. It seems that some posters need to have their memories or knowledge refreshed with the fact that 90% Polish Jews perished in extermination, while ethnic Polish losses were about 10% of the population. The comparison makes it obvious why Jewish Holocaust is more conspicuous - Know Your Proportion, Mr Mocium.
pawian   
29 Jan 2019
News / Ultra nationalist protest at death camp in Poland - serious mistake? [146]

What I mean is that I'm a Polish nationalist and to me Poland and Polish national interest is the most important one.

So is to me, but I prefer to call it patriotism.

We didn't build those camps nor run them. And our grandfathers have fought with those who erected them

But all that becomes irrelevant to the world because what counts is that somebody protests on such a day in such a place. You seem to be unaware how modern media work today - stereotypes and cliches are their favourite means. And it turns into a vicious circle - the more you try to propagate your cause, combating stereotypes of Polish antisemitism, the further you are from achieving it, because such acts as death camp protest are not an accepted method of such a fight.

Don't get distracted by irrelevant events and small provocations

No. First there are irrelevant acts like throwing a stone into the shop window, then there is a fire, and eventually the owner is sent to a death camp. I am really amazed you don`t know the nature of such a sequence of events.

And don't become a victim of this moral blackmail

Nobody is blackmailing me here. I feel the protest was a disgrace, it comes from my convictions and character. Similarly, I don`t come to people`s houses and spit into their soup during their lunchtime because once my parents told me it is improper. Is it so hard to understand?
pawian   
29 Jan 2019
News / Ultra nationalist protest at death camp in Poland - serious mistake? [146]

Of course a huge chunk poles are racists, xenophobes, homophobes, etc. Not apologizing for it either!

Yes, it might be true, but we should regret it greatly because such attitudes only prove that someone who professes them is narrow-minded and pestered with inferiority complex. It`s bad because living among such people is quite depressing for an open-minded, tolerant, self-confident person.
pawian   
29 Jan 2019
News / Ultra nationalist protest at death camp in Poland - serious mistake? [146]

Till poles get equal recognition were gonna keep the pressure on. Its time to end the jews monopoly.

The more pressure you will keep on in the style of death camp protest, the more antisemitic you will sound and look. Then, forget about ending anybody`s monopoly - you will be only equated with perpetrators.

And don`t mix all Poles into it - remember that guys like you get 1% votes at national elections.